Fast Low Cost Charging - All EVSE Questions Answered!

[Ingineer]

Picked up my Leaf yesterday and asked at the dealer for another 110v charge thingy. He said as soon as they get one, they send it off to be converted (presumably to Phil). And that they had two in progress. I was highly surprised because it is Nissan that has foisted off this whole J1772 $2000 home charging station scam on us and I would expect them to be opposed to any cost effective alternatives to their recommendations. I certainly would have expected Nissan to have supplied a Phil-like device if they wanted to be cost effective.

Keep in mind there is a big difference from the Dealer and Nissan Corporate. Dealers have learned that it makes happy customers to help provide a better charging situation for them, rather than spew the "company line" and have them contract with AV for a $1000+ charger install. There is at least one situation I am aware of where a customer was quoted almost $6000 to have his AV unit installed. (They determined he needed a whole new service panel, meter, entrance, and feed cabling to meet code for the 40a AV breaker that only will pull 16a!)

I suspect Nissan corporate will never officially recommend people have us upgrade their EVSE's, but they are aware of it, and I suspect they are happy that we are removing an extra impediment for people to buy a LEAF.

Keep in mind it's not Nissan's fault. We have all these crazy code requirements and byzantine rules and regulations that vary from city to city to adhere to. In my opinion it's silly, but that's what we've got with our over litigious society.

-Phil

 

[davewill]

Keep in mind it's not Nissan's fault. We have all these crazy code requirements and byzantine rules and regulations that vary from city to city to adhere to. In my opinion it's silly, but that's what we've got with our over litigious society.

Well, some of it is Nissan's doing. They COULD support an L2 solution that would work on a 240v 20a circuit that met all the relevant rules, and it would be much cheaper to install for a lot of people. Fewer folks would need to upgrade their panel for that load, for example. Part of the reason they didn't is because they wanted to future proof the installations. Those of us with AVs and Blinks on 40a circuits are now ready to buy the LEAF 2 with more capacity and a beefier charger on board. A lofty idea, until you realize that many, many people simply won't be living where they are now in the future, and have no motivation to invest.

Well, I guess they had to leave something for third parties to do.

 

[Ingineer]

Keep in mind it's not Nissan's fault. We have all these crazy code requirements and byzantine rules and regulations that vary from city to city to adhere to. In my opinion it's silly, but that's what we've got with our over litigious society.

Well, some of it is Nissan's doing. They COULD support an L2 solution that would work on a 240v 20a circuit that met all the relevant rules, and it would be much cheaper to install for a lot of people. Fewer folks would need to upgrade their panel for that load, for example. Part of the reason they didn't is because they wanted to future proof the installations. Those of us with AVs and Blinks on 40a circuits are now ready to buy the LEAF 2 with more capacity and a beefier charger on board. A lofty idea, until you realize that many, many people simply won't be living where they are now in the future, and have no motivation to invest.

Well, I guess they had to leave something for third parties to do.

Nobody yet makes a 240v 16a only EVSE (other than the Panasonic with my Rev 2 upgrade). If someone did, this would solve a lot of problems!

Keep in mind Nissan doesn't make any EVSE's. The contracted with Panasonic to make the one that ships with the LEAF, and the contracted with AV to provide a home charging solution. While you might be able to say they may profiting on the Panasonic, they aren't on the AV. This means they have no interest in you getting an AV, except they want you to be able to charge at 240v/16a.

-Phil

 

[rclams]

First driving impressions are mixed. I find the "miles to go" display of energy remaining silly and inaccurate. Is there a KWH or percent SOC display lurking around somewhere?

Here's my revelation:

1) charge to your normal level (80% or 100%; we lease and charge to 100% normally)
2) reset your "miles per kWh" and trip odometer on your main display
3) drive your normal route at your normal speeds
4) ==> when you arrive back home, add the LEAF "remaining miles" to your trip odometer miles to get your "normal range"
5) also note the "miles per kWh" reading (mine averages 4.5) - since each of the 12 bars in the Battery Gauge represent 2 kWh of energy, this number multiplied by the remaining bars is a useful "manual calculation" of remaining range with careful driving if your recent driving has distorted your current "range remaining" readout.

For mixed 75% highway/25% streets driving (including some hills and some adverse wind), my secure range is 80 miles (and I could probably extend that to 90 miles with re-routing and "hyper-miling", if needed).

If I didn't need the highway and used ECO over my my "flat ground, steady speed/few stoplights, 35 mph speed limit" routes, I think a 100 mile range would be attainable.

Keep in mind that for my longer mileage days (max was 130 miles with some L2 charging at meal times (e.g., eating a takeout burger at a Nissan dealer) and L1 charging during a round of golf), I'm in the right lane at 56-58 mph, enjoying my iPod.

