Gasoline May Rise Above $5 a Gallon

[AndyH]

I think one thing that is easy to miss about natural gas is that it is very easy to counteract the positive effects of less CO2 from combustion by having natural gas producers with lousy extraction processes like we do now in the US. When they let extra methane escape it acts as a much more powerful greenhouse gas than CO2...

And it appears that methane releases are an overall lose-lose. We get 25 times the greenhouse effect from the released CH4 during its ~100 year lifespan.** Then it degrades into CO2 and water - it's the 'gift' that keeps on giving...

http://iopscience.iop.org/1748-9326/4/4/044007/

...so it would not be hard to have a natural gas based transportation system that is just as worse as a coal powered electric one.

Maybe similar to other fossil fuels in terms of warming, but at least the other emissions are lower - SOx, NOx, radioactive elements, mercury...

We've jumped from $3.19 to $3.55 for 87 octane down here with some sightings to $3.65.

It's time to get the battery back into the motorcycle now that our non-winter is over.

edit... **
It appears that the current IPCC process uses a 100 year greenhouse effect window for the shorter life emissions, and it appears that methane has a 25 times more potent than CO2 over that period. It appears from the paper that the effect is around 50 for the approximately 10 years it takes for the first stages of the CH4 oxidation process (with intermediate compounds providing lower effect) until approximately 60% of the original becomes CO2. Is there a chemist in the house?

 

[GRA]

Interview with the CEO of NRG Energy: "CEO leads NRG Energy from Nuclear to Solar, Natural Gas":

http://online.wsj.com/article/SB10001424052970204276304577265183536837766.html?mod=googlenews_wsj" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

 

[planet4ever]

Interview with the CEO of NRG Energy: "CEO leads NRG Energy from Nuclear to Solar, Natural Gas":
http://online.wsj.com/article/SB10001424052970204276304577265183536837766.html?mod=googlenews_wsj" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

You apparently have to be a WSJ.com subscriber to read beyond the first few sentences of that article.

Ray

 

[edatoakrun]

Interview with the CEO of NRG Energy: "CEO leads NRG Energy from Nuclear to Solar, Natural Gas":
http://online.wsj.com/article/SB10001424052970204276304577265183536837766.html?mod=googlenews_wsj" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

You apparently have to be a WSJ.com subscriber to read beyond the first few sentences of that article.

Ray

You can usually hop the pay-wall at the WSJ by searching a sentence from the article, and finding a WSJ link, to the "free pass" article.

Works, for me, for this article.

 

[planet4ever]

Thanks, that got me to the article. But my eyebrows shot up a bit when I read this:

Mr. Crane: The idea is you come into these fast chargers—put them in places where you can do something, like go to a Walgreen's or a supermarket—and you get 40 or 50 miles of charge in 10-15 minutes.

I haven't had a chance to use a fast charger, but Nissan tells us the CHAdeMO QC can go from Low Battery Warning to 80% in "approximately 0.5 hours". Others have said 25 minutes, so let's go with that. The catch is that LBW to 80% is somewhere between 60% and 65% of the usable battery capacity. So getting 50 miles in 15 minutes would suggest you could get 83 miles in 25 minutes. (I know the charge rate slows as the battery approaches capacity, but I assume it doesn't slow significantly below 80%.) And if 83 miles is, say, 63% of the usable capacity, then how come I never get anywhere close to 132 miles out of my battery? (40 miles in 10 minutes would give even more ridiculous results.)

Sorry, but I think there's a fair amount of hype going on here.

Ray

 

[edatoakrun]

Thanks, that got me to the article. But my eyebrows shot up a bit when I read this:

Mr. Crane: The idea is you come into these fast chargers—put them in places where you can do something, like go to a Walgreen's or a supermarket—and you get 40 or 50 miles of charge in 10-15 minutes.

I haven't had a chance to use a fast charger, but Nissan tells us the CHAdeMO QC can go from Low Battery Warning to 80% in "approximately 0.5 hours". Others have said 25 minutes, so let's go with that. The catch is that LBW to 80% is somewhere between 60% and 65% of the usable battery capacity. So getting 50 miles in 15 minutes would suggest you could get 83 miles in 25 minutes. (I know the charge rate slows as the battery approaches capacity, but I assume it doesn't slow significantly below 80%.) And if 83 miles is, say, 63% of the usable capacity, then how come I never get anywhere close to 132 miles out of my battery? (40 miles in 10 minutes would give even more ridiculous results.)

