feeling like giving up on electric

[apvbguy]

I had the same feeling after owning Leaf for a while so traded in for Volt when I had the chance without much loss and since then the feeling is gone. Volt is perfect transition to the future of electric world without the stress and anxiety that comes with fully electric car.

I am beginning to agree more and more with the conclusion that you've come to, I would really love to get the tesla but I am still troubled by it's high cost and the lack of local to me service centers.

 

[Valdemar]

I'm not troubled by the Tesla's high cost, I'm troubled by the fact I don't have the money to buy it

 

[Bicster]

I'm not troubled by the Tesla's high cost, I'm troubled by the fact I don't have the money to buy it

Tesla's #1 mission is to address that! (By making cheaper cars, not by persuading you to buy an 80k car)

 

[IBELEAF]

Basically, when we have an affordable (below 35k) around 200 range electric I would revisit them, until then I will have to "suffer" with the plugins. At this rate perhaps 5 years?

 

[LTLFTcomposite]

You can safely work your way through a Volt lease without worrying about missing out on the model e. Maybe even twice over. I'm a big fan of tesla but also think they face some huge challenges with that program.

 

[GaslessInSeattle]

Basically, when we have an affordable (below 35k) around 200 range electric I would revisit them, until then I will have to "suffer" with the plugins. At this rate perhaps 5 years?

The Volt is a great fit for folks who need that flexibility, no shame in that!

 

[Nubo]

I've got nothing against the Volt at all. It's a great idea and seems to be well-implemented. For me personally, there's a lot of satisfaction, and some benefits, from going gas-free. Not the least of which is demonstrating that it can be done. Gets people thinking about possibilities when they see a real EV on the roads, doing "real-car" things. So that 2,5,10 years when the utility of EVs is further improved, the familiarity makes adoption all the faster.

 

[davidcary]

Agree with a lot said about the Volt. Good compromise vehicle but not the same psychologically as going completely gas free. For a lot of people, it is pretty close from a practical sense.

My big issue with the Volt is that it would have allowed my to road trip with better mpg than our alternative and a short part of that as an EV. But it is too small to road trip in with my family. I could do it sometimes but I would always be trying to fit everything and that would be a stress.

The holy grail of a 200 mile EV being 35k is way more than 5 years away - unfortunately. Tesla won't do it. Just because they say they will do it doesn't mean they will. I suspect 200 miles will be the luxury Gen III which will transact at $50k. They might make a 150 and get it to 35k pretty stripped, but 200 miles won't be $35k (and they have never really promised that).

 

[jhm614]

I am beginning to agree more and more with the conclusion that you've come to, I would really love to get the tesla but I am still troubled by it's high cost and the lack of local to me service centers.

No help with the price but the Tesla website lists the Jacksonville service center as coming soon: http://www.teslamotors.com/service/jacksonville" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

 

[apvbguy]

I've got nothing against the Volt at all. It's a great idea and seems to be well-implemented. For me personally, there's a lot of satisfaction, and some benefits, from going gas-free. Not the least of which is demonstrating that it can be done. Gets people thinking about possibilities when they see a real EV on the roads, doing "real-car" things. So that 2,5,10 years when the utility of EVs is further improved, the familiarity makes adoption all the faster.

I agree that EVs could be/ should be the future of auto/truck/bus transportation however that time is still in the future.
for example are real car things driving 10-20 MPH under the speed limit so to conserve range, is driving in the bitter cold without using the heater to save energy a real car experience? is having to diligently research your days driving a real car experience? sadly the answer is no these are not real car experiences.

the LEAF in particular is a great car for many people however IMHO it is NOT ready for prime time, the masses will not/ do not want to deal with the many limitations of the car.

 

[apvbguy]

I am beginning to agree more and more with the conclusion that you've come to, I would really love to get the tesla but I am still troubled by it's high cost and the lack of local to me service centers.

No help with the price but the Tesla website lists the Jacksonville service center as coming soon: http://www.teslamotors.com/service/jacksonville" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

that is good news and is just another nudge that will get me into a TESLA

 

[GaslessInSeattle]

... They might make a 150 and get it to 35k pretty stripped, but 200 miles won't be $35k (and they have never really promised that).

you could be right, on the other hand, Tesla has already gotten the price down to something like $270 a kW. by gen III, they will likely be making their own batteries in the giga factory for much less. either way, the price of batteries is going down a lot as the production and competition is skyrocketing, just from EV's alone. I think it's entirely possible that 200 miles is the base for Gen III with 3-400 miles being an upgrade option. from what I know of batteries so far, large cheap battery packs are the future and key to mass adoption, and they are within reach! to achieve the highest super charging speed, mid pack charging is required and shallow mid pack cycling is best for long life, so larger batteries will be preferred down the line, large enough for mid pack cycling like with the Volt today, but where the pack is large enough that cycling the inner 30-40% of the pack will be adequate for the vast majority of trips. at 135 kWh's, charging the middle of the pack on a super charger will be super fast, like stop for a quick drink fast. Tesla is placing charging station in the ground with this capability already. larger packs will make stopping to charge even more of a rarity, for only the occasional long trip.

