Group buy for JuiceBox EVSE.

[inphoenix]

Anyone looking to buy an EVSE soon?

If you would like to join a group buy for Juice Box EVSE please respond to this thread or PM me for the group buy code. If you have used this product or would recommend it please leave a comment as that would help some to make up their mind.

The EVSE will be ordered directly from https://www.emotorwerks.com/ and will be shipped free (within continental US).

In addition you will get
1. A discount on the EVSE of your choice (8% or more depending on how many we purchase. Minimum 10 purchases required).
2. An adpater for free (valued at $39) http://www.emotorwerks.com/products/online-store/54-juicebox-adapters-input-cables.

Disclaimer: I am not associated with emotorwerks/JuiceBox. Just a newbie who thinks I was helped by members to make the right choice and trying to give it back to the forum.

Please feel free to share on other EV forums, your local EV Owner facebook page or email groups. Thanks.

EDIT: Based on the feedback from some other members about this device not being UL listed, I called my insurance company and they confirmed the coverage for any unforeseen circumstances. Per them, the UL listing does not matter for residential electrical appliances. Please call your insurance company if you have any doubts.

 

[srl99]

Why not a group buy for a UL listed EVSE? Why expose yourself?

 

[inphoenix]

Why not a group buy for a UL listed EVSE? Why expose yourself?

It is my understanding that they are in the process to be UL listed and a few months away from it.

 

[QueenBee]

Why not a group buy for a UL listed EVSE? Why expose yourself?

It is my understanding that they are in the process to be UL listed and a few months away from it.

Yeah, but the one you buy today will not be UL listed and may be missing the changes that allowed them to pass UL listing.

The Clipper Creek HCS-40P at 32 amps is only $589.00 + shipping with three warranty.

 

[srl99]

Why not a group buy for a UL listed EVSE? Why expose yourself?

It is my understanding that they are in the process to be UL listed and a few months away from it.

This has been the story for months. Seems like there's agreement about buying a UL listed EVSE (probably the highest draw electric device in your house) - so buy one that's UL listed, there are plenty of choices.

 

[inphoenix]

While I can respect the "agreement" you two had about "exposing youself" by not buying a UL listed EVSE, I decided to call my insurance company. They confirmed that whether or not I use a UL listed electrical device in my home, if there is an unfortunate incident, I'll be covered.

I do appreciate your input as it made me do the due diligence that I should've done in first place.

 

[QueenBee]

While I can respect the "agreement" you two had about "exposing youself" by not buying a UL listed EVSE, I decided to call my insurance company. They confirmed that whether or not I use a UL listed electrical device in my home, if there is an unfortunate incident, I'll be covered.

I do appreciate your input as it made me do the due diligence that I should've done in first place.

Yeah, definitely don't let that myth be the reason to not buy something that is not NRTL listed.

 

[inphoenix]

Yeah, definitely don't let that myth be the reason to not buy something that is not NRTL listed.

I am too new here to know the background of various forum members, their believes, affiliations, motives and (hidden) agendas. You made your point clear in first post itself so the last comment was uncalled for.

Let's agree to disagree on this "exposing yourself" by non listing of UL/NRTL "myth". My order for a Juice Box has been placed. I believe it is a well built product. The ratings and reviews are very good.

 

[QueenBee]

Yeah, definitely don't let that myth be the reason to not buy something that is not NRTL listed.

I am too new here to know the background of various forum members, their believes, affiliations, motives and (hidden) agendas. You made your point clear in first post itself so the last comment was uncalled for.

Let's agree to disagree on this "exposing yourself" by non listing of UL/NRTL "myth". My order for a Juice Box has been placed. I believe it is a well built product. The ratings and reviews are very good.

There is no myth around the fact that a product which is not NRTL listed is not certified and independently tested to meet the applicable requirements. If it had been certified and tested then why wouldn't it be listed? Unless you've seen the failed certification report you have no idea why it doesn't so you have no idea what exposure you are facing. These aren't myths just facts.

As far as motives/agendas go if you read through my posts I'm not trying to hide my agenda towards promoting safety, consumer awareness, and pointing out when companies are being deceptive or trying to sell 100% completely unsafe products like EMW has tried to do ( They tried to sell an EVSE without GFCI and sold Quick220s which were hardwired instead of using relays). Another example EMW still implies that their non-NRTL listed product qualifies for the Puget Sound Energy $500 rebate when in fact it doesn't since it's not NRTL listed. Additionally IMO EMW does not go far enough to highlight what impact not being NRTL has on things like meeting electrical codes and electrical inspections.

