EVSE Installation, Info and Cost Comparison Thread

[TimeHorse]

Of course, since even some first reservations in the first 5 states may end up due to supply not be able to purchase the LEAF in December, never mind HI, TX, MD, DC, VA, NC, SC, GA, AL and FL, who were supposed to be "priority" having that credit disallowed if the vehicle is required first, never mind the forgotten 36. That would, IMHO, be apocryphal but it just goes to show how sometimes life just isn't fair.

Personally, I think if enough people write to their Congress people we may end up seeing the credit extended retroactively sometime in late 2011 given how cheesed the general populace will be when told:

Oh, here's this credit, but you can't use it because no car is available in your area, and when the car does become available, we're taking it away.

Come'on, America! Let's get cheesed!

 

[daniel]

I apologize in advance for not reading this entire 42-page thread before posting, but I have read the last half-dozen pages or so...

Aerovironment is a total bunny-flopping rip-off!!!

I have a dedicated 220 volt, 50 amp RV-style outlet in my garage on its own circuit breaker (conduit from the entry panel to the garage). This is for charging another electric car. I will never need to charge both cars at the same time, so I wanted to be able to use this same circuit to charge either the leaf or the other car. The man from AV who did the assessment suggested they could install a transfer switch, allowing me to switch between the ESVE and the RV-style plug. Both the EVSE and the new placement of the old receptacle would be within a couple of feet of where the conduit comes into the garage, so they'd only have to run wire for a maximum of 4 feet (two feet in each direction, with the transfer switch in the middle where the receptacle is now).

Aerovironment quoted me $4,702.13 for the installation! Since the basic installation of the EVSE to the switch would be the simplest possible (just two feet from the switch) and since the most basic installation was supposed to be $2,200, they want to charge me TWENTY-FIVE HUNDRED DOLLARS for a transfer switch including installation.

This is absolute robbery!!!

I phoned them and told them this was an outrage, and a very nice lady told me she thought maybe there was a "mistake" (You bet there was a mistake: My mistake in paying criminals for an assessment!) and they'd get back to me in a week or two with another estimate.

I will not deal with a company dishonest enough to even submit such an outrageous assessment. I'll just use the L1 charger (for my driving that's probably all I'll ever need) and wait until there's other EVSEs available.

FWIW, I phoned my local electrician, and he figured he could do the installation for around $1,000, including the transfew switch. Since his estimate does not include the cost of the EVSE itself, it would cost me around $1,700, which is THREE THOUSAND DOLLARS LESS than Aerovironment wanted to charge.

 

[daniel]

Someone way further up on this thread made the statement that the tax credit for the EVSE would NOT be available to people subject to AMT.

Does anyone have definitive information on this? Please no speculation. I'm interested in whether anyone actually knows what's up with this.

Thanks.

 

[evnow]

I will not deal with a company dishonest enough to even submit such an outrageous assessment. I'll just use the L1 charger (for my driving that's probably all I'll ever need) and wait until there's other EVSEs available.

Check the Leviton thread.

 

[garygid]

Welcome to the group of AV supporters!

You might even feel that you want to call Nissan and explain the two estimates to Nissan Customer Service, at 1-877-664-2738, since they chose to be "in bed" with AeroVironment.

Perhaps our taxes are spent basically the same way, but we rarely have a chance observe the "details".

However, in the meantime, you might want to check out the Leviton topic, and their plug-in EVSEs. You might not need ANY changes to your wiring!

Again, welcome here.

 

[daniel]

Check the Leviton thread.

I phoned Leviton. I gather their EVSEs are not yet available, But as I said, I can wait. L1 charging will do me fine for now. Maybe forever.

But someone told me there was a law (probably bribed into passage by GM) requiring all charging docks to be hard-wired in. Any information about that? A plug-in charger would be great! I'd save the thousand bucks for hard-wiring and transfer switch. But depending on the plug type I might have to change the plug or have two receptacles. (I'd do that happily!)

 

[evnow]

But someone told me there was a law (probably bribed into passage by GM) requiring all charging docks to be hard-wired in. Any information about that? A plug-in charger would be great! I'd save the thousand bucks for hard-wiring and transfer switch. But depending on the plug type I might have to change the plug or have two receptacles. (I'd do that happily!)

No - that was just mis-reading of the NEC by many. Leviton's is a plug-in EVSE.

Checkout the Leviton group buy thread.

 

[smkettner]

If whatever EVSE I buy does not have a cord I plan to add one and plug into the existing NEMA 14-50R

 

[EVDRIVER]

I spoke to AV last week about my bid and they played dumb about making a mistake and said they would revise it but they never did. They also said the lowest labor charge would only be $700 even if all the wiring is already completed. Glad I'm doing my own. I also read an AV bid for a commercial installation that was somewhat difficult and far more complex than a residence and it was lower than most if the bids here for some parts of the install. I can't see why anyone would use av and even if you buy the evse from them and call an electrician you save money and still get a manufactures warranty on parts, just no on site but who cares.

 

[garygid]

Now, you are "on board" (looking at options).

Neither the Leviton EVSE units nor the AV EVSE are available to purchase yet, but ... we wait.

