Gen 1 GM Volt Plug-In Hybrid (2011-2015)

[Valdemar]

My primary Leaf maintenance is more and more looking like an out of pocket traction battery replacement every 100,000 miles. In retrospect, I should have probably gotten a Volt.

 

[edatoakrun]

Via GCR:

2012 Chevrolet Volt Racks Up 250,000 Miles, One-Third Electric, Rest At 39 MPG

http://www.greencarreports.com/news/1099112_2012-chevrolet-volt-racks-up-250000-miles-one-third-electric-rest-at-39-mpg

Since taking delivery of his Volt on March 28, 2012, Belmer calculates lifetime "blended" fuel economy of 59.4 mpg (both electric and gasoline miles). That's better than the rated 50 mpg combined of the most efficient car without a plug sold in the U.S., the Toyota Prius hybrid. When operating on gasoline alone, he has averaged 38.6 mpg, slightly higher than the EPA rating. So far the Volt seems to be holding up well. At 200,000 miles, Belmer said there has been no apparent loss in battery capacity. His maintenance primarily consists of oil changes every 38,000 miles, and tire rotations at 10,000 miles.

Using this Volt's current stats:

http://www.voltstats.net/Stats/Details/1579

It looks like his Volt needed to burn ~1682 gallons of premium gas (and a few oil changes) for each 100k miles he drove.

That would have averaged close to $7,000 per 100k miles in California, but I assume in Ohio, gas was considerably cheaper.

My primary Leaf maintenance is more and more looking like an out of pocket traction battery replacement every 100,000 miles. In retrospect, I should have probably gotten a Volt.

What do you think the total price that you will have paid for kWh will be, by the time you have put 100k miles on your LEAF?

What do you think your LEAFs total CO2 emissions from generating the electricity required to drive that 100k miles will have been, as compared to the ~2.2 million gallons of CO2 this volt emitted out of its tailpipe (not to mention all the additional CO2 generated in manufacturing and delivering the gas) to drive the same 100 k miles?

 

[Valdemar]

My daily commute is 60 miles and I can charge at work, it is a bit expensive at $2/hr for a 3kWh OBC, but it would have cost me less to charge a Volt there and be like 90% electric than to swap out a pack for 6+ grand at 100k, considering I have to use these stations more and more these days charging my Leaf. However I don't like the Volt more than I don't like the Leaf as a car, so I guess I shouldn't complain.

 

[edatoakrun]

... I don't like the Volt more than I don't like the Leaf as a car, so I guess I shouldn't complain.

IMO, the LEAF was the worst vehicle I could have bought four years ago.

Except for all the other vehicles on the market...

 

[DaveEV]

My daily commute is 60 miles and I can charge at work, it is a bit expensive at $2/hr for a 3kWh OBC, but it would have cost me less to charge a Volt there and be like 90% electric than to swap out a pack for 6+ grand at 100k, considering I have to use these stations more and more these days charging my Leaf.

But the Volt would have cost about $5k more back in 2011, add in the CA rebate difference and that's the cost of a battery pack replacement. Add the cost of gas and the Volt comes out costing more than the LEAF.

With your situation and with low mileage 2013+ LEAFs hitting the market at great prices, I suspect that selling your LEAF and getting a 2013+ with the 6 kW L2 charger and slightly higher efficiency (perhaps a SV+ w/heat pump for winter?) might only cost you a couple thousand now but really cut back on your need for L2 at work at $2/hr. At the very least you'd be able to go from 2 hours of L2 to just one hour of L2 or less. A '13 LEAF should probably make the 60 mile commute easily in the summer for at least another year.

That's still not knocking the Volt - it's used value is much higher than the LEAF and I certainly wouldn't mind one to replace the Prius.

 

[Valdemar]

You're right, I forgot the Volt is more expensive upfront. Not sure about a 2013, I'm a bit tired with the current Leaf, and would rather wait couple more years for next generation even if I have to charge at work daily.

 

[edatoakrun]

... not knocking the Volt - it's used value is much higher than the LEAF and I certainly wouldn't mind one to replace the Prius.

It's a buyer's market for Volts, and pretty much every other new or used BEV, hybrid, or fuel efficient ICEV, right now.

2011 Volt in good condition with ~35k miles sells for under $13 k (private party, San Francisco Bay area) according to:

http://www.kbb.com/chevrolet/volt/2011-chevrolet-volt/sedan-4d/?condition=good&vehicleid=352719&intent=buy-used&mileage=35324&pricetype=private-party&persistedcondition=good

 

[Valdemar]

It's a buyer's market for Volts, and pretty much every other new or used BEV, hybrid, or fuel efficient ICEV, right now.

