How to cope with a town home

[Fjcatherine]

Hello everyone,

My wife and I are considering getting a leaf. We have a few questions that we'd like to ask the forum to help us with our decision.

1. Because we live in a town home and will be using L1 charger (slow) to charge the leaf, approximately how much does it charge after 12-13 hrs of charging? 70% 75% ? We've considered getting a 240v plug installed by the door and use the "upgraded EVSE" L2 charger, but having to deal with the HOA is a real pain. We only drive approximately 50 miles per day.

2. How long is the cord of the L1 charger? Since we are going to plug the charger inside our home, it needs to reach the vehicle.

3. Lastly, anyone here in the same situation as us? Anyone live in a condo/town home or apt? How did you work it out?

Any help would be greatly appreciated. Please help us get rid of our SUV :-(

 

[planet4ever]

Welcome aboard!

First, I'd like to encourage you to pick a more useful thread title. Since you started the thread you can edit the first post and change the title. Perhaps something like "L1 charging limits" or "How to cope with a town home".

Second, the easy part: The unit that comes with the car has a 25 foot cable between the box and the connector to the car.

Third, the lesson: It is not a "Charger". The charger is inside the car. You can call it an EVSE, or charging equipment, or a charging dock, or a charging cable. The box is really just a big fancy switch that gets house current safely into the car, where the car's charger converts it from 120v or 240v alternating current to roughly 400v direct current that the battery can use.

Fourth, and some here may disagree with me, I think if you really do drive 50 miles a day you will not be at all happy with "trickle" charging. IF you can trickle charge at work it can be done; otherwise I certainly wouldn't want to try it.

Finally, do a Google search on this site for condo, and you will find quite a few threads. Or go directly to Google, and try this search:
condo site:mynissanleaf.com

Ray

 

[Fjcatherine]

Thank you. for the answer and advice.

You said " I think if you really do drive 50 miles a day you will not be at all happy with "trickle" charging. IF you can trickle charge at work it can be done; otherwise I certainly wouldn't want to try it."
Do you think the leaf will not have enough " juice" after a 12-13 hr charge? I'm hoping there will be enough range each 12-13 hr charge.

 

[ztanos]

Why would the HOA have an issue with you adding a dryer port in your garage? This is all you would need for the upgraded unit to be useful.

Edit: Just re-read and realized he never mentioned a garage.

 

[Randy]

In several cases I've seen, the HOA pays for some convenience outlets in the public or common areas that might include the garages or carports, especially if they are located in a much different place than the living area. It can be difficult to wire a garage to a living space meter that is hundreds of feet away in a multi-unit dwelling...

 

[keydiver]

Do you own or rent? Do you have assigned parking spaces? Where are they in relation to your home?

 

[rslatkin]

I live in a townhouse and our parking lot is separate from the houses. I got permission from the HOA to have a 240V outlet installed in the parking lot using an existing circuit that was originally going to be used for lighting but never was. I'm estimating how much electricity I use and reimbursing the HOA for the cost.

 

[DaveinOlyWA]

Thank you. for the answer and advice.

You said " I think if you really do drive 50 miles a day you will not be at all happy with "trickle" charging. IF you can trickle charge at work it can be done; otherwise I certainly wouldn't want to try it."
Do you think the leaf will not have enough " juice" after a 12-13 hr charge? I'm hoping there will be enough range each 12-13 hr charge.

Ray is correct and lemme tell ya why. i think you will resent the Leaf when L1 charging restricts your usage to commuting only. i found (i charged with L1 only for 4 months) that the real value of the Leaf is its SHORT range utility. the 2 mile roundtrips to Safeway, Papa Murphy's, etc.

take your Prius (or whatever you drive) mine averages 48-51 MPG. but on a trip to Safeway and back, the performance is in the mid 20's...ya that's right. a 100% drop in efficiency.

the Leaf takes that in stride. there is nothing to warm up. so a trip of a mile or 20 miles, your "per mile efficiency" is the same. but if you need to charge 12 hours a day to make it to work the next day, you lose that option.

another thing. the Average mileage on the Prius went up about 1.4 miles per gallon after we got the Leaf. not much, but still statistically significant

now, would i recommend you not buy a Leaf?? NEVER!! because it "can" work for you now and i think we need to realize that a paradigm shift in EV thinking is coming. i am guessing you will have much more viable options within 2-3 years.

now, would you want to wait? i think not. 50 miles a day commuting over a 20 mpg SUV (probably wishful thinking there!) equates to $150 to $300 savings in fuel costs. (my Prius cost $94.55 in May to drive 1150 miles while the Leaf cost $30 something to drive 1350 miles!)

 

[garygid]

Roughly 20 to 21 hours at L1 for a full charge, so roughly 5%
charge per hour:
10 hr = 50%
12 hr = 60%
13 hr = 65%

So, is 12 to 13 hours enough?
Depends upon how "gently" you drive those 50 miles,
and a lot of weather conditions.

