Electrician says an L2 EVSE install is not possible! :(

[LeftieBiker]

NEMA 6-15 or 6-20 straight-blade receptacles which are often used for room air conditioners (15 or 20 amperes, depending upon existing wire size) would be appropriate if an existing 120-volt circuit is converted to 240 or 208 volts.

I wonder if you can get those preinstalled on a Zencar or other 12A-capable EVSE. If not it would be easiest to just hardwire it to the outlet box.

 

[Oilpan4]

For bigger stuff I use the nema 10-50 range plus 10-30 dryer plug and receptacle sets.
My little welder that requires at least a 100 amp connection has a 10-50 cord.

Locking receptacles are nice they just cost up to 2 to 3 times as much.

For ultimate convince I just added a nema 6-15 and 5-15 combination duplex receptacle to my garage.
It's got a normal 3 prong 120v receptacle on top and a 240v nema 6-15 on bottom.
I put these at my private charging locations.
I had been using my plasma cutters 10-30 receptacle and adaptor cord.

 

[BrockWI]

I started with a 6-20R, a single 240 vac 20 amp outlet and a plug in adjustable EVSE. It was nice going from 12 amps at 120 vac (1440 watts) to 16 amps at 240 vac (3840 watts). I then added a hard wired HCS-40 clipper creek. Luckily our main 200 amp panel is adjacent to the garage wall.

 

[Oilpan4]

My main is in the middle of the house which sucks.
If I were going to build my own house I would probably put the main panel in the garage on the wall between the garage and house.

 

[GlennD]

Prior to EV use I shared a 60A house. Noe it be would be disaster After my 100A FPE panel was replaced the city required at keast a 200A panel.

You might find that your city will require an upgrade . 60A is quite absolute. My once current panel was replaced with a 200A PANEL.

 

[Spacep0d]

NEMA 6-15 or 6-20 straight-blade receptacles which are often used for room air conditioners (15 or 20 amperes, depending upon existing wire size) would be appropriate if an existing 120-volt circuit is converted to 240 or 208 volts.

I wonder if you can get those preinstalled on a Zencar or other 12A-capable EVSE. If not it would be easiest to just hardwire it to the outlet box.

Hi Everyone!

Thanks for all of the comments and helpful advice. Much of this is still over my head but I read every comment, and already asked an electrician if he could upgrade a 120v outlet to 240v, even at the same amperage or going up to 15a. He said it wasn't possible. I may also get some more opinions on this. Going to 15a, 240v would be a big improvement over 120v@12a.

In other news, I've contacted the president of the HOA where I'm at, a very nice guy who I've dealt with in the past. I sent him every solution I could think of, from upgrading the main electrical closet for my building, for the whole complex, the DCC thing, etc. I mentioned how upgrading the infrastructure here would be a selling point for our townhomes, as EVs aren't going away (the incidence of ownership and desired ownership is only going up) and more people will want to charge their vehicles. We're completely stifled here with an absurdly low 60a per unit, and with 'full' panels.

Apparently, I was the first one to come forward with all of this and the request to upgrade power to the units...or at least my building or unit to start. That's hard to believe in 2019, but I see no reason for this guy to lie about that.

We'll see what happens. I was also sure to include the laws about California being a 'right-to-charge' state, along with the new laws increasing homeowners rights (as of 1-1-19).

I'll definitely let ya know what happens.

 

[LeftieBiker]

Thanks for all of the comments and helpful advice. Much of this is still over my head but I read every comment, and already asked an electrician if he could upgrade a 120v outlet to 240v, even at the same amperage or going up to 15a. He said it wasn't possible. I may also get some more opinions on this. Going to 15a, 240v would be a big improvement over 120v@12a.

Either you need to remove the "or going up to 15a" above, or you have an existing circuit that is only 10 amps...? Those are common enough in old houses, but I didn't think they were at all common in newer ones. What you want is to convert an existing 120 volt 15A (hopefully!) circuit to a 240 volt 15A. This is very do-able. I suspect that what is stopping the electrician is the fact that the conversion eliminates to Neutral wire, by converting it to a second Hot wire. This isn't allowed for normal circuits, but it IS allowed for an EVSE (charging station) circuit.

So all he has to do is either hardwire the EVSE to the existing outlet, making sure that any other existing outlets on the circuit are removed and the blank covers labeled "240 volt 15A - NO GROUND" or install a 240 volt 15A air conditioner outlet, and make sure that that one is labeled correctly as well. From your perspective the only difference would be whether or not you could unplug the EVSE to use as a portable, or not.