==> With the range of the LEAF Gen 1, driving faster only means earlier arrival times of a few minutes at best.

Guilty Pleasure Confession: sometimes when I'm just running errands locally, I'm rocking 65-70 mph on the highway and dusting SUVs and sport sedans when the light turns green. :lol: (FWIW, we generate about 10 kWh per day with our PV system.)

 

[mckemie]

Picked up my Leaf yesterday and asked at the dealer for another 110v charge thingy. He said as soon as they get one, they send it off to be converted (presumably to Phil). And that they had two in progress. I was highly surprised because it is Nissan that has foisted off this whole J1772 $2000 home charging station scam on us and I would expect them to be opposed to any cost effective alternatives to their recommendations. I certainly would have expected Nissan to have supplied a Phil-like device if they wanted to be cost effective.

Keep in mind there is a big difference from the Dealer and Nissan Corporate. Dealers have learned that it makes happy customers to help provide a better charging situation for them, rather than spew the "company line" and have them contract with AV for a $1000+ charger install. There is at least one situation I am aware of where a customer was quoted almost $6000 to have his AV unit installed. (They determined he needed a whole new service panel, meter, entrance, and feed cabling to meet code for the 40a AV breaker that only will pull 16a!)

I suspect Nissan corporate will never officially recommend people have us upgrade their EVSE's, but they are aware of it, and I suspect they are happy that we are removing an extra impediment for people to buy a LEAF.

Keep in mind it's not Nissan's fault. We have all these crazy code requirements and byzantine rules and regulations that vary from city to city to adhere to. In my opinion it's silly, but that's what we've got with our over litigious society.

-Phil

Just to clarify: Nissan COULD have offered what you are offering at little to no additional cost.

 

[planet4ever]

5) also note the "miles per kWh" reading (mine averages 4.5) - since each of the 12 bars in the Battery Gauge represent 2 kWh of energy, this number multiplied by the remaining bars is a useful "manual calculation" of remaining range with careful driving if your recent driving has distorted your current "range remaining" readout.

Not a bad rule to follow, even though the theory behind it is flawed. It may be that each of the 12 bars represented something only a little less than 2 kWh before the April firmware upgrade, but they are significantly less than that now. So you shouldn't assume that you can multiply the number of bars by 2 for your calculation. On the other hand, there is now a bigger buffer at the bottom after the last bar disappears, so you shouldn't panic if the rule says to multiply by zero. Even after the range estimate goes to 3 dashes (which will now happen sometime after you have no bars) I believe you can still count on at least 5 more miles before you run out.

Ray

 

[davewill]

Just to clarify: Nissan COULD have offered what you are offering at little to no additional cost.

Actually, that's something they probably couldn't have done. The way the adapters work on the MOD L1 are fine for enthusiasts, but they would have had to have designed something much more foolproof for retail distribution...and probably couldn't have made it foolproof enough to get UL certification. What they could have created would have been a 16a version of the AV. The hardware wouldn't have been much, if any, cheaper, but the installs would have been easier for a lot of folks. People could have retrofitted unused dryer outlets and that sort of thing instead of having to run new circuits, expand panels, etc...

 

[Stoaty]

Keep in mind it's not Nissan's fault. We have all these crazy code requirements and byzantine rules and regulations that vary from city to city to adhere to. In my opinion it's silly, but that's what we've got with our over litigious society. l

I saw on Wikipedia that the National Electrical Code specifies:

625-13. Electric Vehicle Supply Equipment. Electric vehicle
supply equipment rated at 125 volt, single phase, 15
or 20 amperes or part of a system identified and listed as
suitable for the purpose and meeting the requirements of
Sections 625-18. 625-19. and 625-29 shall be permitted to
be cord and plug connected. All other electric vehicle supply
equipment shall be permanently connected and fastened in
place. This equipment shall have no exposed live parts.

http://www.madkatz.com/ev/nec1999Article625.html

I don't know much about codes, but does that mean a manufacturer can't make a non-permanently connected 240 volt EVSE, or that we can't use one? If so, is this for safety reasons, or to cover their butts?

 

[planet4ever]

Off topic here but this has been debated at great length elsewhere. Did you see the "or"?

... rated at 125 volt, single phase, 15 or 20 amperes or part of a system identified and listed ...

Ray

 

[Stoaty]

Off topic here but this has been debated at great length elsewhere. Did you see the "or"?

... rated at 125 volt, single phase, 15 or 20 amperes or part of a system identified and listed ...

Ray

No, I missed the "or". Thanks for pointing it out. Where has it been debated? I don't recall seeing it. Link (please )?

