Gasoline May Rise Above $5 a Gallon

[MikeinDenver]

Maybe you can explain how getting that crude to port rather than selling it cheap in the mountain west will drive down gas prices. Somehow I don't think the motivation for this thing is to benefit the American motorist.

It isn't at all. It is to generate profit for those companies. Americans will not pay significantly less if the keystone is built.

 

[EngravEER]

I answered your question, now answer mine. Which one are you? And don't answer, "the guy behind the bar" :lol:

really? is this the best you can offer?
which one is your role model?

Always been a "Silent Bob" kind of guy except when dealing with internet trolls such as yourself.

And you still haven't answered my original question...

 

[LTLFTcomposite]

It isn't at all. It is to generate profit for those companies. Americans will not pay significantly less if the keystone is built.

My read on the situation is they will actually pay more. Oil is fungible, but not perfectly so, and if transportation inefficiencies create a surplus in a given location the people there will benefit through lower prices. My understanding is that's exactly what is going on with Canadian tar sand oil, hence the urgency to efficiently get access to broader markets where they can get a better price for the stuff.

 

[apvbguy]

Apparently you need to learn simple economics. Because that is exactly what would happen. Do you think if country A is willing to pay $2 more a barrel after all costs are considered more than the US it isn't going to be shipped overseas? So then to keep it here the US consumer has to pay that higher price.

here's some simpler reality for you
if country A is currently paying X for the oil and the US is able to export oil at price Y which is LOWER than price X what will happen to the prices paid for oil by country A and by others worldwide?
bzzzzt the more inventory causes prices to weaken
ok bunky here's part of the story,
you need to grasp that oil is a commodity and it is used worldwide, and barring differing grades of crude the prices paid here or in timbukt2 are going to be about the same (excluding transport costs) more supply driven into the marketplace almost always lowers price.

now for some of the reasons why fuel prices are rising here in the good old US of A
devaluation of the dollar, the balkanization of the marketplace (see CA), infrastructure issues, ethanol, seasonal refining requirements. there are dozens of things that can effect the costs of oil, the issues in the newspapers now have long been factored into the prices being paid.

you didn't even need to watch some "expert" on a corrupt tv "news" outlet to learn just a little about the second biggest game in town

 

[apvbguy]

It isn't at all. It is to generate profit for those companies. Americans will not pay significantly less if the keystone is built.

My read on the situation is they will actually pay more. Oil is fungible, but not perfectly so, and if transportation inefficiencies create a surplus in a given location the people there will benefit through lower prices. My understanding is that's exactly what is going on with Canadian tar sand oil, hence the urgency to efficiently get access to broader markets where they can get a better price for the stuff.

with all due respect, don't trade oil futures or options or even etfs based on this thinking.

 

[MikeinDenver]

Apparently you need to learn simple economics. Because that is exactly what would happen. Do you think if country A is willing to pay $2 more a barrel after all costs are considered more than the US it isn't going to be shipped overseas? So then to keep it here the US consumer has to pay that higher price.

here's some simpler reality for you
if country A is currently paying X for the oil and the US is able to export oil at price Y which is LOWER than price X what will happen to the prices paid for oil by country A and by others worldwide?
bzzzzt the more inventory causes prices to weaken
ok bunky here's part of the story,
you need to grasp that oil is a commodity and it is used worldwide, and barring differing grades of crude the prices paid here or in timbukt2 are going to be about the same (excluding transport costs) more supply driven into the marketplace almost always lowers price.

now for some of the reasons why fuel prices are rising here in the good old US of A
devaluation of the dollar, the balkanization of the marketplace (see CA), infrastructure issues, ethanol, seasonal refining requirements. there are dozens of things that can effect the costs of oil, the issues in the newspapers now have long been factored into the prices being paid.

you didn't even need to watch some "expert" on a corrupt tv "news" outlet to learn just a little about the second biggest game in town

You are missing the key points of the keystone. Right now oil gets "stuck" in the US. With the pipeline it is no longer stuck and is much easier to ship out to the rest of the world. Hence the benefit to the US is negligible or negative. As for supply, demand continues to rise so any additional supply will quickly be used up. If demand were stagnant your "theory" would be correct but it is not.

 

[MikeinDenver]

It isn't at all. It is to generate profit for those companies. Americans will not pay significantly less if the keystone is built.

My read on the situation is they will actually pay more. Oil is fungible, but not perfectly so, and if transportation inefficiencies create a surplus in a given location the people there will benefit through lower prices. My understanding is that's exactly what is going on with Canadian tar sand oil, hence the urgency to efficiently get access to broader markets where they can get a better price for the stuff.

