Electrician says an L2 EVSE install is not possible! :(

[Oilpan4]

I didn't realize all your spaces were full.
You can upgrade to a larger panel with more spaces. Or put in a sub panel.
It shouldn't be impossible, at all.

You have a 60 amp service because the nec rules on multiple occupancy electrical service are kind of weird. I never had to deal with them. They are over cautiously sized.

 

[SageBrush]

I gather you currently have 120V in your garage, right ?
If true, do you have two separate 120V circuits in the garage ? If so, you can pool them with a device to double your charging speed.

We may be able to offer choices if you take a photo of your open panel and list the breakers, along with each Amp rating and use.

 

[Oilpan4]

Do you have an electric range or electric clothes dryer?

When I moved in to my new place I had no easy accessible 240v . Unlike my last place currently being rented out, which had 2 outside 240v receptacles.
So, until I had a chance to run 240v power out to the garage which turned out to be quite a process as the main panel was about 110% full. I used my clothes dryers power and an extension cord to reach the car.

I actually modified the cloths dryer back in 2010, adding a receptacle to the side of it so I could plug my welder or plasma cutter in since it was almost impossible to access the dryer receptacle in that tiny laundry room, plus the receptacle was down at floor level.
And no, you can't charge and dry clothes at the same time.

Be advised none of this we have talked about, aside from hiring the electrician to add a charging circuit is any where remotely electrical code compliant.
If you had a garage with a clothes dryer and you could pull your car into the garage next to the dryer. Unplug the dryer, plug in up to a 24 amp evse (with out using an extension cord) that would be allowable. But it does not sound like that is an option for you.

 

[Spacep0d]

Do you have a gas range, or electric?

Gas. I hear the tick tick and poof, the lighting of a flame. Gas dryer too.

 

[Spacep0d]

I didn't realize all your spaces were full.
You can upgrade to a larger panel with more spaces. Or put in a sub panel.
It shouldn't be impossible, at all.

You have a 60 amp service because the nec rules on multiple occupancy electrical service are kind of weird. I never had to deal with them. They are over cautiously sized.

The Electrician mentioned that I could upgrade, but I'm still stuck with 60a incoming. Maybe I have to get more than 60a in? How hard is that to do if I upgrade the panel or have a sub-panel installed in the garage?

 

[Spacep0d]

I gather you currently have 120V in your garage, right ?
If true, do you have two separate 120V circuits in the garage ? If so, you can pool them with a device to double your charging speed.

We may be able to offer choices if you take a photo of your open panel and list the breakers, along with each Amp rating and use.

Yes, I have 120v in the garage. The Level 1 trickle charger works fine. There's one spare outlet. Interesting concept though. How would pairing them work? Is that done with a device?

 

[Spacep0d]

Do you have an electric range or electric clothes dryer?

When I moved in to my new place I had no easy accessible 240v . Unlike my last place currently being rented out, which had 2 outside 240v receptacles.
So, until I had a chance to run 240v power out to the garage which turned out to be quite a process as the main panel was about 110% full. I used my clothes dryers power and an extension cord to reach the car.

I actually modified the cloths dryer back in 2010, adding a receptacle to the side of it so I could plug my welder or plasma cutter in since it was almost impossible to access the dryer receptacle in that tiny laundry room, plus the receptacle was down at floor level.
And no, you can't charge and dry clothes at the same time.

Be advised none of this we have talked about, aside from hiring the electrician to add a charging circuit is any where remotely electrical code compliant.
If you had a garage with a clothes dryer and you could pull your car into the garage next to the dryer. Unplug the dryer, plug in up to a 24 amp evse (with out using an extension cord) that would be allowable. But it does not sound like that is an option for you.

Okay, as if there weren't enough complications, haha....the range and dryer are both gas. Trouble is, the dryer is upstairs. Yes. It's upstairs. This place seems tailor-made to make EV-charging difficult, though it was built in 1990.

I did think of that though....running a long extension cord from a dryer outlet to the garage with the appropriate charger, but the cord would have to go downstairs (out a window or through the house) and then through a patio (exposed outside) and in through a garage door (which would be a security risk if I have to leave it open a little).

If I had more headroom with amperes I could just upgrade the panel, expensive as it is. Weirdly, some electricians were ready to do the job (at a high cost) without mentioning any of these limitations but for having to run conduit through the ceiling and through the patio.

 

[SageBrush]

I gather you currently have 120V in your garage, right ?
If true, do you have two separate 120V circuits in the garage ? If so, you can pool them with a device to double your charging speed.

We may be able to offer choices if you take a photo of your open panel and list the breakers, along with each Amp rating and use.

Yes, I have 120v in the garage. The Level 1 trickle charger works fine. There's one spare outlet. Interesting concept though. How would pairing them work? Is that done with a device?

http://www.quick220.com/-A220-20L.html

NOTE:
** Note: The Quick 220® Power Supply uses two outlets from two different circuits that are out of phase and not controlled by ground fault interupters (GFI's). The Quick 220® Power Supply has built in circuitry to test for the out of phase circuits. A separate tester is supplied to check the outlet for a GFI. Most buildings have numerous outlets that meet these two requirements.

