How should Nissan respond to dropping capacity?

[mwalsh]

Thread to outline what you think Nissan should do for those who appear to have significant premature pack aging. And for that matter those of us who feel that just maybe our packs won't last as long as we'd envisaged too.

 

[DaveinOlyWA]

i think we will find out the answer in Dec when battery module supplies open up

 

[Weatherman]

In the meantime, what might help is to quit dismissing it as "normal".

 

[EdmondLeaf]

Fullfill what was promised many times by Nissan, for me personal promise was: 70-80% after 8 years and 100KM. Sure that was not included in warranty that we got. For me word or message from high ranking company representative so far was more important/had more weight than what was in the warranty book

 

[DaveinOlyWA]

it is obvious to me that

1) Nissan is stalling
2) they already knew what was going to happen
3) they do have a plan that i am sure will be acceptable to all involved but its simply not ready yet

...ok, since you asked, the reason i think its obvious is

their response.

1) they act like its no big deal when any idiot (ya you marketing!!) knows it is

2) their lukewarm response is trying (and failing) to give the impression that immediate action would be some sort of mistake

i am guessing now that they are trying to make sure that this story does not make the national news... we see what happens

 

[mkjayakumar]

Why are we starting multiple threads on the same topic? Isn't there another thread titled, "How should Nissan respond to dropping capacity in Phoenix?" with 62 pages of comments..?

http://www.mynissanleaf.com/viewtopic.php?f=4&t=8921" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

 

[TomT]

#1: Definitely!
#2: Perhaps... You would think that accelerated testing would have easily and clearly showed that this was to be expected.
#3: I'm not nearly that optimistic.

it is obvious to me that

1) Nissan is stalling
2) they already knew what was going to happen
3) they do have a plan that i am sure will be acceptable to all involved but its simply not ready yet

 

[DaveinOlyWA]

Why are we starting multiple threads on the same topic? Isn't there another thread titled, "How should Nissan respond to dropping capacity in Phoenix?" with 62 pages of comments..?

http://www.mynissanleaf.com/viewtopic.php?f=4&t=8921" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

why are we starting multiple threads on the same car?

**edit**
ok, the first thread addressed people losing a bar. this one seems to be concerned with people who have lost 3 bars. i personally think it be easier to sort thru this one than the 62 page monstrosity you referenced.

 

[palmermd]

why are we starting multiple threads on the same car?

Isn't every thread in this forum about the same car? The Leaf.

 

[DaveinOlyWA]

why are we starting multiple threads on the same car?

Isn't every thread in this forum about the same car? The Leaf.

i edited

 

[mwalsh]

Why are we starting multiple threads on the same topic? Isn't there another thread titled, "How should Nissan respond to dropping capacity in Phoenix?" with 62 pages of comments..?

http://www.mynissanleaf.com/viewtopic.php?f=4&t=8921" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

That thread has gotten somewhat out of control, with folks mostly posting about what they are doing to try and mitigate the loss for themselves. I want this one to be purely about the steps you'd like Nissan to take. That other thread also has had no new activity for the last week.

 

[adric22]

Please.. if I see one more thread on here about battery degradation I think I'm going to have to find a new forum somewhere. I hate to say it, but I'm pretty sick of the topic.

Until there is some actual news on the subject from Nissan or elsewhere, quit posting new variations on the same darn threads.

Yes... Keep tracking those that have lost capacity. Yes.. Keep talking about it in the threads we already have (so that I can ignore them).

Stop the insanity. I'm tired of 9 out of 10 new threads being about lost capacity in some form or another.

 

[mwalsh]

Stop the insanity. I'm tired of 9 out of 10 new threads being about lost capacity in some form or another.

And yet you keep clicking in?

This is an important issue to a lot of people. And, just as happens on the TV, it's going to fill a lot of the news cycle until something else happens. And, honestly, I don't see a lot of new stuff happening in the BEV arena until the next year's Auto Show cycle starts.

 

[DaveEV]

Mod note: I merged the old / new "How should Nissan respond" threads together - they're clearly the same topic.

 

[mwalsh]

Mod note: I merged the old / new "How should Nissan respond" threads together - they're clearly the same topic.

Fine. But let's stay on topic from here in. Eh?

 

[Volusiano]

Stop the insanity. I'm tired of 9 out of 10 new threads being about lost capacity in some form or another.

And yet you keep clicking in?