fortunately, I believe that EV adoption is steady enough now that it's not so critical that every last person who might even possibly be able to stretch the Leaf to fit their lifestyle need to do it. If the Leaf or any other EV on the market yet doesn't meet your needs, don't sweat it, much better options are coming and the market is large enough that it's virtually guaranteed that economy of scale is growing fast enough to totally dominate the gas car industry, it's just a matter of time now.

 

[Axel]

Thanks for all the replies. My commute is 37 miles each way, I usually only need a couple of hours of boost. But here in Mountain View, there is no charging etiquette, people hog stations and even when they're done charging, they leave them there. Within one block from my office, there are over 20 charging stations. Before xmas, I could still find one open somewhere. Now, this has become impossible. All stations are completely booked. What's worse is that many people who don't need them plug in just because they have an electric vehicle.

I used to be able to make the round trip from my home charge if I drove 55 MPH, but now, this is not possible as the range has declined significantly.

There are dealers nearby that have QC, but we're talking about an hour added to my commute.

Due to the ridiculously poor charging infrastructure, I don't see a bright future for electric cars, at least not for folks like me that want to commute somewhere over 30 miles each way. There are about twice as many electric cars now as there are charging stations, and it's going to only get worse.

Our next car will be a plug in hybrid, we will be giving up on the pure electric until the higher range batteries are no longer restricted to just rich people.

 

[Stoaty]

Due to the ridiculously poor charging infrastructure, I don't see a bright future for electric cars, at least not for folks like me that want to commute somewhere over 30 miles each way.

Yes, but as soon as BEV have a little longer range (say 120 miles) at a reasonable price, the need for charging during a work day will be eliminated for most commuters.

 

[Graffi]

IMHO, no science here, just speculation, a majority of those plugged in DO NOT NEED the charge for their daily commute but use it because it is there and they got their first. As more EV drivers get used to their vehicles and it's capability you will see less charging anywhere but home (except for the occasional trip). I do not use the dealer DCQC anymore unless I need a little extra just to get home after driving around on the weekend. In the beginning I would go there to top off the battery if I was anywhere close to that area. Now I drive right by and do not even stop.

However, it may take a little education to get more of the EV drivers to think of others. Maybe a nice little note on the windshield letting them know that at least one other EV driver NEEDED charging and could not because they were blocking the space and NOT charging. /// Is there a .pdf of these types of notes, including ICE blockages, already available for printing???

 

[uwskier20]

The easy solution to this is to make it a parking infraction to not actively be charging. That's the law here in Washington State, although it is seldom enforced, unfortunately.

 

[walterbays]

However, it may take a little education to get more of the EV drivers to think of others. Maybe a nice little note on the windshield letting them know that at least one other EV driver NEEDED charging and could not because they were blocking the space and NOT charging. /// Is there a .pdf of these types of notes, including ICE blockages, already available for printing???

This can help: http://www.mynissanleaf.com/viewtopic.php?p=228973#p228973 And once people start to think about sharing the plug it's a short step to think about sharing the space.

Of course Blink did us all a disservice impeding plug sharing with their $1/hr prices rounded up. I wish the new owners would make it $0.02/min or $0.03/min.

(Yes that's a higher price if you always stay for whole hours. Besides reviving plug sharing I'd like for Blink to make some profit and decide to maintain their charging stations and install new ones.)

 

[uwskier20]

One idea I like is ramping up the cost after charging is finished, maybe after a grace period. So, perhaps charge $0.02-0.03/min while charging and for up to 30 minutes after charging, then ramp up to, say, $0.10/min, depending on the popularity of the location. Of course, a daily maximum could be applied, but it would be enough to discourage abuse.

 

[smkettner]

I would try to get into work earlier. Then lead by example, giving up the station when charged.
Might even ask HR to set some type of priority policy or limit the hours. Dual fuel 2 hours, pure electric 4 hours? or 1 & 3?
Or suggest a nominal fee as long as a vehicle is connected if they are networked stations.

Sorry about the issues. These growing pains are going to be tough at times

 

[KJD]

Thanks for all the replies. My commute is 37 miles each way, I usually only need a couple of hours of boost.

You should talk to the building manager about putting a 2 hour limit on these EV parking spaces.