Fresh meat

[CaptainDean]

You are going to hear a lot about LeafSpy. It is a (IMHO) must-have for a leaf of that age. It's an app that runs on Android or iOS, but it does require a bluetooth ...

Today I attempted to connect via Bluetooth with my Android phone. There was already a Bluetooth device listed so I did not want to erase the one already stored. If I add my Android phone device will the Leaf erase the previous one and only list mine, or will it simply list 2 devices?

 

[cwerdna]

The only charge method that may age car has is QC, and I'm assuming that either your car doesn't have it (big second charging port next to the L-2 port) or there isn't a QC charging station there.

Seems like this car only has the quick charge connection?

NO! That car ONLY has the J1772 inlet.

It does NOT have the CHAdeMO inlet, which is for DC fast charging/quick charging.

One with CHAdeMO would have another inlet on the left. See http://sfbayleafs.org/commentary/2013/09/2013-vs-2011-nissan-leaf-whats-new-whats-gone-whats-changed/ under "Charging port hatch with remote keyfob release and light, option to lock the plug in place". (The light for that area is new to '13+...)

My current Leaf, pictured at http://www.mynissanleaf.com/viewtopic.php?p=433513#p433513 also does NOT have CHAdeMO.

 

[cwerdna]

I haven't had a chance to read all the posts/responses.

And that, my guess, is your problem. When I saw the 8K on the dash, I figured this to be a car that does a lot of parking. Leafs like to go. The more it sits, the harder it is on the battery. Especially if you charge it up to 100% capacity and let it sit for extended periods.

I wouldn't be so concerned about the sitting part.

The bigger concern is it sitting at high state of charge for a long time, esp. in high temps.

See table 3 at http://batteryuniversity.com/learn/article/how_to_prolong_lithium_based_batteries and table 2 at http://batteryuniversity.com/learn/article/how_to_store_batteries. Note: These are not necessarily for the specific li-ion variant used i in the Leaf. http://batteryuniversity.com/learn/article/types_of_lithium_ion describes the numerous variants.

Executive Director is complaining the battery is failing early and wants a new one for free.

On what basis? If it loses 4 capacity bars within 5 years/60K miles, it can be replaced via the capacity warranty. If you haven't lost that, Nissan dealers will likely say that can't do anything for you, short of installing a new $5500 pack + labor and kit (http://www.mynissanleaf.com/viewtopic.php?f=4&t=17168) if you wish to replace it early for some reason or after the capacity warranty's over.

The above warranty's described at http://www.mynissanleaf.com/viewtopic.php?t=13192.

Within 8 years/100K miles, if there are bad cells or a bad connection in the pack, that can be repaired. (Yes, a few folks have had either one of these and thus a repair.) Or, if the vehicle cannot move to a defect in the pack within 8 years/100K miles, that'll be covered.

The 8 year/100K mile battery pack defect warranty is described in your warranty booklet. You can also d/l a copy at https://owners.nissanusa.com/nowners/navigation/manualsGuide.

If the Executive Director's complaints are based on facts, then the battery has recovered some -- enough to not qualify for a free battery replacement. Bummer.

I don't know what you mean by "recovered". The battery begins degrading from day 1. It will keep on degrading from that point forward. I don't know what you mean by "recovered some". I don't think there's anything you can to do reverse that.

 

[LeftieBiker]

I'm guessing that the "ED" (don't call him that to his face) has just gotten used to driving the car, thus improving the range a bit.

 

[golfcart]

Answer 1: Golfcart, Performance is excellent. The Executive Director is complaining the battery is failing early and wants a new one for free. As it is turning out, it seems we have been treating the car improperly, thus causing the battery to lose Bars prematurely. At first we charged after each drive, but now we charge only after the Guess-O-Meter gets down to ~15 miles. Secondly we have been allowing the car to sit for long periods and only going to check the mail 2 miles away. After reading everyone's wisdom in the forum, I understand the Leaf battery wants to be exercised and taxed daily, and not ignored.

If the Executive Director's complaints are based on facts, then the battery has recovered some -- enough to not qualify for a free battery replacement. Bummer.

Now I understand the situation... it is mostly just the allure of the free battery. I felt the same way when I heard that it was an option, I started calculating ways to kill my batter within 5 years but then realized that is probably a poor plan. haha. Honestly though, given that age and temperature seem to be the dominant factors in degradation I am not so sure that your battery is prematurely losing bars. While it is hard to make any concrete judgements until you get leafspy going, you are showing 10 bars of remaining capacity in this picture

which seems reasonably typical for a 2011 in a fairly warm climate regardless of miles.