Many of us are hoping the Leviton EVSEs will be good units, flexible to use (plug-in), and reasonably priced. Again, we are waiting.

The included L1 (120v) EVSE will give us about a 50% charge in 10 hours, so it will be "sufficient" for many of us, at least in the beginning. However, most of us do expect to have the 100% 8-hour charging (4-hour 50%) to use before (or shortly after) we actually get the LEAF.

I intend to get a "portable" L2 EVSE (with plug-in adapters) so that I can use it almost anywhere I can get access to a "hot" socket.

Later, I expect to use the "L3" (DC) Quick-Charging stations at trip way-points for "Range-Enhanced" trips.

 

[daniel]

... I can't see why anyone would use av ...

The number of potential Leaf buyers who are aware of and read this board is probably tiny compared to the total. The vast majority will be blissfully unaware of Leviton and other EVSE suppliers. This is the great scandal of Nissan endorsing Aerovironment: Many, many people will think they have no other option and will buy from AV out of ignorance.

Nissan needs to inform buyers, via their occasional emails, that there are other, cheaper options that are just as acceptable. By steering Leaf buyers to Aerovironment, Nissan is an accessory to the fraud that AV is perpetrating with its criminally inflated installation charges.

 

[EVDRIVER]

... I can't see why anyone would use av ...

The number of potential Leaf buyers who are aware of and read this board is probably tiny compared to the total. The vast majority will be blissfully unaware of Leviton and other EVSE suppliers. This is the great scandal of Nissan endorsing Aerovironment: Many, many people will think they have no other option and will buy from AV out of ignorance.

Nissan needs to inform buyers, via their occasional emails, that there are other, cheaper options that are just as acceptable. By steering Leaf buyers to Aerovironment, Nissan is an accessory to the fraud that AV is perpetrating with its criminally inflated installation charges.

Anyone can tip off ABG about this as it is a real and valid story, unfortunately ABG is a bunch of fluff and full of cut and paste stories from lazy writers. If they really had any skills or true concern about green technology they would write about this as it's an actual story with posting! Instead they post endless blogs about Range Rovers that get an extra 2 MPG, since they post almost everything about the Leaf perhaps they should be a bit more informed.

 

[evnow]

Anyone can tip off ABG about this as it is a real and valid story....

Just sent a tip.

 

[mitch672]

What could happen, could be very costly to Nissans reputation, as more and more Leaf consumers become aware of the AV fraud being commited, a class action lawsuit could be filed against AV and Nissan could also be named, it could be a public relations DISASTER for Nissan, even if the Leaf is wildly succesful.

They really should put out better information to the public about other alternatives, and provide a list of website links and numbers of independent electric contractors to check with.

 

[daniel]

Anyone can tip off ABG about this as it is a real and valid story...

Unfortunately, I'll bet that, just like participation here, a tiny percentage of potential Leaf buyers read Auto Blog Green. I don't even read it.

... a class action lawsuit could be filed against AV...

It would be thrown out of court: Although I happily use words like "fraud" and "criminal," they are probably breaking no law. They are making assessments and delivering quotes. The fact that those quotes equate to a thousand dollars an hour for labor (my uneducated guess) does not violate any law, as customers are free to decline. AV is under no legal obligation to disclose the fact that they are charging five times the going rate, or the fact that there will be alternatives. And Nissan can say they are not forcing anyone to deal with AV: they are merely "suggesting" AV and certifying that the AV charging dock will be compatible with the car.

Nissan and AV are trying to screw us over (though Nissan may be just ignorant of what AV planned to do) but in a free-market economy, that's what business does to consumers every day.

It would be great to get a national TV program to cover the Aerovironment rip-off, and provide the names of other companies who will sell charging docks to be installed by local electricians, as well as plug-in docks that require no installation. (I actually like the idea of a permanently-installed dock. But not for what I'd have to pay, given my situation.)

 

[garygid]

The Leviton EVSEs can be hard-wired, if desired.

 

[daniel]

The Leviton EVSEs can be hard-wired, if desired.

Yes, and if I didn't need to charge two EVs from the same circuit I'd do that. But the cost of installing a transfer switch, added to the basic cost for hard wiring, makes it too expensive for me. I'll use the plug-in version.

Version 1: Buy charging dock and transfer switch; have both hard-wired in: Total cost estimate from AV: $4,700; total cost estimate from local elecrician: $1,700.

Version 2: Buy plug-in charging dock; no installation required: Total cost: Whatever Leviton charges for the dock.

I'll likely go with version 2, though I'd probably put a bracket on the wall to hold the dock.

 

[garygid]

Reliance Generator Transfer Switch 100 amps 240 volts

From Northern, $140 ... is still overkill, but not too expensive.

 

[daniel]

Reliance Generator Transfer Switch 100 amps 240 volts

From Northern, $140 ... is still overkill, but not too expensive.

Thanks, Gary. I'll consider that. Assuming I don't just stick with L1.

 

[garygid]

There should be something like the manual, lockable, two-pole, shutoff (isolation) box-and-switch that is required between my PV and Service Panel, but double-throw (On-Off-On) instead of only On/Off.