Gen 1 GM Volt Plug-In Hybrid (2011-2015)

[evnow]

i wonder if this might give us a teeny tiny hint as to overall mileage after the battery pack wall charge has been depleted?

So - even though GM uses only 50% of the capacity they couldn't warranty for 10 year/150K miles. Assuming they were ok with the battery using 100% of the remaining capacity at they end of 10 year/150K miles - what this shows is that battery capacity will be less than 50%. BTW, Volt battery is liquid cooled.

Assuming a recharge every day - 10 years is 3600 recharges - and some 144,000 miles on electric alone.

But, they were ok with 8 years, 100K miles. Again assuming a recharge every day - 8 years is 2900 recharges - and some 115,000 miles on electric alone. So, with 8/100, you can't recharge and use that 40 miles electric range everyday - but you can most of the days.

So, somewhere around 3,000 charges, Volt battery will stop holding 50% of the capacity.

 

[AndyH]

Something doesn't seem right about this. I'll bet this is more about warranty estimates than it is a reflection on what the battery will really do.

The larger a company is the more conservative they need to be. To add insult to injury, GM should be in a 'max profit' mode so they can convince their suppliers and the taxpayers that own about 60% of the company that they're worthy of the bailout.

They make their money selling trucks and SUVs and that isn't likely to change anytime soon. The Volt isn't likely to make money for a while. A longer warranty tail is a larger potential liability. And we already know that the view of battery tech from within the 'ICE culture' is that "batteries aren't ready" - so they're likely to be overly pessimistic (if 'pessimistic' isn't the right word, maybe 'I'll believe it when I see it - we'll compare notes in 10 years to see if you battery people are right' is more appropriate...)

Batteries are more than ready. EV tech is more than ready. But the Detroit mindset isn't going to change until they can't make money from ICE any longer.

I guess that's a long way to say that I think this decision is more about a near-sighted company taking care of 'number 1' than it is a reflection of the battery.

 

[AndyH]

http://www.evworld.com/currents.cfm?jid=123


Chevy Volt: A Pinch of Parallel?
By Bill Moore


When it comes to engineering a hybrid electric vehicle, you have two choices. You develop a complex transmission system that allows the vehicle to use blends of power from the electric motor and internal combustion engine, which is referred to as a "parallel" hybrid, or you keep the two separate in what is called a series or serial hybrid architecture. Conceptually, the latter is the easiest to configure. The internal combustion engine spins an onboard electrical generator that provides power to the vehicle's traction motor; no complicated transmission to blend the two is required.

The trouble with series hybrids is that they aren't quite as efficient in some driving cycles as the parallel hybrid. Examples of a parallel hybrid are the ground breaking Toyota Prius (1997), the Honda Insight (1999), and the Ford Escape Hybrid (2003). Series hybrids have tended to be confined to heavier vehicle applications: diesel-electric locomotives and transit buses.

Then along came the Chevrolet Volt: a four-passenger sedan with an onboard 53kW gasoline engine generator and a huge 16kWh lithium ion battery pack giving it up to 40 miles of electric-first driving range, after which the 1.4L Ecotec gasoline engine would power up the electrical generator churning out electrons to spin the electric traction motor, allowing the car to drive another 300 miles at an estimated 50 mpg. For all intents and purposes, the Voltec electric drive system employs a series hybrid architecture. Or so we thought.

From the very outset, GM has insisted that the drive system in the Volt -- and presumably its European cousin, the Ampera -- is different. They even created a new classification for it: Extended-Range Electric Vehicle or EREV, arguing that it's more an electric car with a range extender than a hybrid. The distinct is a subtle one from the consumer's perspective. While it offers features found in an all-electric car: no emissions, excellent accelerating, the ability to 'refuel' it at home from local electric power grid; it also acts like a hybrid: very efficiently consuming gasoline to provide the owner with anxiety-free driving range beyond its battery capacity.

The trouble with series hybrids is that they aren't very good in more demanding driving conditions, especially when climbing long grades. Because the engine-generator set is running flat out producing all the electric power it can to keep the vehicle up to speed, fuel economy -- and emissions -- suffer. In these situations, it makes sense to use the engine torque directly to spin the wheels, but again, that necessitates a complex transmission; and it just so happens that GM has one: theTwo-Mode hybrid transmission used in its Tahoe/Yukon Hybrids.