Exactly. But those are not the facts you will hear in commercials or on a certain station etc.

 

[AndyH]

Apparently you need to learn simple economics. Because that is exactly what would happen. Do you think if country A is willing to pay $2 more a barrel after all costs are considered more than the US it isn't going to be shipped overseas? So then to keep it here the US consumer has to pay that higher price.

here's some simpler reality for you
if country A is currently paying X for the oil and the US is able to export oil at price Y which is LOWER than price X what will happen to the prices paid for oil by country A and by others worldwide?
bzzzzt the more inventory causes prices to weaken
ok bunky here's part of the story,
you need to grasp that oil is a commodity and it is used worldwide, and barring differing grades of crude the prices paid here or in timbukt2 are going to be about the same (excluding transport costs) more supply driven into the marketplace almost always lowers price.

now for some of the reasons why fuel prices are rising here in the good old US of A
devaluation of the dollar, the balkanization of the marketplace (see CA), infrastructure issues, ethanol, seasonal refining requirements. there are dozens of things that can effect the costs of oil, the issues in the newspapers now have long been factored into the prices being paid.

you didn't even need to watch some "expert" on a corrupt tv "news" outlet to learn just a little about the second biggest game in town

You are missing the key points of the keystone. Right now oil gets "stuck" in the US. With the pipeline it is no longer stuck and is much easier to ship out to the rest of the world. Hence the benefit to the US is negligible or negative. As for supply, demand continues to rise so any additional supply will quickly be used up. If demand were stagnant your "theory" would be correct but it is not.

Until January, oil was getting stuck in the Midwest and the refineries in Illinois were working hard. Because of the 'over supply,' gasoline prices in a four or five state area were below the national average. Then the southern leg of the KXL was approved and installed in spite of a number of objections to Texas' eminent domain process. Now that there's a bigger pipe from Cushing, OK to the Gulf refineries, the price of gas and diesel in the Midwest has increased. And yes, the destination refineries are in a tax-free export zone - the products are not going into American fuel tanks unless they pay global prices. The pipeline doesn't have to leak to be a bad deal for Americans.

http://www.washingtonpost.com/busin...e35abc-82bb-11e3-bbe5-6a2a3141e3a9_story.html
http://www.zerohedge.com/contribute...ne-pipeline-will-actually-raise-gas-prices-us

 

[MikeinDenver]

What are these facts you seem to be using?

 

[apvbguy]

Apparently you need to learn simple economics. Because that is exactly what would happen. Do you think if country A is willing to pay $2 more a barrel after all costs are considered more than the US it isn't going to be shipped overseas? So then to keep it here the US consumer has to pay that higher price.

here's some simpler reality for you
if country A is currently paying X for the oil and the US is able to export oil at price Y which is LOWER than price X what will happen to the prices paid for oil by country A and by others worldwide?
bzzzzt the more inventory causes prices to weaken
ok bunky here's part of the story,
you need to grasp that oil is a commodity and it is used worldwide, and barring differing grades of crude the prices paid here or in timbukt2 are going to be about the same (excluding transport costs) more supply driven into the marketplace almost always lowers price.

now for some of the reasons why fuel prices are rising here in the good old US of A
devaluation of the dollar, the balkanization of the marketplace (see CA), infrastructure issues, ethanol, seasonal refining requirements. there are dozens of things that can effect the costs of oil, the issues in the newspapers now have long been factored into the prices being paid.

you didn't even need to watch some "expert" on a corrupt tv "news" outlet to learn just a little about the second biggest game in town

You are missing the key points of the keystone. Right now oil gets "stuck" in the US. With the pipeline it is no longer stuck and is much easier to ship out to the rest of the world. Hence the benefit to the US is negligible or negative. As for supply, demand continues to rise so any additional supply will quickly be used up. If demand were stagnant your "theory" would be correct but it is not.

first off you by law cannot export US crude oil.

keystone is to bring oil from Canada to TX, if the canucks have any smarts they'll just pump the stuff to ports in BC, as for your convoluted demand theory, if more supply isn't made available to meet the alleged increased demand just where do you think prices would go?

 

[apvbguy]

Exactly. But those are not the facts you will hear in commercials or on a certain station etc.

are you really relying on TV commercials or anything on TV for data?

 

[apvbguy]

And yes, the destination refineries are in a tax-free export zone - the products are not going into American fuel tanks unless they pay global prices. The pipeline doesn't have to leak to be a bad deal for Americans.

are you suggesting that the oil/product shouldn't be sold at the highest attainable price?