 

[inphoenix]

....if you read through my posts....

Appreciate the invite but I'd respectfully decline. This one thread is enough.

 

[pncguy]

I am curious: what made you go with the $499 JuiceBox instead of a $444 Siemens (http://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B00MFVI8UG/ref=s9_simh_gw_g60_i3_r?pf_rd_m=ATVPDKIKX0DER&pf_rd_s=desktop-1&pf_rd_r=17P86SXXZFMC0F6XKYZT&pf_rd_t=36701&pf_rd_p=2253014322&pf_rd_i=desktop) or the $549 Siemens (http://www.amazon.com/Siemens-VC30GRYU-Versicharge-Electric-Flexible/dp/B00MFVI92S/ref=pd_sim_60_3?ie=UTF8&dpID=41RoQ8pj8fL&dpSrc=sims&preST=_AC_UL160_SR101%2C160_&refRID=1VF7EW7QS230HNBQBWZK) or the $565 ClipperCreek (http://www.amazon.com/ClipperCreek-HCS-40-Charging-Station-cable/dp/B00TJD0ZW2/ref=sr_1_cc_1?s=aps&ie=UTF8&qid=1447450814&sr=1-1-catcorr&keywords=clipper+creek) or the $589 Clipper Creek (http://www.amazon.com/ClipperCreek-HCS-40P-Charging-Station-cable/dp/B00TKJX7NE/ref=sr_1_cc_2?s=aps&ie=UTF8&qid=1447450814&sr=1-2-catcorr&keywords=clipper+creek)?

Is it just cost, or is there something you prefer about the JuiceBox? It certainly looks simple and no-frills, which I think is a good thing. The Leaf charger has all the bells and whistles you need...

 

[Arlington]

I went with a 30A Juice Box for $488 because
1) The extra 10A in any 40A units aren't worth it for a Leaf
2) For future proofing, a 50A wall outlet seems a better "never hire an electrician again" option; By the time you're buying an EV that can charge at a "real" 40A+, EVSEs will probably be way cheaper anyway (so invest in a 14-50 box and a plug-in EVSE, not an overbuilt hard-wire EVSE)
3) For safety and convenience, spend the money on a 60A panel with 50A 14-50 plug, its own breakers, and a bonus 20A 120V outlet)
4) it was the most affordable way to get a 24' cord (standard)
5) and the solid metal box seemed a better idea than a plastic one.
6) I saw no need for wifi / payments / lights / consumer product-ness

My second choice was a ChargePoint home unit. In all, I'm glad I've got the 24' cord. I had the occasional doubt that I'd use it, but already its allowed us to swap parking between our ICE and EV without complicating charging. Later, it may plug into the flanks/fenders/nose of a Volt or Prius PHEV.

 

[inphoenix]

I am curious: what made you go with the $499 JuiceBox instead of a $444 Siemens or the $549 Siemens or the $565 ClipperCreek or the $589 Clipper Creek?

Is it just cost, or is there something you prefer about the JuiceBox? It certainly looks simple and no-frills, which I think is a good thing. The Leaf charger has all the bells and whistles you need...

Excellent question. The $444 Siemens and $565 CliperCreek were out as they are hardwired. I wanted something that I could plug in.

I did consider the $549 Siemens and the $589 ClipperCreek but they are both 32A. Agreed that at this time 32A would've served the purpose (with current gen leaf) but having a 40A JuiceBox future proofs me a little for the next gen.

If ones wants the bells and whistles the PRO model has it all for an extra $100. I do like the no frills look of this EVSE.

 

[pncguy]

Thanks, Arlington and inphoenix. I am glad I asked the question. That helps me evaluate items for myself. Longer cords are important and the Siemens don't seem to have those, and the ClipperCreeks are a bit more expensive. Overall I think this is a good handful of choices for someone considering their first 240V EVSE.

 

[inphoenix]

1) The extra 10A in any 40A units aren't worth it for a Leaf
2) For future proofing, a 50A wall outlet seems a better "never hire an electrician again" option; By the time you're buying an EV that can charge at a "real" 40A+, EVSEs will probably be way cheaper anyway (so invest in a 14-50 box and a plug-in EVSE, not an overbuilt hard-wire EVSE)
3) For safety and convenience, spend the money on a panel with 50A 14-50 plug, its own breakers, and a bonus 20A 120V outlet
4) it was the most affordable way to get a 24' cord (standard)
5) and the solid metal box seemed a better idea than a plastic one.
6) I saw no need for wifi / payments / lights / consumer product-ness

My second choice was a ChargePoint home unit. In all, I'm glad I've got the 24' cord. I had the occasional doubt that I'd use it, but already its allowed us to swap parking between our ICE and EV without complicating charging. Later, it may plug into the flanks/fenders/nose of a Volt or Prius PHEV.

