Giving up on being an ICE free household

[dfwJim]

OP, thanks for the report. I am not willing to pay much if any premium for an EV or HEV. I am looking at cost of ownership+fuel, and the Leaf seems to be approaching the value balance for my needs and wants. If a car that burned kittens for fuel was a better deal, I might be looking at that, too.

Dealing with out-of-range situations is one of the cost-increasing factors. Keeping a second gas car drives up the overall cost of my transport, so I would be going ICE-free buying a Leaf since I'm a single-car household.

So your problem is mostly out-of-range quick road trips like camping and weekend getaways? How often do you QC? Is it a regular part of your driving, or is it only on irregular recreational trips?

Thanks!

 

[camasleaf]

The S is, if nothing else, a flagship for what is possible, a future without gas cars

OK, I will tell my wife that she wants us to stay ICE free then we need a Tesla. Maybe she will get a job to help pay for the car :lol: .

 

[downeykp]

Or a couple of jobs. A tesla would be fine if money were no object. Otherwise it is just folly for most of us to think about buying a car that will never have a financial return over an ice.

The S is, if nothing else, a flagship for what is possible, a future without gas cars

OK, I will tell my wife that she wants us to stay ICE free then we need a Tesla. Maybe she will get a job to help pay for the car :lol: .

 

[camasleaf]

So your problem is mostly out-of-range quick road trips like camping and weekend getaways? How often do you QC? Is it a regular part of your driving, or is it only on irregular recreational trips?

Thanks!

99% of the over 100 QC on both cars was done in the weekends and for some longer trips to the beach and the mountain (1 QC middle way). On the weekends we usually do short 15-20 minutes QC, usually just enough to get us home. If the QC charging stations availability would improve then we would likely not consider an ICE car. Just plan better for winter days, and rent for camping trips. The $5 per session does not help with our short QC charging patterns, but is still overall cheaper than gas, sometimes even for that day trip.

 

[Nubo]

What would an EV do in a snowstorm where the interstate is impassable because of snow. You can't go forward or backwards. You are in a snowstorm for three or four hours. If I have a full tank of gas I can idle and keep warm all day. Could an EV do that. I have been in such situations. Most of these alpine areas are very remote. EV charging would not be in the vicinity even after the backup started to lessen.
So have all the problems you want. Defy reality at your own risk..

[/quote]

An EV would have no problem keeping you alive for quite some time, even with a modest charge. And, without the risk of CO poisoning.

 

[downeykp]

I don't think so. Spend 4 hours in the teens for temperatures. An EV would be futile in those conditions. Once the battery was done so would its occupants.

What would an EV do in a snowstorm where the interstate is impassable because of snow. You can't go forward or backwards. You are in a snowstorm for three or four hours. If I have a full tank of gas I can idle and keep warm all day. Could an EV do that. I have been in such situations. Most of these alpine areas are very remote. EV charging would not be in the vicinity even after the backup started to lessen.
So have all the problems you want. Defy reality at your own risk..

An EV would have no problem keeping you alive for quite some time, even with a modest charge. And, without the risk of CO poisoning.[/quote]

 

[abasile]

Spend 4 hours in the teens for temperatures. An EV would be futile in those conditions. Once the battery was done so would its occupants.

Not if they were adequately prepared. Any car driven in that kind of cold, especially away from the city, should have some blankets on board and the occupants should have winter coats available. If it's an ICE vehicle, what if there's a mechanical problem or accident and it stops running?

If the "EV" happens to be a Tesla S85, I'd guess 4 hours of continuous heater use in the teens would drain roughly a fourth of the battery or maybe even less.

 

[klapauzius]

I don't think so. Spend 4 hours in the teens for temperatures. An EV would be futile in those conditions. Once the battery was done so would its occupants.

On the bright side, you would never be far from civilization (as defined by the availability of a charger) anyway, so the scenario is unlikely.
If you have the range to get into a remote area, where such a situation would be life threatening, you also would have the necessary energy to keep you warm for a while...But its true, at heat generation ICE really shine, a gallon of gas or diesel can keep you warm for a while...

 

[GaslessInSeattle]

Or a couple of jobs. A tesla would be fine if money were no object. Otherwise it is just folly for most of us to think about buying a car that will never have a financial return over an ice.

