Full 2013 Nissan LEAF Specs out

[TickTock]

Thanks. Folding rear seats do nothing for me. The child seats never come out. I didn't look at the C-Max because it's a hybrid without much AER. And I can't get over how awkward it looks.

I'm pretty much interested in the LEAF, the RAV4, and Tesla. Price and availability dictate the LEAF.

One important factor to consider is how many miles you drive daily and how fast. If you drive more then 50 miles/day with a mix of city & freeway driving I would agree with GRA that you are not going to be happy with the Leaf as it ages. However, if you drive 50 or less, you will love it and will never want to go back to gas.

 

[Bicster]

Unfortunately, IMO your location suggests that an EV with active thermal cooling is almost mandatory, so do look at the FFE anyway. If you can make it work, I'd definitely consider it a better choice battery-wise for your climate, unless you're getting a short-term (24 months) lease or your required range is half or less of the Leaf's EPA range.

That was one reason I was somewhat interested in the FFE, but Ford doesn't really want to sell the FFE. There are no FFE's on dealer lots in Houston. They didn't bring it to the auto show. I'd have to order one just to see it. And I'm not even sure how that would go; I requested a quote on one and the dealership never responded. I imagine, based on those factors, that service (if needed) could be a real nightmare.

I also have a philosophical problem of buying a lousy conversion (where the batteries are in the trunk), vs a dedicated EV platform. The RAV4 seems like a much better conversion; It's a shame it's just a CARB compliance car.

I'm not that worried about battery degradation in the LEAF, in the context of my current commuting needs and with the assumption of a short-term lease. I also think Nissan is genuinely trying to step up and fix their issues. They're getting involved with the community. There's (almost) a capacity warranty. I think they deserve some support for that. Am I crazy?

 

[Bicster]

I drive about 200 miles a week. I'm not getting rid of my minivan.

 

[TickTock]

I drive about 200 miles a week. I'm not getting rid of my minivan.

Well, if you keep the van and those 200 miles are spread out reasonably evenly, the Leaf is a great option. The key is not having to rely on an external charging infrastructure. The warranty guarantees you about 50 miles range on a single charge with ac running (give or take - more if you buy/make an after-market capacity guage like Lincomatic or SOCmeter). So you wake up each morning with a full tank and never sweat it. I love that. I do occasionally take a hit off a quick charge for odd errands but that would get old if I had to do it daily or even often.

 

[Bicster]

Ford's inventory locator sucks. I just found a Ford dealer with five 2013 Focus EV's on the lot. Maybe I'll find some time next week to check it out. I asked them for a lease quote.

 

[evnow]

Ford's inventory locator sucks. I just found a Ford dealer with five 2013 Focus EV's on the lot. Maybe I'll find some time next week to check it out. I asked them for a lease quote.

Ford includes cars that are going out in the future too ... that is one more problem.

 

[Bicster]

Ford's inventory locator sucks. I just found a Ford dealer with five 2013 Focus EV's on the lot. Maybe I'll find some time next week to check it out. I asked them for a lease quote.

Ford includes cars that are going out in the future too ... that is one more problem.

Ford claims no dealers have stock. But I found cars on a dealer's website. They're working up a lease quote for me.

I still think the Focus is a long shot for me. I don't think Ford is really behind it.

 

[RegGuheert]

I'm not that worried about battery degradation in the LEAF, in the context of my current commuting needs and with the assumption of a short-term lease.

I think you are looking at this the right way: In a hot climate like Houston, a short-term lease is the way to go. Just be sure your daily drive is less than about 40 miles. 50 miles at the most.

I also think Nissan is genuinely trying to step up and fix their issues. They're getting involved with the community. There's (almost) a capacity warranty. I think they deserve some support for that. Am I crazy?

Me, too. I think they will fix them. Just be aware that it doesn't appear that they have fixed the heat issues with the battery for 2013. While they have tweaked the chemistry slightly, it remains to be seen how the new chemistry will hold up in heat. I suspect it will be similar to the 2011/2012s. Frankly, I'm not sure even Nissan knows the answer, yet.