Interestingly enough, 24' cord wasn't even a consideration in my decision but now that you mention it, yes it would help when the EV is not parked on the "designated" side of the garage.

A question for you .... In #3, do you plan to use the 20A 120V outlet for occasional trickle charge? Or just as additional outlet in the garage?

 

[dhanson865]

1) The extra 10A in any 40A units aren't worth it for a Leaf
2) For future proofing, a 50A wall outlet seems a better "never hire an electrician again" option; By the time you're buying an EV that can charge at a "real" 40A+, EVSEs will probably be way cheaper anyway (so invest in a 14-50 box and a plug-in EVSE, not an overbuilt hard-wire EVSE)
3) For safety and convenience, spend the money on a panel with 50A 14-50 plug, its own breakers, and a bonus 20A 120V outlet
4) it was the most affordable way to get a 24' cord (standard)
5) and the solid metal box seemed a better idea than a plastic one.
6) I saw no need for wifi / payments / lights / consumer product-ness

My second choice was a ChargePoint home unit. In all, I'm glad I've got the 24' cord. I had the occasional doubt that I'd use it, but already its allowed us to swap parking between our ICE and EV without complicating charging. Later, it may plug into the flanks/fenders/nose of a Volt or Prius PHEV.

Interestingly enough, 24' cord wasn't even a consideration in my decision but now that you mention it, yes it would help when the EV is not parked on the "designated" side of the garage.

A question for you .... In #3, do you plan to use the 20A 120V outlet for occasional trickle charge? Or just as additional outlet in the garage?

Unless you have an unusually large garage you might find a longer cable inconvenient. In my case I had a 14-50 socket put on a dividing wall between my two garage doors and the cable can reach any corner of the garage and even out into the driveway.

I literally have 6-10 more feet than I need just laying on the floor all the time. I could buy or build something to hold the cable off the floor but it's just not enough of a hassle for me to bother.

If I could grab one of those J1772 plastic holder clip sockets I'd screw that to a rafter and just hang the cable above my head when I unplug but then my wife wouldn't be able to reach it.

I could screw that to the dividing wall but then it'd just be one foot from the plug and I'd have maybe 5 or 6 feet of cable hanging around dragging on the concrete.

I suppose if I ever have a guest or buy a 2nd/3rd EV I might appreciate the extra length saving me from having to a move a car but for now it seems excessive.

I guess it just depends on where you mount your 14-50 and where your cars will be in relation to that.

 

[Arlington]

24' cord was important to me because I have a 1920s house with no garage, and it saved having to dig/lay conduit to get near my parking pad. It also let the box go someplace "natural"

50A outlet box is under my front porch and JuiceBox is plugged in to that and mounted ~4' away at the side/front outside corner. 24' long cord reaches either side of a two spot parking pad

 

[pncguy]

In some sense you guys are lucky. I have to run 64' of wire from the box that is at the other corner of the house. 30' of that is easily put through conduit on the side of the house, but the other 34' will have to be fished through ceilings in the finished basement. Not terribly hard, but very irritating. But then I'll be 4' from the Leaf, so cord length isn't really a concern for me.

 

[DaveinOlyWA]

in my experience especially concerning EVs, the #1 hurdle to UL listing is money. Quality and reliability of the product rarely comes into the picture.

FYI; I have a UL listed breaker panel in my house designed in the ummm... well a while ago and it has been responsible for over 100 house fires. It is because of this fact that I will not load my breakers more than 67% of its rating.

 

[QueenBee]

in my experience especially concerning EVs, the #1 hurdle to UL listing is money. Quality and reliability of the product rarely comes into the picture.

FYI; I have a UL listed breaker panel in my house designed in the ummm... well a while ago and it has been responsible for over 100 house fires. It is because of this fact that I will not load my breakers more than 67% of its rating.

And UL listing requires specific safety features be put in the product, hence why Manzanita Micro's P3 will never be UL listed unless they decide that GFCI protection is a safety feature that they'd like their product to have.