gas generator trailer for EV's

[GaslessInSeattle]

I don't know if such a trailer is realistic for the current leaf but the idea seems promising although a QC network is just around the corner and will give me the freedom to drive at least to the CA border without hauling a trailor or hacking the electronics. The thing that would drive me nuts about owning a volt would be driving all that extra drive train around just for the small % of time it would actually get used... Until there is a 300 mile battery pack, I've got a hybrid ICE for that... Even thinking of getting rid of the hybrid and getting an old fashioned ICE as the second car because for how little I need a long distance runner it's a lot of investment for the added efficiency and I'm concerned that it's not good for the battery pack of a hybrid to routinely just sit there for days and sometimes weeks without getting used. Things are changing so fast, its hard to know how far ahead to aim!
G

 

[LKK]

This proposal is essentially an alternate method to power an electric vehicle. As such, it seems to me a trailer with a gas generator would be of viable only if it complied with vehicle safety and emission requirements. To do anything else would comprmise the environmental benifits of the Leaf. I've been told that the gas engines used in lawn mowers and small generators pollute at levels that are orders of magnitude greater than current ICE. I don't think the EPA or the CARB would think very highly of this and I would think doing something like this might leave you open to some big fines.

The Leaf is a great car why try to make it something else?

 

[Volusiano]

This whole premise doesn't hold any gas (no pun intended) if it's not possible to charge the Leaf while it's driving. The purpose for this is not for emergency charging but for long trips. That means you don't want to have too much down time because nobody in their right mind would run down the battery and want to be sitting around for up to 7 hours in the middle of nowhere waiting for the generator to fully recharge the Leaf's battery again. That is, if there's enough gas to power the generator for that long.

 

[rmay635703]

Running through the calculations if you use the MOST EFFICIENT Yanmar diesel genset available to run the leaf (assuming you can find a DC head for the thing) in the size and voltage you want your leaf will get about 37.8mpg steady state minus many potential losses including battery charging losses if the genset runs and sends more juice than you are using.

If you use a AC gas genny your MPG will be in the 15-22mpg area depending on if you use it to charge or using it while driving which is more efficient.

The above is calculated using the 34kwh per 100 miles as a baseline.

I would strongly recommend as a been there done that EV owner to realize a couple important notes.

1. AVOID AC GENERATORS because you loose 30% off the top due to AC->DC conversion. (military DC heads only)

2. Avoid gasoline gensets (they are about 1/2 to 1/3 the eff of a prius motor with a couple exceptions)

3. Figure out your steady state KW usage at different speeds and get the smallest diesel or propane genset possible that will drive you at low speeds steady and allow you to drive further at higher speeds (afterall you just want to extend your range not make it infinate?)

My EV at 28mph using a high eff genset comes out to 93mpg, so speed is everything. (my ev draws 48v x 65amps at this speed)

If you want to plan for an Ah shite moment, fine carry a little genset but if you want a range extended you will pay good $$$ for it and the results won't be that spectacular.

If you do it anyway I strongly recommend keeping the genset small enough to be vented and ducted to run in the back of the hatch, diesel and propane are best for this purpose and smaller gensets will still allow you to extend range without taking out another mortgage to pay for the gas.

Depending on how much power the genset ofsets and the speed you go a small genset may be able to drive you along as far as you want at 38mph and extend your highway (55mph) range by 33% or more.

Good Luck
Ryan

 

[LTLFTcomposite]

...Avoid gasoline gensets (they are about 1/2 to 1/3 the eff of a prius motor with a couple exceptions)...

My experience from RV days backs that up. Diesel gensets are a lot more efficient. A trailer would be awfully cumbersome, renting a car seems easier. If it were possible to engineer something about the size and weight of an eu2000 that could attach to the back bumper it might be usable. Personally I'd rather make longer trips via our new HSR network, kicking back to the dulcet tones of Nick Rails in the club car.

 

[Yanquetino]

This whole premise doesn't hold any gas (no pun intended) if it's not possible to charge the Leaf while it's driving.

Actually, it is possible to charge the LEAF while it's driving. That's exactly what its regenerative braking does!

In point of fact, those who own the "long ranger" trailers with their RAV4-EVs tell me that the juice does not flow through the charging port, but rather through the regenerative braking "circuit" in it Power Electronics Unit. I mentioned this possibility in an earlier thread about such generators, but "ingineer" (who makes the L1 to L2 upgrade) said that there is no such "circuit" in the LEAF. Too bad, because that would be the solution!

 

[SanDust]

The Leaf is a great car why try to make it something else?

That about sums it up. If you want an EREV why not just buy one?

 

[LTLFTcomposite]

This whole premise doesn't hold any gas (no pun intended) if it's not possible to charge the Leaf while it's driving.

Actually, it is possible to charge the LEAF while it's driving. That's exactly what its regenerative braking does!

In point of fact, those who own the "long ranger" trailers with their RAV4-EVs tell me that the juice does not flow through the charging port, but rather through the regenerative braking "circuit" in it Power Electronics Unit. I mentioned this possibility in an earlier thread about such generators, but "ingineer" (who makes the L1 to L2 upgrade) said that there is no such "circuit" in the LEAF. Too bad, because that would be the solution!