 

[planet4ever]

Hmm, can't seem to find it, other than this and following posts, which is hardly "extensive":
http://www.mynissanleaf.com/viewtopic.php?f=9&t=717&start=3

Ray

 

[drmanny3]

Well, I picked up our car on 5/28 and ordered the EVSE mod plus upgrade on the amps. However, I was unable to send the unit in till this Monday. I sent by ground and they received it on Wed at around noon. They turned around and sent my unit back that evening, and I just received it this afternoon (Friday). Thank goodness as I was out of juice. I plugged it in to my new 240 volt hookup (The electrician put one in my garage last Saturday and charged me $120) and it works as promised. The car said it would take 5 hours of normal charging. It only took 4 hours to get a complete charge. So running at 16 amps is a lot better than at 12 amps. I could not be happier with my purchase and their service. It is what makes America so great. We have some very innovative folks here. Again these folks delivered as promised and I could not be happier.
Manny

 

[Volusiano]

Everyone,

Perhaps we should consider ourselves in getting a low cost insurance for your cars. We do know that accidents could just happen on streets and we could never tell when will it happen. And if this do happen, wouldn't it be better if you've got yourselves a car insurance ready for your use.

Not sure what this message has to do with fast low cost EVSE charging, other than as a spam. Even as a spam, what's the point of promoting buying insurance? Everybody in the US already are required to have insurance to operate their cars.

 

[garygid]

For the forum readers in India?

 

[marccbr]

I would like to buy this upgrade but is there an adapter to go from NEMA L6-20 to NEMA 10-30r plug? It is a 240V 40 Amp 3 prong dryer connection that I would like to plug the car into at night.

 

[garygid]

Yes, this adapter is one of those made (and being sold) by some of our members.

See the "Adapters for Ingineer's ..." thread.

http://www.evseupgrade.com

has a link to this thread in the FAQs at the bottom of the page.

 

[tzzhc4]

Everyone,

Perhaps we should consider ourselves in getting a low cost insurance for your cars. We do know that accidents could just happen on streets and we could never tell when will it happen. And if this do happen, wouldn't it be better if you've got yourselves a car insurance ready for your use.

This is spam to increase page rank for the links it is adding. Seems to have been a bunch of these lately (bakerstone1 posting about Valpack and tablecloths).

Can the moderators delete the account and posts?

 

[waidy]

Yeah!! I got my Rev 2 L1/L2 charger back. Thanks for EVSEupgrade's speedy service. Happy happy.. Now I have to wait until 6pm (low rate) to plug in to test it out!! Many many thanks to EVSEupgrade, I really appreciate your fast turn-around time given that you have pile of "upgrades" to do from being just come back from your vacation.

 

[arnolddeleon]

Also received my rev 2 upgrade. I sent it on Monday (7/11), it arrived there Tuesday and it was shipped out Friday (I'm assuming they had quite a backlog). It's rather unfortunate that UPS doesn't deliver on Saturdays so I had to wait until today (Monday) before it was delivered. I see that I received the same unit that I sent out (I took a photo my serial number).

I just tested it at 120V and 240V and it works great! I have an eMonitor system (http://www.powerhousedynamics.com/) so I can see how much power individual circuits were pulling and I confirmed that at 240V it pulled the same amount of power as the Blink charger (not that there was any doubt). At 120V the car was pulling about 1460 Watts.

It might be my imagination but the upgraded unit appears to boot/get "ready" much faster than the original unit.

FWIW I am able to fit the following adapters in the carrying case: 5-15P to L6-20R, 10-30 to L6-20R, 14-30/50/60 (neutral pin removed) to L6-20R and 6-50 to L6-20R. With a screwdriver I can convert the 10-30 to a 10-50. I was originally planning on adding an outlet tester like:

http://www.amazon.com/50542-Receptacle-Tester-Improper-Indicator/dp/B002LZTKIA/ref=sr_1_1?ie=UTF8&qid=1311048156&sr=8-1

I can find similar units locally for about $5 but I realized that was rather limited so my current plan is carry a low cost multimeter. My current candidate is the following for under $15

http://www.amazon.com/Equus-3320-Auto-Ranging-Digital-Multimeter/dp/B000EVYGZA/ref=sr_1_1?s=automotive&ie=UTF8&qid=1311048612&sr=1-1

I'm probably going to add an extension cord to carry in the car most likely a 15' L6-20P to L6-20R, about $42 shipped.

http://www.stayonline.com/detail.aspx?ID=7510

The shipping on an additional cable is significantly less so I might get another cable.

arnold

 

[garygid]

I got two of the 25' L6-20P-to-R extension cords
at StayOnLine for $39 each, plus shipping.