 

[MikeinDenver]

And yes, the destination refineries are in a tax-free export zone - the products are not going into American fuel tanks unless they pay global prices. The pipeline doesn't have to leak to be a bad deal for Americans.

are you suggesting that the oil/product shouldn't be sold at the highest attainable price?

That isn't the point. The point is that this pipeline is put forth as a great thing for America when in fact it will be the opposite for many if not almost all Americans. The backers should be honest with the public not full of lies and deceit. If they were honest I bet the backers for it flee like rats from a sinking ship.

 

[abasile]

Climate change concerns are the primary reason many of us are opposed to furthering the development of the tar sands. I accept that oil will be likely be needed for a long time even if all transportation is electrified, owing to its use in plastics, other materials, and agriculture. However, humanity will be better off in the long run if we can avoid the most carbon-intensive sources of "oil" (actually bitumen in this case). The way to do that is to reduce oil consumption by increasing efficiency and switching to other energy sources, which will also serve to insulate the economy to a greater degree from oil price shocks. To that end, $5/gallon gasoline is not such a bad thing. It gives everyone the motivation to use our precious resources more wisely.

By the way, I'm not at all politically motivated in saying any of this. For me, global warming is a matter of science, not politics. I am a Bible-believing Christian, I have some science training and respect for scientific endeavor, and I feel that we need to be better stewards of this amazing planet. The fact that I might agree with liberal Democrats on some issues related to energy and the environment is coincidental. ;-)

 

[AndyH]

first off you by law cannot export US crude oil.

That's why the diluted bitumen is going to REFINERIES, Einstein...

keystone is to bring oil from Canada to TX, if the canucks have any smarts they'll just pump the stuff to ports in BC, as for your convoluted demand theory, if more supply isn't made available to meet the alleged increased demand just where do you think prices would go?

No, there are a number of 'Keystone' pipelines. The XL is the project that was broken into two. The KXL southern leg was pushed through - it runs from Cushing, OK to the Gulf. It's draining the tanks in the middle of the country, causing higher fuel prices for Americans, while the crude/dilbit mix is being turned into refined products and exported tax-free from the refineries on the coast.

To recap - Our fuel prices go up, we take the risks of leaks, we lose property to theft by a mult-national corporation, the taxpayer's aren't reimbursed because there are no taxes paid by the refineries, and the oil companies keep all the money when they sell gasoline and diesel to China.

There's a word for this, apvbguy, and it's not 'democracy' - it's fascism.

 

[EngravEER]

And yes, the destination refineries are in a tax-free export zone - the products are not going into American fuel tanks unless they pay global prices. The pipeline doesn't have to leak to be a bad deal for Americans.

are you suggesting that the oil/product shouldn't be sold at the highest attainable price?

It should and will be sold at the "highest attainable price"... which almost undoubtedly gets paid outside of the U.S. After all, your heroes in the ExxonMobil Board Room have only one fiduciary responsibility... to maximize profit for you and the rest of their shareholders. Can't fault 'em there. They do that quite well... to the tune of billions annually. So let's dispense with the oft-espoused, bullsh^t notion that a completed Keystone XL is going to benefit the average American by lowering the price he or she pays at the pump. The product refined from that KXL crude gets put on a tanker heading overseas to maximize the oil supply-chain profit while our citizens shoulder the risks associated with a 1,000+ miles of pipeline running through a chunk of America's Breadbasket. What's not to like? I'm sure the forum's resident oil shill will be along shortly to enlighten us on this deal we can't pass-up.

 

[MikeinDenver]

Exactly. But those are not the facts you will hear in commercials or on a certain station etc.

are you really relying on TV commercials or anything on TV for data?

I don't but your friends on the right sure do.

 

[apvbguy]

first off you by law cannot export US crude oil.

That's why the diluted bitumen is going to REFINERIES, Einstein...

are you so blinded by ideology that you don't grasp that CRUDE cannot be exported and products can be exported?
bitumen is a by product of the process and the export of refined product is permitted.
for someone who is so proud of his alleged high thinking powers.....


[balance of nonsense snipped]

 

[apvbguy]

Exactly. But those are not the facts you will hear in commercials or on a certain station etc.

are you really relying on TV commercials or anything on TV for data?

I don't but your friends on the right sure do.

you are the clever one
peace out

 

[dgpcolorado]

So much for $5 gas:

A New American Oil Bonanza

So oil prices — and those at the pump — are easing. With the Labor Day weekend approaching, the national average price for a gallon of regular gasoline was $3.43 on Thursday, according to the AAA motor club, nearly a dime lower than a month ago. Energy and travel analysts project the lowest gasoline prices this holiday weekend of any Labor Day since 2010, and the highest level of motor travel since 2008.