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Incredible. Congrats, Mike!mwalsh said:
Gen 1 GM Volt Plug-In Hybrid (2011-2015)
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eHelmholtz
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It's a fun car - I hope you get to drive it some. It's interesting how many of us have added a Volt to the mix, in part because of it's versatility I suspect; I did it last August and then took a Rav4 last month.mwalsh said:Well, we did it.
Boomer23
Well-known member
mwalsh said:
Great deal, Mike, congratulations. You'll be all EV and covered nicely with your large solar power system. I know that you'll get Naomi's permission to drive it some, and I'll be interested in your impressions of the handling and performance in the real world.
Boomer23
Well-known member
A dumb question from me, this late in the game.
With a car like the Volt with TMS, does the TMS run at any time that the pack temp exceeds certain limits, regardless of whether the car is plugged in, or does the car have to be plugged in for the TMS to operate properly or fully?
Second question: Assuming that the TMS does run whether or not the car is plugged in, I assume that you could easily come back to the car and find that the pack is very depleted (obviously not depleted below the allowed user limit). Is that right, or are there limits below which the BMS won't let the TMS pull power? For a PHEV like the Volt, that's not a problem because you always have the range extender, but for a Ford Focus EV or aTesla, that could be a major pain, right (invoke Broder reference...now)?
With a car like the Volt with TMS, does the TMS run at any time that the pack temp exceeds certain limits, regardless of whether the car is plugged in, or does the car have to be plugged in for the TMS to operate properly or fully?
Second question: Assuming that the TMS does run whether or not the car is plugged in, I assume that you could easily come back to the car and find that the pack is very depleted (obviously not depleted below the allowed user limit). Is that right, or are there limits below which the BMS won't let the TMS pull power? For a PHEV like the Volt, that's not a problem because you always have the range extender, but for a Ford Focus EV or aTesla, that could be a major pain, right (invoke Broder reference...now)?
Weatherman
Well-known member
This seems to be the most complete description of when the TMS runs:
http://gm-volt.com/forum/showthread.php?5243-Volt-thermal-management-system-temperature-band&p=48601#post48601" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;
And, another bit of good information:
http://gm-volt.com/2013/05/03/volt-battery-thermal-management-system-in-the-hot-arizona-sun/" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;
So, to answer your questions... The TMS runs when the car is plugged in, or is turned on. If the car is off and not plugged in, it appears the TMS does not run. Fortunately the battery is well insulated, so if you do have to leave your car out in the hot sun all day, unplugged, turning the car on once or twice during the day should allow the TMS to run and cool the battery off.
http://gm-volt.com/forum/showthread.php?5243-Volt-thermal-management-system-temperature-band&p=48601#post48601" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;
And, another bit of good information:
http://gm-volt.com/2013/05/03/volt-battery-thermal-management-system-in-the-hot-arizona-sun/" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;
So, to answer your questions... The TMS runs when the car is plugged in, or is turned on. If the car is off and not plugged in, it appears the TMS does not run. Fortunately the battery is well insulated, so if you do have to leave your car out in the hot sun all day, unplugged, turning the car on once or twice during the day should allow the TMS to run and cool the battery off.
scottf200
Well-known member
That appears to be true based on the empirical testing (2nd link) even tho the someone thought/heard (1st link) indicates that if the SOC is > 75 it would.Weatherman said:
By George S. Bower said:What Happens if the Volt is Parked all Day in Full Sun?
What happens if the Volt is parked in the hot sun with ignition (power) off and NOT plugged in? This would be the scenario for many Arizona workers that park their cars in full sun on a black asphalt parking lot all day. How hot will the Volt’s battery get?
In order to determine, Volt was parked for a day in full sun. Results of this test are presented in figure 5. We see that the Volt’s battery is extremely well insulated. With cabin temperatures soaring to 115 F and ambient air temperatures going to 99 F the Volts battery only reached a maximum temperature of 90 F. Roughly equal to the upper limit during active thermal management during charging shown in figure 2 . We also note that there is NO ACTION taken by the TMS in this case.
It occurred to me that perhaps there was no action by TMS because the battery was at a 5-percent SOC. Therefore I repeated the test with the battery at 81-percent SOC and the results were unchanged ie there was NO ACTION taken by TMS and battery temp reached 91 F.
How hot would the Volts battery get if ambient air temperature reached 110-120 F as is common at the peak of summer? The answer is that we do not know yet. I do not have data at these extreme temperatures so all we can do at this point is SPECULATE. If the TMS system stays inactive at these high temps, then we could see battery temperatures of 100+ degrees at the peak of summer.
I checked back in on WIN's website this morning. According to it they sold 10 Volts yesterday, including ours, and 13 for the Holiday weekend thus far. But considering that we got a $40,000 car for just $21,500 after incentives, I guess it's not very surprising. I'm glad we got down there when we did.
Very happy with the car thus far. Seats are a bit firm, and I'm hoping that they soften up a bit with use. I didn't drive at the dealership, since I've driven many Volts in the last 3 years and hadn't experienced that before, so I didn't notice it. And Naomi didn't mention it on her test drive. I sat in the back, which seemed fine to me.