Just as an aside, given the picture you showed of the dash display after a "full charge", is it possible that you have the car set to charge to 80% rather than 100%? I have a 2015 so this feature is not available on my car but I have read that earlier models give you that option. Just looking at that photo the car is clearly not fully charged with only 7 "charge bars" illuminated. If that is the case, maybe you could set it to charge to 100% and your boss will think you have just added 25% to the capacity of the vehicle... which would make you look like a genius. LOL See owners manual CH-20 for info on "long life mode".

http://www.vadennissanservicecontracts.com/owners-manual/nissan/2011-Nissan-Leaf.pdf

Answer 2: As the crow flies, the Kona airport is about 1000' away. However by road, it's actually about 4 1/2 miles away. The car was taken to Waimea (halfway to Hilo) and had to be towed back. So no one takes it further than into town, which is a maximum of 10-12 miles away. That includes hills.

It seems like if one was comfortable with the car and aware of their use of regenerative braking that you could make it back from Waimea on a basically dead battery and arrive with 10 miles of range or so since Kona airport is about about 50' above sea level and Waimea is about 2500' above sea level.

 

[golfcart]

Off topic, I used to work at the solar plant in the Natural Energy Lab in Kona. While you were teaching Meteorology, did you learn and teach the Analemma? I learned a great deal about our solar weather from the Analemma. Build one at home and you'll have fun.

We discussed a computer simulation of it but the time constraints of the class sort of limit how much of the year we can plot (4 month semester). There are lots of great experiments you can do to help visualize the basic principles of meteorology and that is certainly one of them.

Each island has 4 cardinal sides, and each west side is hot, each east side is rainy, each south side is windy, and each north side is rainy & windy.

This is more or less true and there are two primary reasons for this.

1) The dominant weather pattern near the Hawaiian Islands is steady trade winds blowing from the Northeast due to a semi-permanent sub-tropical high pressure area that sits over the northeast pacific. This is strongest in the summer and weakest in the winter but it holds probably 70% of the time most years.

2) The islands are basically remnants of old volcanos with peaks in the middle of the island. So when the NE trade winds blow over the mountains the wind is blowing upslope in the North and East sides of the island. This forces relatively warm moist air upward causing the air to cool and the moisture inside to condense out and form clouds and rain. Conversely, the S and W sides of the island tend have air descending down off the mountain. Since the moisture was "squeezed out" already when it went up the mountain, the air on the S and W sides of the island tend to be dryer and warmer. A good cartoon showing this is here

That is why when you get "kona winds" this pattern tends to reverse and all hell breaks loose. LOL

A lot of people asked me why I would to study meteorology at UH because they said "it is just 85 degrees and NE trade winds all year" and "wouldn't it be more interesting to study in Oklahoma or something where there are severe thunderstorms and tornadoes". Which is basically true, but the topography and available moisture actually make it pretty interesting to study all of the microclimates and atmospheric interactions with the mountains in Hawaii. It really is a fascinating place... fortunately my wife is from there so we get to visit pretty regularly and stay with the inlaws for free.

 

[Jefe]

You are going to hear a lot about LeafSpy. It is a (IMHO) must-have for a leaf of that age. It's an app that runs on Android or iOS, but it does require a bluetooth ...

Today I attempted to connect via Bluetooth with my Android phone. There was already a Bluetooth device listed so I did not want to erase the one already stored. If I add my Android phone device will the Leaf erase the previous one and only list mine, or will it simply list 2 devices?

Connecting to the entertainment system isn't what you want anyway. You're going to have to buy an OBDII bluetooth adapter.

Like this: http://www.amazon.com/LELink-Bluetooth-Energy-OBD-II-Diagnostic/dp/B00QJRYMFC

And THAT is what you want to connect to.

 

[LeftieBiker]

Yes, and there is an always-on diagnostic port underneath the dash, near where your left knee is while driving, in which to plug the code reading device. The car has to be On (and I believe in Ready Mode) for it to work properly. I suggest you check out the topics here devoted to the Android version of Leaf Spy.

 

[CaptainDean]

That is why when you get "kona winds" this pattern tends to reverse and all hell breaks loose. LOL

This is an excellent picture. Hilo is on the extreme left coast, Kona is on the extreme right coast.

 

[CaptainDean]

You're going to have to buy an OBDII bluetooth adapter.
Like this: http://www.amazon.com/LELink-Bluetooth-Energy-OBD-II-Diagnostic/dp/B00QJRYMFC
And THAT is what you want to connect to.

Will this Bluetooth OBDII diagnostic adapter work on any ODBII compliant vehicle?

I spoke with the Executive Director today. Turns out he has been looking at the left side of the dashboard display (battery temperature) thinking it was the health of the battery. He saw the 'thermometer' symbol and thought 'nurse' which equated to 'health'. Now he understands the battery is in much better condition than he thought, so he's good now.

He downloaded a "Nissan Connect" app for his iPhone which apparently did not provide much 'poking around' capability for him.