For months now, it's been rumored that the Voltec drive isn't a purely series/serial hybrid; that there's a touch of parallel architecture in it, incorporated to handle just those long uphill grades in the Appalachians and mountain West. GM has not officially confirmed this and likely won't until early next year. It still remains just a rumor, but one that has a thread of credence, especially if you look at what program engineers have said about the car's EREV fuel economy. It would be very hard to average 50 mpg in a pure series hybrid. Plug-In Conversions Corporation president Kim Adelman has long contended that if the Volt is a series/serial hybrid, it won't do better in fuel economy than a Toyota Camry Hybrid or Ford Fusion; certainly nothing approaching that of Prius, for which his conversion kits are designed. The difference between the 50 mpg average of the Prius and the 38-41 mpg of the Camry and Fusion suggests there is some parallel blending going on in the Voltec powertrain.

While GM's Robert Peterson is reported neither confirming nor denying that the Volt may employ some parallel blending -- and is that really news? -- practical engineering realities would suggest that its powertrain people have adapted aspects of the Two-Mode hybrid transmission -- avoiding potential patent conflicts withToyota -- for use in the car. Of course, we won't know for certain until six months from now, but is it really all that important what they've done under the skin? What owners are going to care about is will it live up to its promised performance? Can we really drive for weeks, neigh months, without ever having to visit a gasoline station?

Here's a preview. My wife has now gone more than 45 days of driving nearly every day to and from work, beside shopping trips on the weekend and still hasn't had to refuel our PICC-converted Prius. We're now estimating she'll be able to drive two months on a single tank of fuel. Previously, she had to refuel her Honda Accord every two weeks.

It's so nice having a 'filling station' in your garage, as Volt owners are about to discover, blended or not.

 

[planet4ever]

Now that's what I call a biased article. In fact GM has made it abundantly clear that there is no "pinch of parallel" in the Volt, and no problem with performance in extended range mode. That's because they allow a generous helping of battery support.

Don't get me wrong. I'm committed to getting a Leaf, but I did look long and seriously at the Volt. I rather like the idea of an electric car with an on-board backup generator. What I hate is the unannounced but probably very high price point, the focus on high-end gadgetry, and the old-guard dealer sales approach.

 

[AndyH]

Biased? Maybe. Could also have been written between the GM 'leak' of a mechanical connection from the ICE to the wheels and the GM denial of a mechanical linkage.

Bill is a journalist, and is experienced with hybrids. His last car was a Gen 1 Insight. His wife's Prius has been converted to a plug-in. He knows what a hybrid car is and the benefits of a PHEV.

 

[planet4ever]

I didn't mean biased against hybrids, only biased toward Toyota and against GM. He clearly seems to think a pluggable Prius is superior to a Volt. I'm probably biased myself, but to me, 40 miles of pure electric drive in all conditions is clearly superior to 10-15 miles of mostly electric with an occasional ICE boost.

Incidentally, I owned a Prius for several years and my wife still owns one. I consider it to be a great car, and very innovative ... for its day. But there's only so much you can do with an after-market plug in feature and, sadly, Toyota doesn't seem to be able to see beyond what the enthusiasts have already come up with.

 

[evnow]

I guess that's a long way to say that I think this decision is more about a near-sighted company taking care of 'number 1' than it is a reflection of the battery.

I'm a little more optimistic about GM's new team.

The larger a company is the more conservative they need to be. To add insult to injury, GM should be in a 'max profit' mode so they can convince their suppliers and the taxpayers that own about 60% of the company that they're worthy of the bailout.

They make their money selling trucks and SUVs and that isn't likely to change anytime soon.

The people GM really needs to convince about its future are the investors who will buy the shares in their upcoming IPO. They are not going to be convinced that focussing on SUVs is the right thing to do for the future. Investors are definitely looking at more fuel efficient models and viable future EV program. But they also look at current P&L. GM needs to do a balancing act between current profitability and future sustainability/growth. That is a tough act ...