Sorry, but I think there's a fair amount of hype going on here.

Ray

I believe most CHAdeMO QC's installed in the us provide about 50 kW, or 12.5 kWh from 15 minutes of charging.

I have gotten about 4.4 m/kWh average, over 7,000 miles of driving.

Which would imply about 50 miles of range at my average, and 30-40 miles, at freeway speeds, for 15 minutes of charging, assuming a DC charge efficiency rate of about 90%.

This example of short charge sessions is exactly how I , and most people, will use DC, in the great majority of cases, IMO.

Unless you are going on a long trip AND have time to burn at a DC station, or if future DC stations are not available on your route, it will not make sense to use a DC charger, other than to give you sufficient range to get to your next charge location.

The concept of a "fill-up" is largely an anachronism, with a BEV.

 

[planet4ever]

I believe most CHAdeMO QC's installed in the us provide about 50 kW, or 12.5 kWh from 15 minutes of charging.

Yes, just like most L2 EVSEs "provide" 30A = 7.2 kW. Based on statements from others on this board, it seems the LEAF rarely pulls over 30 kW from a QC.

Unless you are going on a long trip AND have time to burn at a DC station, or if future DC stations are not available on your route, it will not make sense to use a DC charger, other than to give you sufficient range to get to your next charge location.
The concept of a "fill-up" is largely an anachronism, with a BEV.

Now, that I will agree with. I really don't get the concept of holding your speed down to 60 mph so you can get 50 miles out of a QC, then spending 25 minutes stopped for every 50 minutes on the road, for a true average speed of 40 mph.

Ray

 

[edatoakrun]

I believe most CHAdeMO QC's installed in the us provide about 50 kW, or 12.5 kWh from 15 minutes of charging.

Yes, just like most L2 EVSEs "provide" 30A = 7.2 kW. Based on statements from others on this board, it seems the LEAF rarely pulls over 30 kW from a QC.

Unless you are going on a long trip AND have time to burn at a DC station, or if future DC stations are not available on your route, it will not make sense to use a DC charger, other than to give you sufficient range to get to your next charge location.
The concept of a "fill-up" is largely an anachronism, with a BEV.

Now, that I will agree with. I really don't get the concept of holding your speed down to 60 mph so you can get 50 miles out of a QC, then spending 25 minutes stopped for every 50 minutes on the road, for a true average speed of 40 mph.

Ray

After the first 60-70 miles at 70-60 mph, from your initial 100% charge, you would average only about 40 mph, including Charge time.

For me, this would require between 60 and 90 minutes of charge time for the 200 mile drive south to the SF Bay area, and 4 to 4 1/2 hours in total, about an hour longer than an in an ICEV, with one short pit stop.

I'd gladly accept that, and find ways to make use of my time, at one or more charge points.

I agree that most people would not want to make trips longer than 150-250 miles, regularly, in a 20 kWh (available) BEV like the LEAF.

 

[GRA]

Interview with the CEO of NRG Energy: "CEO leads NRG Energy from Nuclear to Solar, Natural Gas":
http://online.wsj.com/article/SB10001424052970204276304577265183536837766.html?mod=googlenews_wsj" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

You apparently have to be a WSJ.com subscriber to read beyond the first few sentences of that article.

Ray

You can usually hop the pay-wall at the WSJ by searching a sentence from the article, and finding a WSJ link, to the "free pass" article.

Works, for me, for this article.

And here's another story from the WSJ, describing what's happening with nukes in the rest of the world: http://online.wsj.com/article/SB10001424052970204276304577265240284295880.html" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

or google " Nuclear pushes on despite Fukushima ".

 

[edatoakrun]

Back OT, The story below looks like more bad news likely, over the Spring and Summer, for coastal gasoholics:

...A gallon of regular was only $3.33 in Colorado, for example, and in Wyoming it was $3.28, the lowest in the nation. Along the Gulf of Mexico, the price was a bit higher: $3.59 in Texas, $3.60 in Alabama and $3.62 in Louisiana. For nastier numbers, turn to the Northeast and the West Coast: $3.99 in New York and Connecticut and a whopping $4.35 in California.

Global energy markets determine the national trend for oil and gasoline prices, and those markets have been rattled by tensions with Iran. Yet energy markets are also resiliently local, as the patchwork quilt of gasoline prices illustrates. A flood of relatively cheap oil and gasoline is washing through parts of the American heartland, but it’s barely reaching consumers in the rest of the nation...