I made some adjustments to the settings today.
The charge has been set to 100% all this time, so I changed it to 80%.
The timers were off, I set Timer1 ON and accepted the already set times (9AM start, 5AM stop). I will turn it OFF again tomorrow.
Read about the "Charge Now" button, it's better to have the timers off than teach everyone to press the Charge Now button.

Thanks everyone, you have helped me look good already. I'll keep you posted of future developments.

 

[cwerdna]

^^^
I haven't read what you're totally trying to achieve, but you can do that the midnight to midnight 80% timer trick as described at http://www.mynissanleaf.com/viewtopic.php?p=123580#p123580. That's the only way to limit a 2011 or 2012 Leaf to 80%. I guess you could also do 6 am to 6 am, but I've never done that.

On the '13 (mine), you can do the above trick OR, you can use the "long-life mode" setting elsewhere (new to '13) that doesn't require you to use/take up a timer.

 

[CaptainDean]

I enjoy the computer simulations as well. Mostly I work with ocean currents and find PacIOOS Voyage Mobile an excellent resource.
http://oos.soest.hawaii.edu/pacioos/voyager/mobile/index.html
We have 5500 feet of 16 inch pipe that floated away but still has the distant end moored to the sea floor. Occasionally the broken-off seashore end floats to the surface, but only when the currents reverse on themselves. That is about 2 hours during a 7-day week. Sometimes it is not visible for over a month because of the Gyres in the Pacific. PacIOOS Voyage Mobile modeling has provided accurate time frames for us to find the pipe and attach buoys and strobes. When it gets pushed under by the currents, it goes beyond 'crush depth' of inflatable buoys and some strobes.

PacIOOS Voyager Mobile

 

[CaptainDean]

Connecting to the entertainment system isn't what you want anyway. You're going to have to buy an OBDII bluetooth adapter.
Like this: http://www.amazon.com/LELink-Bluetooth-Energy-OBD-II-Diagnostic/dp/B00QJRYMFC
And THAT is what you want to connect to.

Just purchased an ODB-II connection device that handles WiFi and Bluetooth using iOS, Android or Windows.
http://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B00WPW6BAE?psc=1&redirect=true&ref_=oh_aui_detailpage_o00_s00

Not sure if this will work for the 2011 Leaf, but I will be able to use it at home on all my vehicles as well.

 

[cwerdna]

Just purchased an ODB-II connection device that handles WiFi and Bluetooth using iOS, Android or Windows.
http://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B00WPW6BAE?psc=1&redirect=true&ref_=oh_aui_detailpage_o00_s00

Not sure if this will work for the 2011 Leaf, but I will be able to use it at home on all my vehicles as well.

Is there a reason you bought that one? Did anyone on MNL or other Leaf forums report success w/that particular exact model of dongle?

For instance, it's not listed at http://www.electricvehiclewiki.com/Leaf_Spy_Pro#Clone_ELM327_Bluetooth_Scanner.

 

[CaptainDean]

Did anyone on MNL or other Leaf forums report success w/that particular exact model of dongle? For instance, it's not listed at http://www.electricvehiclewiki.com/Leaf_Spy_Pro#Clone_ELM327_Bluetooth_Scanner.

Uh oh, I've been caught.

Actually, I realized I made an impulse buy and impulse post about it almost immediately after posting my last message. Soon as I finished the purchase, I looked back at the LELink Bluetooth description and realized my purchase didn't claim any of the electric vehicle controls capabilities. Seems that I only purchased a WiFi - Bluetooth compatible MDB-II code reader.

My biggest attraction to the 'impulse buy model' was having multiple wireless protocols. My company phone is a Windows phone, which is not an iPhone nor Android.

So, as before, I've been caught. Somebody should meet me behind the shed and give me 20 lashes.

 

[cwerdna]

Did anyone on MNL or other Leaf forums report success w/that particular exact model of dongle? For instance, it's not listed at http://www.electricvehiclewiki.com/Leaf_Spy_Pro#Clone_ELM327_Bluetooth_Scanner.

Uh oh, I've been caught.

Actually, I realized I made an impulse buy and impulse post about it almost immediately after posting my last message. Soon as I finished the purchase, I looked back at the LELink Bluetooth description and realized my purchase didn't claim any of the electric vehicle controls capabilities. Seems that I only purchased a WiFi - Bluetooth compatible MDB-II code reader.

It doesn't need to claim any EV control capabilities and it may not anyway. It just needs to be compatible w/the command set (they resembles Hayes AT modem commands) and the version that Leaf Spy requires, as well as supporting the right wireless standard (e.g. Bluetooth or wi-fi) for the device you're connecting to.

Buying random ones and wanting it to work is a bad idea. You're best off getting one from the list or that someone has reported success with.