Very happy with the car thus far. Seats are a bit firm, and I'm hoping that they soften up a bit with use. I didn't drive at the dealership, since I've driven many Volts in the last 3 years and hadn't experienced that before, so I didn't notice it. And Naomi didn't mention it on her test drive. I sat in the back, which seemed fine to me.
Weatherman
Well-known member
mwalsh said:
It's funny you mention that. After living with the soft, cushy LEAF seats, I've found the Volt seats to be a bit uncomfortable. They've only improved slightly (or I've gotten used to them) over the past couple of months.
The other thing that bugs me is the Volt steering is quite stiff, compared to the LEAF, and mine will, easily, drift left or right (mostly right, given the slope of the road), if I don't make constant adjustments. Sometime over the next couple of months I'm going to take the Volt to the dealer to see if they can make it hold a straight line better.
scottf200
Well-known member
Want to hear how the Volt got it's start?!?
Lyle Dennis (gm-volt originator) interviews Bob Lutz: http://gm-volt.com/files/dennislutz.mp3" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;
Lyle Dennis (gm-volt originator) interviews Bob Lutz: http://gm-volt.com/files/dennislutz.mp3" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;
GRA
Well-known member
Terrific! At that price, they'll fly off the lot. Now they need to get the base model 2nd Gen's MSRP+dest. down to <= $30k so that they can keep selling them when the subsidies end. And $25k ultimately.mwalsh said:
edatoakrun
Well-known member
GRA said:
Maybe not so terrific for 2011 Volt buyers who paid ~41K, and are watching their resale values decline.
Or GM leasing, which will have to eat the loss on all the lease returns.
Or for GM itself, which IMO, may be losing $10k or more on each 2013 Volt sale, at that price.
That's $7,500 fed TC and $1500 rebate for CA Volt buyers, so ~$21,500 net, right?
GRA
Well-known member
Early adopters pay a price, same as with any emerging tech. And GM has always said they didn't expect to make a profit on the 1st Gen Volt, it was the spin-offs they were counting on. So I'm not too concerned about GM, since they're profitable.edatoakrun said:
LTLFTcomposite
Well-known member
It's entertaining reading through all the BEV vs PHEV debate. At the end of the day I think GM felt they had the right product for the times. It's really about engineering the customer as much as it is about engineering the car. To wit, a little story: A guy I met who got a Volt so impressed other family members with the virtues of the car two other family members followed suit. But another family member was adamantly opposed to the idea though because she didn't want her electric bill to go up. No amount of explanation that her gas bill would go down way more than her electric bill would go up would sway her.
MNL folk who don't get why the world isn't flocking to evs really overestimate their fellow citizens.
MNL folk who don't get why the world isn't flocking to evs really overestimate their fellow citizens.
LTLFTcomposite said:
Naomi ran into one of her lady friends coming out church who just wasn't impressed - "But what do you do when the power goes out?". She just couldn't get that the Volt had gasoline backup. At all.
I've found something else I don't like. I've never tried reverse before today. When you let your foot of the brake nothing happens. So you press on the accelerator and nothing happens. So you press a bit harder on the accelerator and all of a sudden the car jumps backwards. I'm going to check in with the gm-volt.com folks to see if that's normal or not.
scottf200
Well-known member
Not normal. It has a creep backward just like forward. I pull into my garage an extra 6"-1' and then use the backup camera grid lines to backup to a predetermined spot to maximize the space in the front of my garage. The car creeps back and I do it daily.mwalsh said:
Aside in regards to the grid lines that are not on the current model: Perhaps not software but a money issue. Read this in an USA Today article:
http://www.usatoday.com/story/money/columnist/healey/2012/12/29/james-healey-malibu-turbo/1797343/
I'm 100% OK with it. I'm an early adopter. My computers were all very expense too initially as was my home theater equipment. Just like my Volt tho I keep stuff for a good long while to "get my money out of it." Sell more *EVs!!!edatoakrun said:
Weatherman
Well-known member
mwalsh said:
My Volt doesn't automatically creep forward or backward when I release the brake (unlike my LEAF). The Volt does seem like it's waiting for nudge from the driver to let it know it's ok to move. However, with my Volt, it doesn't take much. Just a light push on the accelerator. After getting used to it in the Prius and then the LEAF, I have to remind myself, when I drive the Volt, that it won't move until I push down on the accelerator.
TomT
Well-known member
No different than buyers and Nissan who are seeing exactly the same thing for early Leafs...
edatoakrun said:
Better pop back in and say all is well. Nothing to see here. Trying to reverse with the parking brake set is all. Rookie mistake.
LTLFTcomposite
Well-known member
The number one thing all new Volt owners need to be aware of is to avoid blindly pushing the power button repeatedly when you intended to push the mode button.
scottf200
Well-known member
Note for those that like to drive in SPORT mode (remap pedal for the first 1/4 throw or so), you can double click the mode button at about any point in time. That is when backing up, when the rear view camera display is still showing for a few seconds as you move forward, etc, etc. HTHLTLFTcomposite said:
The mode button is flat and 2" center-to-center above the light up BLUE and RAISED button that says POWER on it.
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