On weekends, and occasionally weekdays,
you will WANT to drive more ...
so you are likely to want more "juice", at least sometimes.

Others have found solutions with their HOA, but in some cases
it took months of investigation, suggestion, and compromise.

 

[smkettner]

My first five months I drove almost 50 miles per day on L1 only. You will feel like you are charging near continuously.

I used a 6' appliance extension cord with #14 wire. I don't think you will have and problem with a longer extension but verify #12 wire.
I would not drape an extension across any public walkway on a regular basis.

 

[amtoro]

For the first 3 months after buying the LEAF, we lived in an apartment complex and came to an agreement with the management team to allow us to install a circuit from the breaker box to a surface-mounted outlet inside the garage we were renting; I bought all the materials and paid for labor.

Before actually deciding on renting that garage, and before buying the LEAF, we had several suggestions for the management people. some examples were:

1. A short, surface-mounted circuit from a breaker box on the side of the garage building and a reserved parking spot next to it.
2. A circuit from our meter to a single-breaker box, to a pole or bollard on the side of the curb and have the EVSE mounted on it.
3. Same as 2, but with a weather-proof outlet.

After they consulted with their lawyers about liability and insurance issues, they recommended 1. or, as we ultimately did, an outlet inside one of the garages.

As for cost, we agreed that I'd read the usage from CarWings at the end of every month and add the cost of the electricity (@ $0.12/kWh) to the garage rent.

When we moved out, I had the outlet removed and took my breaker, cable, etc with me as per the initial agreement.

 

[Spies]

Would it be possible for you to use a Quick 220 along with an EVSE upgrade?

http://www.quick220.com/" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;
http://evseupgrade.com/" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

 

[garygid]

An extension cord from inside the house to under the LEAF's hood might be possible, if it can be done safely.

Then, put the Nissan EVSE (modified or not) under the hood,
in the space aft of the 12v battery.

Carefully lead the J1772 cord and plug out to plug into
the L1/L2 charging socket on the LEAF. Done carefully, the hood can close, I believe.

Then, nothing dangerous (except the cord/wire itself) is exposed to public abuse.

Getting the wire to the car is usually the bigger problem.

A socket, or breaker, socket, and the EVSE could all be inside one "small" locked box, even when the car is charging. For extra safety, there could be an external OFF switch, and an On/Off breaker inside the house.

 

[garygid]

Get proposed solutions from the HOA, the Public Utility, and a competent electrician.

Find out what, if anything, the HOA might consider acceptable.

 

[amtoro]

Would it be possible for you to use a Quick 220 along with an EVSE upgrade?

http://www.quick220.com/" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;
http://evseupgrade.com/" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

I doubt they will have access to tho 120V outlets on different circuits without creating a significant tripping hazard as it is outdoors and in a public area.

 

[cracovian]

We drive more than 50 miles a day, I've had the LEAF since November, I have a big ass house and a garage, I even upgraded my EVSE but I don't have a 240V outlet close by since it wouldn't be in a convenient place, and all I do is trickle charge it and I'm very happy. I plug in downtown on weekend trips to the museums since it's free but I don't need it technically either.

You only need 8 hours to get it up to 50 miles (~6 miles an hour), so I don't know why other people see a problem with that. I say let the Europeans keep their 240 volts and we'll stick to our superior 120

 

[planet4ever]

I don't see any way you can get more than about 8.6kWh into the battery in 8 hours at 120v. (8 hours * 120v * 12A * 0.75 efficiency = 8640 watthours.) If you can drive 50 miles on 8.6kWh then you can drive 120 miles on 21kWh, which makes you a better hypermiler than 99.9% of the people posting on this board.

Ray

 

[Nubo]

We drive more than 50 miles a day, I've had the LEAF since November, I have a big ass house and a garage, I even upgraded my EVSE but I don't have a 240V outlet close by since it wouldn't be in a convenient place, and all I do is trickle charge it and I'm very happy. I plug in downtown on weekend trips to the museums since it's free but I don't need it technically either.

You only need 8 hours to get it up to 50 miles (~6 miles an hour), so I don't know why other people see a problem with that. I say let the Europeans keep their 240 volts and we'll stick to our superior 120

It depends on your driving style and requirements. Since it's working for you, I assume most of your mileage is on lower-speed roads. For someone driving freeways at 65 mph, 50 miles is going to account for a lot more charging to keep up with consumption.

The Brits think we're all a bit "daft" in our insistence on hobbling ourselves with half the normal voltage

 

[cracovian]

50 miles/day is 18K miles/year which is over the national average - I doubt many of you cover more than that but regular highway driving would probably require faster charging.

I obviously plug it in for longer than 8 hours and we tend to drive locally - it works for me and it stops at 80% at night way before we need it. One hour of charge does add 6 miles to the clock, so I guess both the LEAF and I are awesome like that

 

[Herm]

The Brits think we're all a bit "daft" in our insistence on hobbling ourselves with half the normal voltage

The original marketing for our electric grid involved electrocuting animals as a demonstration of the hazards.. apparently it scared the public.