 

[evnow]

http://www.plugincars.com/why-chevy-volt-does-not-qualify-california-5000-rebate-49725.html

One more reason why Volt didn't get AT-PZEV.

The second reason relates to the use of catalytic converters to ensure emissions are always low. Through the use of catalysts, emissions for gas-powered cars (including conventional hybrids) can be routinely controlled to be extremely low. In a pure gas car, the engine comes on, the catalyst is warmed up, and the emissions are kept to minimum. In a conventional hybrid, the engine comes on routinely enough to ensure the catalyst is warm and functioning. But what if the engine stays off and is cold for long periods of time, and is then called into service—maybe once or maybe multiple times during the vehicle’s drive cycle? The emissions could therefore be harder to control.

 

[AndyH]

http://www.jaylenosgarage.com/at-the-garage/hybrids/green-garage-2011-chevy-volt/

3900 lbs?

JAY! A 240V washer?!

 

[palmermd]

http://www.plugincars.com/why-chevy-volt-does-not-qualify-california-5000-rebate-49725.html

One more reason why Volt didn't get AT-PZEV.

The second reason relates to the use of catalytic converters to ensure emissions are always low. Through the use of catalysts, emissions for gas-powered cars (including conventional hybrids) can be routinely controlled to be extremely low. In a pure gas car, the engine comes on, the catalyst is warmed up, and the emissions are kept to minimum. In a conventional hybrid, the engine comes on routinely enough to ensure the catalyst is warm and functioning. But what if the engine stays off and is cold for long periods of time, and is then called into service—maybe once or maybe multiple times during the vehicle’s drive cycle? The emissions could therefore be harder to control.

This is a bunch of hooey. When you start your gas car in the morning it is cold. It warms up as you go on your way. Thats the way it works. In the Volt, you get going and 40 miles later you have the EXACT same situation as the gas only car, the engine starts and warms up as you go. There is no difference, and so the engine SHOULD have no difference for emissions. I've read this same blurb in several articles, and cant believe people keep spreading this garbage everywhere.

 

[evnow]

http://evworld.com/article.cfm?storyid=1896

ARB certification would have required, both GM executives explained, additional testing and since California's air quality regulators had yet to figure out how to classify the Volt, GM felt it was more important to continue the accelerated development program and get the car out by the Fall of 2010 then wait for ARB to come up with a way to categorize what will be for many drivers essentially an all-electric car, while for other who driver further distances each day, a hybrid.

BTW,

The long, speculation-filled wait is about to end. Come Tuesday, 27 July 2010, if heavy hints prove true, General Motors officials will announce the pricing...

 

[AndyH]

http://www.detnews.com/article/20100719/AUTO01/7190366/Chevy-Volt-doesn-t-get-Jay-Leno-charged-up

Late-night comic and "Tonight Show" host Jay Leno, who has been courted by General Motors Co. to help build buzz for the Chevrolet Volt, zinged the automaker with a backhanded compliment to the highly anticipated electric car.
...
GM executives gave Leno a Volt late last year to test drive, but the noted gearhead...likened the extended-range electric car to an underwhelming compact model being phased out by GM's Chevrolet brand.

 

[AndyH]

http://www.plugincars.com/why-chevy-volt-does-not-qualify-california-5000-rebate-49725.html

One more reason why Volt didn't get AT-PZEV.

The second reason relates to the use of catalytic converters to ensure emissions are always low. Through the use of catalysts, emissions for gas-powered cars (including conventional hybrids) can be routinely controlled to be extremely low. In a pure gas car, the engine comes on, the catalyst is warmed up, and the emissions are kept to minimum. In a conventional hybrid, the engine comes on routinely enough to ensure the catalyst is warm and functioning. But what if the engine stays off and is cold for long periods of time, and is then called into service—maybe once or maybe multiple times during the vehicle’s drive cycle? The emissions could therefore be harder to control.

This is a bunch of hooey. When you start your gas car in the morning it is cold. It warms up as you go on your way. Thats the way it works. In the Volt, you get going and 40 miles later you have the EXACT same situation as the gas only car, the engine starts and warms up as you go. There is no difference, and so the engine SHOULD have no difference for emissions. I've read this same blurb in several articles, and cant believe people keep spreading this garbage everywhere.