 

[SageBrush]

I suspect that what is stopping the electrician

Fair guess, but OP should just ask the electrician for the specific reason(s) and report them here.

 

[LeftieBiker]

Actually, thinking about it more, the A/C outlet is probably not possible, because that would likely require a Neutral. This still leaves the hardwired EVSE option. Even in the case of a 10 amp circuit, there are one or two EVSEs that will charge at 240 volts, 8 amps...

 

[Oilpan4]

I didn't think most level 2 chargers require a neutral.

Nothing says you can't turn a 120 to a 240v circuit unless you don't have the space for the tandem breaker or you would be turning a whole string of 120v receptacles into 240v.
Most of your outside receptacles should be on dedicated breakers.
I don't know when the outside dedicated circuit thing started, I think it was in the 1990s.
As long as you have the proper 240v receptacle I don't know if there is anything requiring room or outdoor receptacles be 120v but there probably is I just don't remember reading it. Or the electrical inspector could just not like that idea and fail it.

All receptacles are required to have a ground now, at least for of as long I have been alive.

 

[LeftieBiker]

I didn't think most level 2 chargers require a neutral.

Nothing says you can't turn a 120 to a 240v circuit unless you don't have the space for the tandem breaker or you would be turning a whole string of 120v receptacles into 240v.
Most of your outside receptacles should be on dedicated breakers.
I don't know when the outside dedicated circuit thing started, I think it was in the 1990s.
As long as you have the proper 240v receptacle I don't know if there is anything requiring room or outdoor receptacles be 120v but there probably is I just don't remember reading it. Or the electrical inspector could just not like that idea and fail it.

All receptacles are required to have a ground now, at least for of as long I have been alive.

I think that A/C outlets have and require a Neutral, so lacking a Neutral wire in the converted cable would be a deal-breaker, code-wise. Again, though, that just means the EVSE would have to be hardwired.

 

[Oilpan4]

It's perfectly legal to wire up stuff that only requires 2 hots and a ground with 2 current carriers and a ground.
There are all kinds of code approved receptacles that are only 2 hots and a ground.
All your 6 and L6 serries are 3 prong plugs and receptacles are for 240v 2 hots and a ground.
Hot water heaters, welders, air compressors, kilns, fixed electric space heaters, 240v lighting, most if not all 240v evse units all use 2 hots and a ground.
Things like clothes dryers, electric ranges, RV receptacles, are supposed to have 2 hots, current carrying neutral and ground.

 

[LeftieBiker]

In that case, I'd say the electrician in question just didn't want to do the job - at least not the inexpensive version.

 

[jjeff]

Haven't read the whole thread but what I'm guessing might be the issue is the circuit that feeds the outlet the OP would want to turn into a 240v outlet also feeds other 120v outlets. In this case all the other outlets would have to be turned into 240v(probably not something anybody would want) or the outlets would need to be removed and a blank cover be installed(again not something people would want).
If the house used conduit things would be pretty easy but with romex pulling new wire often times is very difficult(read expensive) if not nearly impossible

 

[Spacep0d]

Thanks for all of the comments and helpful advice. Much of this is still over my head but I read every comment, and already asked an electrician if he could upgrade a 120v outlet to 240v, even at the same amperage or going up to 15a. He said it wasn't possible. I may also get some more opinions on this. Going to 15a, 240v would be a big improvement over 120v@12a.

Either you need to remove the "or going up to 15a" above, or you have an existing circuit that is only 10 amps...? Those are common enough in old houses, but I didn't think they were at all common in newer ones. What you want is to convert an existing 120 volt 15A (hopefully!) circuit to a 240 volt 15A. This is very do-able. I suspect that what is stopping the electrician is the fact that the conversion eliminates to Neutral wire, by converting it to a second Hot wire. This isn't allowed for normal circuits, but it IS allowed for an EVSE (charging station) circuit.

So all he has to do is either hardwire the EVSE to the existing outlet, making sure that any other existing outlets on the circuit are removed and the blank covers labeled "240 volt 15A - NO GROUND" or install a 240 volt 15A air conditioner outlet, and make sure that that one is labeled correctly as well. From your perspective the only difference would be whether or not you could unplug the EVSE to use as a portable, or not.

I'll definitely pursue this and get specific reasons as to why the circuit cannot be upgraded if I meet resistance from the HOA. I may still pursue this concurrently to see what my options are. Thanks!