 

[TonyWilliams]

I also have a philosophical problem of buying a lousy conversion (where the batteries are in the trunk), vs a dedicated EV platform. The RAV4 seems like a much better conversion; It's a shame it's just a CARB compliance car.

I personally think it's a mistake to write off the Rav4 because of the motivation of the manufacturer. Tesla doesn't build compliance cars, but simply the best EVs currently available.

I predict that out of state (California) sales of Rav4 will be significant, simply because it is such a great car with a unique mission. How many other SUV type EVs are there? How many can do 0-60mph in 7 seconds of every single EV? How many can haul 5 people and all their suitcases for a trip? How many can drive off pavement comfortably? How many can smoke the tires ;-) ?

 

[surfingslovak]

I personally think it's a mistake to write off the Rav4 because of the motivation of the manufacturer. Tesla doesn't build compliance cars, but simply the best EVs currently available.

I would have to agree. The RAV4 is a very capable EV, outstanding even. To be fair, car purchases are an emotional thing. One of the reasons I got the LEAF was that I wanted to support Nissan, given how much they invested in their EV program. And I believe that I was not the only one pursuing this rationale. Look how well that worked out.

I'm much less willing to let emotions play a role in my next EV purchase. Sure, out of all the manufacturers, Tesla is likely the most "worthy" of my support. That said, their vehicles are not exactly affordable transportation, although I know several people who have stretched their budget to make it work.

I have considered going that route, and had a fairly low reservation number. If I don't get the BMW i3, my next car will be either a Model S 60 kWh or a RAV4. Why? Range. And in the case of the Model S: super charger network. The RAV is significantly less expensive than the base Model S, and I'm pretty sure that I could stretch the range and utilize some of the Tesla 70A level 2 stations. That said, I would still consider a LEAF lease also, as an affordable city runabout, but only after the QC network is in place.

 

[Stanton]

I still think the Focus is a long shot for me. I don't think Ford is really behind it.

I came to the same conclusion; I think it's one step above a CARB compliant car (which means it could disappear at any time). Nissan designed/developed an entire EV platform down to the battery CELL: I believe the form/fit/function of their battery pack indicates they intend to support (and even upgrade) those modules/packs for years to come.

 

[surfingslovak]

I came to the same conclusion; I think it's one step above a CARB compliant car (which means it could disappear at any time). Nissan designed/developed an entire EV platform down to the battery CELL: I believe the form/fit/function of their battery pack indicates they intend to support (and even upgrade) those modules/packs for years to come.

Yes, but you have to wonder. Why is Nissan apparently the only EV maker, who does not have a price tag on their battery pack? Why will it take half a year for them to provide one, and only after the owner community insisted on it?

 

[GRA]

I also have a philosophical problem of buying a lousy conversion (where the batteries are in the trunk), vs a dedicated EV platform. The RAV4 seems like a much better conversion; It's a shame it's just a CARB compliance car.

I personally think it's a mistake to write off the Rav4 because of the motivation of the manufacturer. Tesla doesn't build compliance cars, but simply the best EVs currently available.

I predict that out of state (California) sales of Rav4 will be significant, simply because it is such a great car with a unique mission. How many other SUV type EVs are there? How many can do 0-60mph in 7 seconds of every single EV? How many can haul 5 people and all their suitcases for a trip? How many can drive off pavement comfortably? How many can smoke the tires ;-) ?

The big problem with the RAV4 for Bicster isn't that it's a compliance car, it's how do they get one and where would they go should it need any major service? Shipping the car from Texas to California any time there's a problem isn't much of an option.

 

[TonyWilliams]

The big problem with the RAV4 for Bicster isn't that it's a compliance car, it's how do they get one and where would they go should it need any major service? Shipping the car from Texas to California any time there's a problem isn't much of an option.