I can't cover every aspect of the issue but can talk about the emissions basics. You're right when you say that gas or diesel cars start cold at the beginning of a drive. For system in proper repair, there's an emissions spike until both the catalytic converter and the engine get up to normal temperature.

The parallel hybrids add a new level of emissions-counting and control challenge because the engine can shut down numerous times during a drive - and since most catalytic converters are heated by exhaust, we get emissions spikes each time the ICE system cools down enough to drop out of the 'efficiency zone'. That's one of the reasons Toyota has a 'thermos bottle' for coolant, and why some manufacturers have developed electrically-heated catalytic converters. J1711 and other specs try their best to capture the emissions behavior of parallel hybrids but there are plenty of variations.

The series hybrids should have a different emissions profile - different from regular gas/diesel and different from parallel hybrids. All battery should be zero emissions. If there's 40 miles of battery, and it takes 10 miles for the ICE systems to get up to full efficiency, there's a chance that there's a pretty ugly emissions profile if the end user drives routine 45 mile trips. The emissions profile won't stabilize until the drive hits 50 miles.

This paper from Argonne Labs gives an overview: http://www.eere.energy.gov/vehicles...icles_and_systems_simulation/vss_05_duoba.pdf

 

[evnow]

Standard equipment on Volt.

http://gm-volt.com/2010/07/26/chevrolet-volt-standard-equipment/

People over there are a little miffed at premium fuel requirement. Wonder whether premium fuel lasts longer (in terms of storage) or that just to boost the CS mode mileage ?

 

[AndyH]

People over there are a little miffed at premium fuel requirement. Wonder whether premium fuel lasts longer (in terms of storage) or that just to boost the CS mode mileage ?

All grades of gasoline deteriorate in storage. A higher compression engine (or one designed for Europe's higher quality fuel) might call for premium. The electronic engine controls should allow the engine to operate just fine with lower grade fuel, though.

Using premium in an engine not designed for it results in spending more at the pump and an increased rate of deposits in the engine from the slower-burning fuel.

Storage = using fuel stabilizer regardless of octane rating as dying gas leaves varnish that plugs filters and injectors.

 

[palmermd]

The series hybrids should have a different emissions profile - different from regular gas/diesel and different from parallel hybrids. All battery should be zero emissions. If there's 40 miles of battery, and it takes 10 miles for the ICE systems to get up to full efficiency, there's a chance that there's a pretty ugly emissions profile if the end user drives routine 45 mile trips. The emissions profile won't stabilize until the drive hits 50 miles.

Yes, you just confirmed my comment. The only difference is that you delay the start of emissions. A 50 mile drive in the Volt is the same as a 10 mile drive in a Malibu. Each car will have an engine warming up for 10 miles.

 

[Stoaty]

Just found out that the Volt requires Premium fuel for those longer drives:

http://green.autoblog.com/2010/07/28/2011-chevrolet-volt-requires-premium-gas-yup/#comments

Another reason the Volt is completely off my list!

 

[LeafHopper]

The Volt is an impostor. It is not an EV. It is a hybrid that only gets 37 EPA mpg when running on PREMIUM gas.

 

[evnow]

http://blogs.wsj.com/drivers-seat/2010/07/28/chevy-volt-are-electric-cars-too-expensive/

The Volt could lose out to the $32,780 Nissan Leaf expected to go on sale around the same time. Chevrolet says its car is worth more in part because its gasoline engine generates electricity when the battery runs low. But Mr. Magliano says extended range may be less of a selling point for buyers, many of whom have more than one vehicle anyway. Those buyers are still going to use their conventional gasoline-powered vehicle for long road trips.

People looking for a commuter car might choose the less-expensive Leaf. Even more likely, they will buy a traditional small, cheap, fuel-efficient car. “Like a Honda Fit,” Magliano says.

 

[Stoaty]

GM won't release CS mode mileage:

http://gm-volt.com/2010/07/29/chevy-volt-may-launch-without-official-epa-efficiency-label/

Probably gets nowhere near the 50 MPG number they have been throwing around, and they don't want to let the cat out of the bag... just like the Volt price, which they kept under wraps as long as possible.