It should be easy enough to check for two separate circuits, but I am not sure what the out of phase requirement means. I'm under the impression that most residential electricity in the US is single phase, but perhaps they mean something different. Talk to them first if you are interested.

Addendum: This link from their website
http://www.quick220.com/page/cp-product-solutions-2.html
says that 1/2 of the outlets will be out of phase. Step #1 would be to verify that each outlet is a separate circuit.
If that is true then check for out-of-phase-ness. If you are the unlucky half perhaps the breakers can be rearranged.

Addendum #2
This is above my head
https://diy.stackexchange.com/questions/78480/is-this-true-about-circuit-breakers-being-out-of-phase-in-a-house/78487
but it does mention that most Apt complexes are a 3 phase 208V. If that is your case then setting up out of phase outlets would seem straightforward once you know that the legs are on separate circuits.

Do keep in the back of your mind that not all EVSE work with 208V.

 

[stjohnh]

NOTE:
** Note: The Quick 220® Power Supply uses two outlets from two different circuits that are out of phase and not controlled by ground fault interupters (GFI's). The Quick 220® Power Supply has built in circuitry to test for the out of phase circuits. A separate tester is supplied to check the outlet for a GFI. Most buildings have numerous outlets that meet these two requirements.

It should be easy enough to check for two separate circuits, but I am not sure what the out of phase requirement means. I'm under the impression that most residential electricity in the US is single phase, but perhaps they mean something different. Talk to them first if you are interested.

.

What this actually means is that one of the 120V outlets used by the Quick 220 has to be wired to a circuit breaker on the (A) side of the panel (across for older panels, diagonal for newer) and the other 120V outlet to a breaker on the (B) side.

I have one of these units and it works well, though I don't actually use it much. Likely that the outlets in the garage of the OP are on the same circuit. In usual use, the Quick 220 would be plugged into a garage outlet and an extension cord used to find an outlet connected to the other side of the breaker box. Doesn't have anything to do with 3 phase 208 volt wiring. This might actually be a viable solution in this case. No electrician needed.

You don't actually need to know anything about which outlet is on which breaker. Just plug the Quick 220 into one outlet, attach an extension cord to the other plug on the quick 220, and plug the other end of the extension cord into various outlets until the unit works.

 

[Oilpan4]

If they are saying it's impossible and everyone has gas appliances then your breaker box may only have 120v going to it and the service may be 120/208v 3 phase.
With a single leg of 3 phase going to each townhouses panel.
Now if there is 3 phase 120/208 running into the service drop where all the meters are then yes.

The nissan leaf will charge just fine on 208v power but some evse units don't like 208v.

 

[alozzy]

Removed

 

[Oilpan4]

You can't just swap 15 breakers for 20 amp breakers.
If there are 15 amp breakers then it's likely 14 gauge wire.

 

[SageBrush]

Note that you do need to have (2) 120V circuits that are out of phase to use this device, so make sure you meet that requirement before placing orders.

Right, and each outlet has to be on its own dedicated circuit. It is a nice solution if OP can use it.

 

[LeftieBiker]

Please fix that, Alozzy. It' dangerous misinformation.

 

[SageBrush]

Please fix that, Alozzy. It' dangerous misinformation.

I understood him to say that if the wiring supports 20 Amps then he can put in a breaker up to 20 Amps.

Can he use the old wiring to pull wiring that supports a higher amperage ? That might be the most elegant solution if OP has a dedicated circuit.

 

[LeftieBiker]

Yes, that is how existing cable is usually replaced, although it can't always be done with conduit.

Alozzy needs to make it more clear: if you have a 20 amp circuit in place, then there is no need to replace any 15 amp breakers - they wouldn't be there. It sounds like he's suggesting making a 20A circuit just by replacing the breakers with larger ones.

 

[Oilpan4]

If the place is wired to code then the romex wire would attached to studs with large wire staples that are hammered down.
If it's in conduit then anything more than about one 90 degree bend through an inaccessible pull box and it won't pull.
If it were up to code all the junction and pull boxes would be accessible, some people have a funny idea about what accessible means.

The original statement seems to suggest sticking a 20 amp breaker in place of a 15 amp is okay.

 

[SageBrush]

If the place is wired to code then the romex wire would attached to studs with large wire staples that are hammered down.

Is that something that can be pulled to replace smaller Ampacity wires with wires of higher ampacity ?

During a recent remodel I remember the electrician passing wires through holes he drilled into the studs. Perhaps you are talking about staples at termination points ?

 

[LeftieBiker]

I think that the issue here is rewiring old houses vs newer ones. Newer romex is stapled near all of the junctions at the very least, and can't usually be pulled through. Older rubber-cloth cable can usually be pulled, and many old romex installations weren't stapled either. When I rewired about 70% of my house in the Nineties I was able to pull a lot of cables. A newer house wired to code would be much more difficult. That's a major reason I suggested converting an existing circuit. A good general electrician could do that in about an hour.

 

[GerryAZ]

FORGET ABOUT USING A Quick220. If the place was built to Code, then the garage (and outdoor) receptacles are protected by GFCI (could be receptacle in bathroom or GFCI breaker in panelboard) which will trip immediately when attempt is made to use Quick220.