The S is, if nothing else, a flagship for what is possible, a future without gas cars

OK, I will tell my wife that she wants us to stay ICE free then we need a Tesla. Maybe she will get a job to help pay for the car :lol: .

Let me help you guys out with the other half of that sentence that got left out "...though it certainly will take more time for the economy of scale to be reached for long range EV's to be more generally affordable."

 

[Nubo]

An EV would have no problem keeping you alive for quite some time, even with a modest charge. And, without the risk of CO poisoning.

I don't think so. Spend 4 hours in the teens for temperatures. An EV would be futile in those conditions. Once the battery was done so would its occupants.

In survival mode, you don't need 75F, 65F, 55F or even 45F. You're in an enclosed space and (presumably) have some warm clothing. People have lived their entire LIVES in these conditions. Heck, I've skied all day in the teens, outdoors, in the wind.

With OAT in the teens, you only need to raise the cabin temp a modest amount. This can be done by cycling the car and heat as required. You would last a LONG time. The same scenario plays out with gasoline cars, as not every stranded vehicle has landed in a remote area with a full tank of gas allowing them to "idle all day". After multiple short runs to conserve fuel one may discover difficulty restarting the engine. Not a problem for an EV.

Really, if one is concerned about winter survival, the vehicle's motive power is not where the focus need lie. What happens when the gas tank runs dry?

But in any case all of this smacks of edge-case building to support a predetermined conclusion. Not you personally but I think the OP has developed a chip and now attempting to chisel it into a finer point than is warranted.

 

[JimSouCal]

What would an EV do in a snowstorm where the interstate is impassable because of snow. You can't go forward or backwards. You are in a snowstorm for three or four hours. If I have a full tank of gas I can idle and keep warm all day. Could an EV do that. I have been in such situations. Most of these alpine areas are very remote. EV charging would not be in the vicinity even after the backup started to lessen.
So have all the problems you want. Defy reality at your own risk..

An EV would have no problem keeping you alive for quite some time, even with a modest charge. And, without the risk of CO poisoning.[/quote]The best idea--EV or ICE--is to have a sub zero rated sleeping bag with you--which I happen to usually carry when in snow country… along with snacks and water….

 

[camasleaf]

The S is, if nothing else, a flagship for what is possible, a future without gas cars

Let me help you guys out with the other half of that sentence that got left out "...though it certainly will take more time for the economy of scale to be reached for long range EV's to be more generally affordable."

Well, if I am trying to sell a Tesla to my wife, of course I will leave that part out :lol: .
Like I said, we will not make any decision until later in the fall. I will watch the DCQC situation closely, and also make some cost calculations based on foreasted trips and rental cost. I also hope the new Blink owners will get their act toghether.

 

[EatsShootsandLeafs]

Surprised you went nearly a year. Going ICE free for me would be nigh impossible. I can fit my family in a Leaf but even driving around the city would suffer great challenges with this approach; I am sure we'd spend a lot of time waiting for one of the cars to charge up so we could go somewhere we needed to go. And that doesn't even include road trips. I'm really surprised you made it last as long as you did. My other vehicle is a minivan. Guzzles gas like a maniac, but it's powerful and massive.

 

[BraveLittleToaster]

Being ICE free is not practical. It is ok for the commute but if you want to do outdoor stuff camping, skiing you must have an ICE. Our 2005 Honda Pilot is real roomy, is great in the snow and gets 20+ miles per gallon. EVs will never fit that roll. It is not practical.

You forgot to say "for ME".

Because for *ME*, it's *completely* practical. Whistler-Blackcomb (I imagine you know what and where that is, by now) is only 150 km from my house, and there's a quick charger about halfway there, just before the hill on the way up. Yes, we've done this trip before. And that's the *good* ski hill, not one of the smaller ones on the north shore (you can even take public transit to *those*).

Because I have 4 campgrounds within 80km of my house. And a half-dozen more up the Sunshine Coast on the other side of the ferry, or another half dozen on the Island if you take the ferry in the other direction.

Because you'd be hard-pressed to see a day colder than -10 C in living memory around here, and even 0 C doesn't happen a lot.

Because my wife's commute is only 60 km each way. Even the worst battery degradation isn't going to mean she won't make it *that* far.

Not everyone is you. Not everyone is me, either. Now stop saying "It's just not practical".