...if you are a consumer in a less-favored region, be prepared for more unpleasant price comparisons.

http://www.nytimes.com/2012/03/11/your-money/gasoline-price-disparity-seems-here-to-stay-strategies.html?_r=1&hpw" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

 

[dgpcolorado]

Back OT, The story below looks like more bad news likely, over the Spring and Summer, for coastal gasoholics:

...A gallon of regular was only $3.33 in Colorado, for example, and in Wyoming it was $3.28, the lowest in the nation. Along the Gulf of Mexico, the price was a bit higher: $3.59 in Texas, $3.60 in Alabama and $3.62 in Louisiana. For nastier numbers, turn to the Northeast and the West Coast: $3.99 in New York and Connecticut and a whopping $4.35 in California.

Global energy markets determine the national trend for oil and gasoline prices, and those markets have been rattled by tensions with Iran. Yet energy markets are also resiliently local, as the patchwork quilt of gasoline prices illustrates. A flood of relatively cheap oil and gasoline is washing through parts of the American heartland, but it’s barely reaching consumers in the rest of the nation...

...if you are a consumer in a less-favored region, be prepared for more unpleasant price comparisons.

http://www.nytimes.com/2012/03/11/your-money/gasoline-price-disparity-seems-here-to-stay-strategies.html?_r=1&hpw" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

Here in the "big city" nearest me (Montrose, population 25,000) it was $3.17/gallon on Thursday and is up to $3.27 today. Could just be lag time out here in the boondocks but that's lower than listed for Wyoming. I confess that I am surprised at the size of the disparity between states.

 

[LTLFTcomposite]

Whatever the circumstances, this shooting in Afghanistan isn't going to have a calming influence on the geopolitical front.

 

[Yodrak]

On the other hand, the NRC has approved Southern Company's application to build two new nuclear generating units in Georgia.

Interview with the CEO of NRG Energy: "CEO leads NRG Energy from Nuclear to Solar, Natural Gas":

http://online.wsj.com/article/SB10001424052970204276304577265183536837766.html?mod=googlenews_wsj" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

 

[GRA]

On the other hand, the NRC has approved Southern Company's application to build two new nuclear generating units in Feorgia.

Interview with the CEO of NRG Energy: "CEO leads NRG Energy from Nuclear to Solar, Natural Gas":

http://online.wsj.com/article/SB10001424052970204276304577265183536837766.html?mod=googlenews_wsj" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

Yes, and those, the pair in S.C. and maybe one other are the only ones that are likely to be built:

http://www.reuters.com/article/2012/02/09/us-usa-nuclear-license-idUSTRE8181T420120209" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

 

[scottf200]

Several links in this article too.

the-truth-about-gasoline-prices-and-why-politicians-are-liars

http://mapawatt.com/2012/03/11/the-truth-about-gasoline-prices-and-why-politicians-are-liars/" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

 

[EdmondLeaf]

Several links in this article too.

the-truth-about-gasoline-prices-and-why-politicians-are-liars

http://mapawatt.com/2012/03/11/the-truth-about-gasoline-prices-and-why-politicians-are-liars/" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

Should I believe this or not?

 

[Herm]

Should I believe this or not?

You should if Newt got elected, but that will never happen... plus it would be bad for our Volts and Leafs. We already tried a pervert with Clinton and he is far more likeable.

 

[Stoaty]

Even the Wall Street Journal and the Cato Institute agree that president Obama can't do anything about crude oil prices (the main cause of increased gasoline prices):

http://thinkprogress.org/romm/2012/03/12/442536/wall-street-journal-and-koch-cato-agree-not-obama-fault-crude-oil-prices-have-increased/" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

Of course, that means that Newt is full of...

 

[BRBarian]

Should I believe this or not?

You should if Newt got elected, but that will never happen... plus it would be bad for our Volts and Leafs. We already tried a pervert with Clinton and he is far more likeable.

Newt could put the entire economy into a deflationary tailspin, and then we'd have $2.50 gas. Of course, your salary would be halved too, so you might not find $2.50 so cheap.

 

[DaveinOlyWA]

speaking of halving pay. my company went thru a complete realignment of pay which reduced salaries in late 2008. since then, some pay has come back but other things like discounts on stock purchases, 401K matching, etc. has not

wondering how much longer i have to wait to get back to 2008 levels when it seems like the company is still profitable?

i guess it better to get another job instead? but then we currently have record corporate cash on hand and a slight improvement in the jobs markets but pay is still lagging inflation by a wide margin.