No kidding, my '11 Leaf is a bit over $7k according to kbb private party/good condition, which is probably optimistic considering I'm out of capacity warranty, no way I'm selling.

 

[edatoakrun]

I don't know how many new 2014 Volts are still FS, but if you find one, sounds like A California buyer could get one for < $16k, after the $1.5k CARB rebate.

Sweet Chevy Volt Offers If You Look Around

September 1st, 2015 by Zach

With a much-improved 2nd-generation Chevy Volt about to hit garages, there are some great offers out there on 1st-gen Volts.

As just one example, an Iowan recently spotted a 2014 Volt for $25,900 that is still eligible for the $7,500 tax credit, bringing it down to just $18,400. However, he actually got it down another $1,000 by getting a “private offer” from another forum member.

The sticker price on this car, which is admittedly a “bare bones” vehicle without extra options, is $35,490. Chopping that approximately in half is pretty sweet, no?..

http://evobsession.com/sweet-chevy-volt-offers-if-you-look-around/

Source:

http://gm-volt.com/forum/showthread.php?193130-Rate-this-new-2014-deal-this-is-the-best-I-ve-found-so-far...

On the other hand, this looks like the most authoritative estimate of the Volt's battery replacement cost that I've read:

...The Volt battery pack consists of three lithium-ion modules in a T-shaped arrangement, each of which can be serviced individually. Module 1 is made up of 90 cells and corresponds to GM part number 22954462, which retails for $3,258.33; module 2 is made up of 72 cells and corresponds to GM part number 22954463, which retails for $2,930.00; lastly, module 3 is made up of 125 cells and corresponds to GM part number 22954464, and retails for $4,933.33. These part numbers have been added to the dealer order systems but have not shown up in the distribution centers at this time. Although all three of the modules add up to a fairly large $11,121.66 total and are still on hold for dealer ordering, the good news is that in most cases these battery cell modules do not need to be replaced.

...Getting a module replaced will cost you around $2,100 for parts, labor, and programming; labor can be a big hit since dropping the battery pack is required in order to service these modules...

http://www.autoblog.com/2015/09/02/real-costs-chevy-volt-road/

So, while I doubt very many LEAF owners will ever replace their ~$6,000 OE pack with a new one (other than those who get them for "free") I think its fair to say no 2011-15 Volt owner ever will...

 

[LKK]

The next paragraph of the article says " If you are looking to replace the entire pack, the outlook has gotten better based on recent reports of refurbished battery packs becoming available for around $4,000. "

Still expensive and the price is based on an exchange but may be considered affordable for some Volt owners.

 

[GRA]

The next paragraph of the article says " If you are looking to replace the entire pack, the outlook has gotten better based on recent reports of refurbished battery packs becoming available for around $4,000. "

Still expensive and the price is based on an exchange but may be considered affordable for some Volt owners.

If the option is to buy a new car, I'd say so, but realistically,these cars will remain drivable (albeit with less AER) when their batteries have degraded to where it's noticeable, so any decision on pack replacement will likely be driven by the price of gas at the time. At current gas prices almost no one would bother, but if it were say $5 gallon the economics are very much more favorable. As a practical matter, I expect most Gen 1 Volts will see out their entire lives with their original packs.

 

[mwalsh]

The next paragraph of the article says " If you are looking to replace the entire pack, the outlook has gotten better based on recent reports of refurbished battery packs becoming available for around $4,000.

Don't know where they got that number from, the widely accepted price for a new replacement pack (with exchange) has always been ~$2,600.

 

[edatoakrun]

...the widely accepted price for a new replacement pack (with exchange) has always been ~$2,600.

I would be very surprised if anyone sold a 16-18 kWh pack for that price, not to mention the labor involved.

So you think the report on the previous page got it very wrong?

...The Volt battery pack consists of three lithium-ion modules in a T-shaped arrangement, each of which can be serviced individually. Module 1 is made up of 90 cells and corresponds to GM part number 22954462, which retails for $3,258.33; module 2 is made up of 72 cells and corresponds to GM part number 22954463, which retails for $2,930.00; lastly, module 3 is made up of 125 cells and corresponds to GM part number 22954464, and retails for $4,933.33. These part numbers have been added to the dealer order systems but have not shown up in the distribution centers at this time. Although all three of the modules add up to a fairly large $11,121.66 total and are still on hold for dealer ordering, the good news is that in most cases these battery cell modules do not need to be replaced.

...Getting a module replaced will cost you around $2,100 for parts, labor, and programming; labor can be a big hit since dropping the battery pack is required in order to service these modules...

http://www.autoblog.com/2015/09/02/real-costs-chevy-volt-road/

LKK wrote:
The next paragraph of the article says " If you are looking to replace the entire pack, the outlook has gotten better based on recent reports of refurbished battery packs becoming available for around $4,000.