I disagree. There are no service bits in the Tesla drive train, so you ordinarily will get service repairs done by a regular old Toyota dealer (as the warranty clearly spells out). The only time you'd require a Tesla component repair would mean something would have to physically fail, in which case it is possible that a local Toyota can have the part shipped for installation. There's always the option that something could be worked out with a local Tesla service center.

If the car requires more difficult repairs that absolutely require a Rav4 tech, ya, you gamble that you'll have to ship it both ways.

So, you won't have to "ship it" any time there is a problem.

 

[Herm]

Yes, but you have to wonder. Why is Nissan apparently the only EV maker, who does not have a price tag on their battery pack? Why will it take half a year for them to provide one, and only after the owner community insisted on it?

for marketing reasons, its an ugly number and it will be used against the Leaf. Why are you insisting that Nissan publish that number?.. do you need a battery now?

 

[Bicster]

I'm too nervous about the service aspect of the Rav4 EV. Are firmware updates handled "over the air" for that vehicle? Also, why the hell aren't they selling? They're fabulous. Who wouldn't want a Tesla powertrain?

Nissan needs to price the battery pack for a number of reasons. Have they even priced the modules? How do you repair collision damage to the pack if you can't buy parts?

 

[cwerdna]

I'm too nervous about the service aspect of the Rav4 EV. Are firmware updates handled "over the air" for that vehicle? Also, why the hell aren't they selling? They're fabulous. Who wouldn't want a Tesla powertrain?

Nissan needs to price the battery pack for a number of reasons. Have they even priced the modules? How do you repair collision damage to the pack if you can't buy parts?

I'm guessing partly that they aren't selling because of the lack of awareness. Even though the Rav4 EV is a CA compliance car, I've seen 0 TV ads for it. I don't think I've seen ads online for it either. And, I think the up front cost of a MSRP of $50K before tax incentives/rebates and Toyota incentives (which aren't that widely known) is another turnoff. Compare that to the up front MSRPs of the '12 ICEV Rav4 at http://www.toyota.com/rav4/trims-prices.html" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;.

I suspect that some who are aware of the Rav4 EV aren't aware of is Tesla drivetrain and battery pack.

And, unfortunately, the pure BEV market isn't very large, in general. You can see the numbers at http://www.hybridcars.com/december-2012-dashboard" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;.

Dianne Whitmire (well known saleswoman) over at Priuschat posted on Wednesday that she has 16 '12 Rav4 EVs.

To top it off, the next gen ('13 Rav4, http://www.toyota.com/upcoming-vehicles/rav4/" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false is coming out soon. OTOH, I don't know when it goes on sale.

As for pricing the pack, I suspect that Nissan didn't see a need to price it for collision damage reasons because if crash were so bad as to damage the entire pack, the car would be totaled anyway. If you watch the Andy Palmer video at http://www.mynissanleaf.com/viewtopic.php?f=27&t=10257" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;, he essentially claims that at Nissan, they had never originally envisioned a customer paying to have their entire battery pack replaced. http://www.mynissanleaf.com/viewtopic.php?p=220120" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false; has a link to the almost 2 hour long Phoenix meeting. He goes into the why about no battery pack price, still and promised spring, for the price. Skip to the 18 min mark to listen to his reasons.

 

[evnow]

Nissan should just announce replacement pack prices for year 2016, paid now, like Tesla has.

 

[TEG]

...To top it off, the next gen ('13 Rav4, http://www.toyota.com/upcoming-vehicles/rav4/" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false is coming out soon. OTOH, I don't know when it goes on sale...

I have already seen one of those new ones driving around on the road...
Yeah, they will make the EV version looked dated already.

 

[cwerdna]

...To top it off, the next gen ('13 Rav4, http://www.toyota.com/upcoming-vehicles/rav4/" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false is coming out soon. OTOH, I don't know when it goes on sale...

I have already seen one of those new ones driving around on the road...
Yeah, they will make the EV version looked dated already.

Ahh, yes, may already be available given I just found http://www.toyotaofnaperville.com/blog/2013-toyota-rav4-in-naperville/" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;, posted on 1/24/13.