This is an important issue to a lot of people. And, just as happens on the TV, it's going to fill a lot of the news cycle until something else happens. And, honestly, I don't see a lot of new stuff happening in the BEV arena until the next year's Auto Show cycle starts.

+1. It should be an important issue to people not in the hot states, too, because it will affect retail values overall as well because it will affect Nissan's viability to become successful in the EV market if they lose trust from buyers.

For me personally, I just LOVE to keep hearing over and over and from more and more people chiming in about how they're starting to lose capacity themselves. Of course not because I wish it on anybody, but because it keeps the spotlight on the first key issue that will test Nissan's credibility as an EV car brand that people can trust and want to buy from.

Even if you're not from the hot states, would you still really want to buy another EV from Nissan anymore if you see that Nissan continues to refuse to address this issue? How do you know if Nissan won't refuse to address other key issues that may come up in the future that will affect YOUR Leaf as well?

 

[kolmstead]

One of the things that really bothers me is the big fuss Nissan made about battery life warranty... remember the survey that they asked folks who ordered early to fill out? And the announcement that Nissan was listening... that the warranty was going to be the same as the Volt's; eight years or 100K miles.

And then, right before our cars showed up, we learned that the warranty did not cover capacity. But that we could expect 80% at five years. Those of us in hot climates would see more loss, but no examples were given.

What I want is what most of us expected.. a battery capacity warranty, with pro-rated replacement when the car's range becomes too limited to be of use to me. Pro-rated based on time and miles, of course.

I am specifically NOT interested in a trade-in allowance on another Nissan product. If my LEAF experience ends badly, I'll never own another Nissan. I tried to trade mine off last week, before I lost the first bar, but trade-in allowance was too low. ($17K)

 

[palmermd]

I still think the best solution would be a "Nissan Leaf Loyalty Program". Here is how it would work. Leaf owners who have a 2011 Leaf can upgrade to the 2013 model with little cost to the owner for the trade in. This would give the owner a new vehicle that not only has full capacity, but also has many of the other great improvements such as heated seats and steering wheel, improved cabin heater, and optional charger size increase (obviously this would be an added cost). If the 2013 model has some solution to the "hot battery" issue noted with the capacity loss, then it is a win-win. The car owners will get a new car with all the upgrades, and not have to worry about the battery any longer, and Nissan does not have to address the battery capacity warranty issue. The key to the whole thing is Nissan having some sort of solution for the hot battery degradation. Without that portion, the issue will just resurface, but with it, it seems to be a win all around. Nissan can then put the new style packs into the cars traded in and sell them used with new packs. It not only helps us with the 2011 cars, but also in effect helps sales as the new cars would be sales and they could also sell the used cars which puts lots of Leaf's on the road. The program could run for two years, such that the 2012 cars can be traded in for 2014 model cars as well.

Another possible option for this program, in the event that they do not have a solution for the hot battery in time, would be to allow all 2011 and 2012 leafs which were purchased to be converted to the lease which was available at the time of purchase so that the owner will have a guaranteed sales price at the end of 3 years that the lease offers.

 

[mwalsh]

I think we all had expectations for how long our packs would last. I had what I thought was a realistic expectation and an optimistic expectation. My realistic expectation was 5 years of daily commuting without having to resort to half-way charging. It's an expectation that I still hope the car will meet, and if it goes beyond that...well that would just be fine. Even if it didn't go beyond that, I still anticipated that my employer would let me charge at work for the trip home OR pack rebuilding companies, run by entrepreneurial types seeing a market opportunity, would spring up.

I think the response to the AZ folks needs to be better than it has been. I think WE need to know what's going on with these packs. And I think WE need some level of reassurance going forward.

Nobody says that it's easy being an early adopter, but we shouldn't be hung out to dry either. I was thinking that a replacement pack at Nissan's cost might be one of the options available down the road for first generation owners. I'm also hoping that the cost for replacement packs by then will be in thousands of dollars range, rather than tens of thousands.

 

[GaslessInSeattle]

...I'm tired of 9 out of 10 new threads being about lost capacity in some form or another.

IMHO, while I agree on one hand, I also kind of feel like until Nissan comes up with a reasonable response, it's only natural that more and more of the threads on this site will be about the biggest threat to the current EV movement to date, devastating range loss and zero manufacturer culpability. If Nissan continues to botch this, it will have a devastating impact on sales, and not just of Leafs, and most importantly to me, resale values. This sucks, but don't blame the messenger, it's Nissan you should be frustrated with.