If you follow the links to the source:

The discounted ~$3,500 price is real.

I recently had a battery issue with the cell balancing circuitry for one of the battery modules. The first dealer I took the car to tried talking me into replacing the entire battery pack. My battery pack is out of warranty because I have a 2011 car that doesn't qualify for the CA HOV lane stickers, rebate, and 150,000 battery warranty. My car had 112,000 miles on the odometer and a 100,000 mile pack warranty. The dealer quoted a non-discounted battery part cost of a bit over $4,000.

It's an exchange so GM gets your original pack. The new battery is not guaranteed to be new -- only that it's cells have not degraded any more than your original pack. Also, I suspect that GM has to specifically approve whole pack exchanges and they likely only do that when a dealer mechanic has provided evidence that the replacement is required.

in any case, I had a service manual and the benefit of another owner here who had a similar part failure. I ended up switching dealers and paying only about $300 in parts cost for one new battery interface circuit board and I kept the rest of my original pack.

http://gm-volt.com/forum/showthread.php?179674-P0AF8-and-Volt-needs-a-new-battery-module&p=2511129#post2511129

Clear as mud...

 

[mwalsh]

...the widely accepted price for a new replacement pack (with exchange) has always been ~$2,600.

I would be very surprised if anyone sold a 16-18 kWh pack for that price, not to mention the labor involved.

So you think the report on the previous page got it very wrong?

Clear as mud...

Maybe:

http://cleantechnica.com/2014/01/07/ev-battery-prices-much-lower-think/

http://gm-volt.com/forum/showthread.php?70545-Volt-replacement-battery-for-only-2-300

 

[scottf200]

Went running errands in my 2011 (3.6 yr old) Volt yesterday. Showed 45 miles on the battery. It'll be interesting what year it starts staying below 40. My kid will be driving it next year tho and he may "hotrod" it more than I do so his daily estimate will likely be diff than mine anyway.

 

[EVforRobert]

Went running errands in my 2011 (3.6 yr old) Volt yesterday. Showed 45 miles on the battery. It'll be interesting what year it starts staying below 40. My kid will be driving it next year tho and he may "hotrod" it more than I do so his daily estimate will likely be diff than mine anyway.

So far nobody has reported losing range with a Volt, probably due charge/discharge buffers.
Mine gave me well over EPA at 35,000 miles.
Your son will appreciate starting every trip charged and the equivalent of a gallon of gas he won't have to pay for.

 

[redLEAF]

Interesting article that's specific to the first gen Volt but also to those of us 'early adopters' with the '11/'12 LEAF ... this guy says he paid 55K (C$) for his (before incentives) which has to be a record; I thought having to pay MSRP was bad enough; perhaps the exchange rate from USD ?, not really explained

http://www.fleetcarma.com/chevrolet-volt-low-resale-value/

 

[GRA]

Interesting article that's specific to the first gen Volt but also to those of us 'early adopters' with the '11/'12 LEAF ... this guy says he paid 55K (C$) for his (before incentives) which has to be a record; I thought having to pay MSRP was bad enough; perhaps the exchange rate from USD ?, not really explained

http://www.fleetcarma.com/chevrolet-volt-low-resale-value/

At the moment, $1.00 U.S.D. = $1.33 Canadian, although at the time he bought his Volt, they were about equal: https://www.google.com/search?q=u.s.+canadian+dollar+exchange+rate&rlz=1CASMAD_enUS659US659&oq=u.s.+canadian+dollar+exchange+rate&aqs=chrome..69i57.12521j0j1&sourceid=chrome&ie=UTF-8

 

[LTLFTcomposite]

In case there was any question who the big dog is in practicality and durability:

http://www.hybridcars.com/chevy-volt-travels-300000th-mile/

 

[GRA]

In case there was any question who the big dog is in practicality and durability:

http://www.hybridcars.com/chevy-volt-travels-300000th-mile/

Although you've got to figure that a high mileage HEV or a TDI would probably cost him less. Unlike most people his operating expenses make up a major part of his total costs. CR did a cost comparo a few years back intheir review of the Volt, showing at what range the Volt was cheaper, and beyond what range a Prius was. ISTR CR calculated it with regular gas at $3.60 or $3.80 at the time, and premium $0.20/gal. more. Anyway, from vague memory the cross-over point was somewhere between 60 and 80 miles. With cheaper gas it would be shorter.

OTOH, this guy works for GM, so chances are he was pretty much limited to one of their products. I suspect vandalism damage to a foreign make while parked at work would outweigh the fuel cost savings.