I bought http://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B009F4JHHO?psc=1&redirect=true&ref_=oh_aui_detailpage_o06_s00 for $7.82 as sold by ToysNGamesEtc back in June 2015. This one works great for me, but it MAY not for you due to some manufacturers cheaping out and not implementing any/all the commands Turbo3 (Leaf Spy author) needs in later/other revisions of what appears to be the same product. YMMV.

I was in a time crunch as my lease Leaf was ending and I needed a dongle to check battery condition of used Leafs. I also bought http://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B00PJPHEBO?psc=1&redirect=true&ref_=od_aui_detailpages00 for $12.99 from Ace Deal in the same order. I haven't tried it yet, but should.

Since they were cheap and I was in a time crunch, I was ok w/blowing $ on 1 that didn't work, but hoping at least 1 would work.

I also bought http://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B007ZN0JKG?psc=1&redirect=true&ref_=od_aui_detailpages00 sold by BEST.CHOICES to avoid wearing out the car's OBD2 connector. That works great. I bought some adhesive cable clips at Office Depot or Max to secure the cable and keep it out of the way of my legs and feet.

 

[CaptainDean]

Thanks Cwerdna for the YMMV (Your Method May Vary) post. When it arrives I will let everyone know whether it works or not.

The one you bought and like
http://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B009F4JHHO/?tag=myelecarfor-20&?psc=1&redirect=true&ref_=oh_aui_detailpage_o06_s00
has a good description of protocols it is compliant with. I'll look in the Leaf owner's manual to see if it lists compatible protocols, instruction sets, etc.

This is an excellent learning process. "Thanks" go to you and all others that have posted !!

 

[cwerdna]

Thanks Cwerdna for the YMMV (Your Method May Vary) post. When it arrives I will let everyone know whether it works or not.

The one you bought and like
http://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B009F4JHHO/?tag=myelecarfor-20&?psc=1&redirect=true&ref_=oh_aui_detailpage_o06_s00
has a good description of protocols it is compliant with. I'll look in the Leaf owner's manual to see if it lists compatible protocols, instruction sets, etc.

IMHO, you're wasting your time by looking in the owner's manual. It won't talk about that.

See below for more background info.
http://www.obdii.com/connector.html
http://www.mynissanleaf.com/viewtopic.php?p=232645#p232645
http://www.mynissanleaf.com/viewtopic.php?t=4131

The adapters that Leaf Spy (at least the Android version) talks to are ELM327 and some clones. The commands are apparently like https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hayes_command_set#The_basic_Hayes_command_set. (I used to have to muck directly w/Hayes AT commands back in the modem days, like to come up w/the "perfect" init string or to write values to the modem's NVRAM so that when I did an ATZ, it would have all the values I wanted.)
http://www.mynissanleaf.com/viewtopic.php?t=17464
http://www.mynissanleaf.com/viewtopic.php?t=12098 (at quick glance, the most useful posts there are probably from Turbo3 (Leaf Spy author) and garygid who originally discovered a unit that people named in his honor, gids and was behind the original gid meter http://www.wwwsite.com/puzzles/socmeter/ and http://www.saxton.org/tom_saxton/2012/01/leaf-soc-meter-build.html)

Again, please see http://www.electricvehiclewiki.com/Leaf_Spy_Pro#Clone_ELM327_Bluetooth_Scanner and the post pointed to about "2.1" adapters at http://www.mynissanleaf.com/viewtopic.php?f=44&t=14284&hilit=android&start=150#p395284.

The extension cable/splitter recommendation is mentioned at http://www.electricvehiclewiki.com/Leaf_Spy_Pro#Extension_Cable_or_Splitter_Cable. I totally concur. I doubt the car's connector was made for lot of mating (disconnect/connect) cycles. It's highly likely they only intended each cycle happen when you take it into the dealer and not much more often than that.

 

[CaptainDean]

Cwerdna,

Thanks for the links. Today a friend of mine and I poured concrete down my 10' tall, 30' long block wall so I'm pooped. I should complain... he did all the ladder climbing and small concrete bucket hoisting, I just shoveled gravel sand and concrete powder.

While chilling tonight, I did visit each of your links. The first was especially interesting about the OBD-II connector and all the automotive manufacturers running their own protocols. Just when you think that all vehicles are becoming more identical, this comes along. Apparently the 2011 Leaf uses CAN protocol.

I started getting involved with computers when the first IBM-compatible personal computers came out. They ran DOS 3.3 and had programs (before being called applications) like Word Star and Lotus 1-2-3. We did examine code for modems but only for curiosity sake.

The pillow is calling my name so I'm signing off. zzzzzzzzzzzz

 

[LeftieBiker]

It's not surprising that people would think that the Leaf owner's manual would mention this stuff - these manuals are enormous. Nissan has been remarkably tight-lipped about the internal workings of the battery pack and associated systems, though, and the people here and elsewhere who got into them and made the information accessible anyway should be proud.