I'd hate to think what this would mean for the warranty, but there must be some other way to hot wire it. The batteries are like 300 volts? If the generator puts out 301 volts and you connect it directly to the battery pack, does that do the trick?

 

[TRONZ]

The Leaf is a great car why try to make it something else?

That about sums it up. If you want an EREV why not just buy one?

+1

In the U.S. a 100 mile Armada/Titan size EV-ER (3rd row seating, 4wd) would have a market. An APU (corporate jets have wonderful Auxiliary Power Units BTW) could be configured in the front portion of a flat/box/full 5th wheel trailer leaving the rear for toy hauling/work/living.

Alot of "truck guys" spend days driving far less than 100 miles. And LOVE to drive their trucks. Just look around. They would benefit from the torque/cost performance of a substantial EV drivetrain. But a substantial trailer APU system would give them the legs to go wherever they want (on sustainable bio fuel).

So a contractor could have one vehicle/trailer/5th wheel for hauling supplies to a remote job site. Detach the APU trailer for a Sat trip to Costco with the family. Then use the APU trailer to haul a sandrail to Glamis on Sunday. Then detach the APU trailer to power the base camp while the EV goes 4 wheeling, come back recharge, repeat.

We need to look way beyond the LEAF. And never underestimate how much guys will spend on cool toys.

 

[DarkStar]

The Leaf is a great car why try to make it something else?

That about sums it up. If you want an EREV why not just buy one?

Personally, I like the LEAF because it handles 99% of my annual driving. Having a tow-behind generator that I could rent from somewhere, or buy and loan out to other LEAF owners for that 1% of the year makes sense.

 

[Electric4Me]

Personally, I like the LEAF because it handles 99% of my annual driving. Having a tow-behind generator that I could rent from somewhere, or buy and loan out to other LEAF owners for that 1% of the year makes sense.

What some of us here think is that doing a major modification to the Leaf to enable this for that 1% of the year makes NO sense when you can borrow or rent an ICE car instead. YMMV

 

[mark13]

What would it cost to fill the trailor up with a bunch of lithium rechargable batteries..I dont mind the trailor..I would just be afraid of someone stealing it at a hotel or parking lot..

 

[Volusiano]

What would it cost to fill the trailor up with a bunch of lithium rechargable batteries..I dont mind the trailor..I would just be afraid of someone stealing it at a hotel or parking lot..

But then you get into the same issue when the supplemental batteries run out. If we're going to go that route just to extend the range a little bit, might as well put the extra batteries in the trunk. In terms of the cost, I hear that the Leaf battery pack is half the cost of manufacturing already, and we know they're not making too much money off the Leaf (if any), so the Leaf battery pack is already $15k+.

In terms of stealing the trailer or generator off the trailor, I think it should not be a big issue finding ways to lock both up. I'd be more concerned about it being harder to park and back up and maneuvering around.

 

[smkettner]

For me the trailer would take the fun out of the cross country quest.
Otherwise rent a vehicle, fly, train or bus.

 

[rmay635703]

What would it cost to fill the trailor up with a bunch of lithium rechargable batteries..I dont mind the trailor..I would just be afraid of someone stealing it at a hotel or parking lot..

$100k isn't worth it.

Something that would make me support a trailer for the leaf would be something inspired by this design.
http://ecomodder.com/forum/showthread.php/full-boat-tail-trailer-gap-fillers-toyota-t-7839.html

A couple of projects on ecomodder involving toyota full size pickups net near 30mpg pulling their boattailed trailer.

One contractor leaves his trailer on hauling or not because his fuel economy is so much better.

Design a very aero lightweight boattail trailer for the leaf (anyone at ecomodder will help)

Then install a DC dynamo Diesel genset in there and enjoy the range extension with or without the genset running and have room for the camping gear.

Worth a try if you are too chicken to aeromod the car itself. Just make sure the trailer hitch mod can be undone.

Cheers
Ryan

 

[Stunt822]

This is why i came across this thread - I have 3kW genset, I have small utility trailer. I can put them together for that one trip a year - no problem. I would probably never buy a special unit.

Quetsion remains - how can I feed power into Leaf when driving?

 

[EVDrive]

This is why i came across this thread - I have 3kW genset, I have small utility trailer. I can put them together for that one trip a year - no problem. I would probably never buy a special unit.

Quetsion remains - how can I feed power into Leaf when driving?

Phil figured this out... AKA Engineer. Maybe he will share some schematics with us one of these days.

The company Enginer which makes the leaf add on trunk battery also figured this out. Maybe you should just install their expansion kit. The add on pack charges the main battery as you drive and the car thinks it is regen doing the charging.

 

[SmilingWhenSailing]

http://www.ebuggy.com" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;
Maybe this could be a solution?

 

[davewill]

It could, but it's a big capital investment to enter the business. Unfortunately, there's no standard plug-in port for the trailer, which means that every car that wants to use one would need modifications.

 

[DanCar]

... Phil figured this out... AKA Engineer. Maybe he will share some schematics with us one of these days. ...

Dear Phil, AKA Engineer, can I hook this up?
http://www.costco.com/Champion-7000W-Running--9000W-Peak-DUEL-FUEL-Generator-wElectric-Start.product.100112008.html" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;