Electric Service Upgrade Warning Los Altos

[wescom]

I have had an electrician install a service upgrade to get a second meter for E9B. Looks nice; I get a new baseline and a low charging rate, but it did cost me a pretty penny.

NOW I learn that the Los Altos inspector will not give final approval until I install INTERCONNECTED smoke detectors in every bedroom, and combined CO/smoke detectors in all common areas!! Even though I have 2 smoke and 2 CO detectors already. Thank you, state of CA for this new (Jan 1) law, thank you, Los Altos, for treating this as an "addition"!!

Be warned.

 

[waitingforaleaf]

If you don't mind me asking, how much did the second meter installation end up costing for you? I haven't gotten a quote yet from an electrician and am still trying to decide if it's worth the cost of investment to install a second meter for E9b or if I should just switch to E9a when my leaf comes in. I do use A/C in the summer but being on the SF peninsula, it doesn't always get so hot that I'd need to run it all summer. Nonetheless, the energy usage in the summer does have me concerned for going well over baseline during those months. In any case, a roundabout quote would help.

 

[DeaneG]

Wow. In Cupertino last year, the inspector checked for smoke detectors in every bedroom + common area, but did not ask for them to be interconnected (most of them are except a few wireless units).

The cost to add a 2nd meter depends strongly on your house's particular situation - overhead or underground feed, surface or flush panel, stucco or siding, amp capacity of existing feed.

 

[leafkabob]

I have had an electrician install a service upgrade to get a second meter for E9B. Looks nice; I get a new baseline and a low charging rate, but it did cost me a pretty penny.

NOW I learn that the Los Altos inspector will not give final approval until I install INTERCONNECTED smoke detectors in every bedroom, and combined CO/smoke detectors in all common areas!! Even though I have 2 smoke and 2 CO detectors already. Thank you, state of CA for this new (Jan 1) law, thank you, Los Altos, for treating this as an "addition"!!

Be warned.

Wescom, did you check the code to see if simply ugrading your service meets the definition of "addition?" Ask the inspector to show it to you. There may be an exception lurking in the code. I'm not familiar with CA codes, but my experience in AZ is that the addition I'm currently adding to my house does not require me to upgrade the entire house to current code standards. I would strongly urge you to find the specific applicable portion of the code.

 

[Mx5racer]

I was starting to feel bad about not getting a permit.
Things like this make me feel better.

 

[Rat]

I live in Los Altos, too. I'm starting to have a very bad feeling about this. The electrician just upgraded my main panel in preparation for installing the Blink unit. I have a fixed price quoted me but nothing was said in it about the smoke or CO detectors. If he wants payment upon completing the install but the inspector won't sign off, then we are in for trouble. I just read the law and I think the inspector may be right. Here's the relevant part (the next-to-last paragraph of the law).

(b) If the California Building Standards Commission adopts or updates
building standards relating to carbon monoxide devices, the owner or owner’s
agent, who has installed a carbon monoxide device as required by Section
17926 or 17926.1, shall not be required to install a new device meeting the
requirements of those building standards within an individual dwelling unit
until the owner makes application for a permit for alterations, repairs, or
additions to that dwelling unit, the cost of which will exceed one thousand
dollars ($1,000).

And here is the proposed rulemaking by the CBSC (which I am guessing is now in effect, but I haven't verified that). The website shows it proposed as of last April and some of the public comments are dated in May. They are referred to as 45-day comments.

CBSC rules

It looks like a $1000+ install job is treated the same as a remodel and the CBSC can require whatever devices are required in new construction. This applies throughout California, not just Los Altos, obviously, but maybe not all cities are as strict about enforcing it.

 

[TEG]

By the way, Los Altos Hills is one of the few towns where the "public" Coulomb ChargePoint EVSEs charge to use. Most other places are free right now.

 

[garygid]

1. Is that a $1000 permit, or a $1000 repair?

2. Are the $5/hour CPs getting used at all?

 

[planet4ever]

My $100 at Home Depot for materials is sounding better all the time. [6" run to a new subpanel with breakers, 6" run to L6-20 outlet for EVSE upgrade, 6" run to 120v outlet for backup or whatever, self installation]

Ray

 

[Rat]

1. Is that a $1000 permit, or a $1000 repair?
2. Are the $5/hour CPs getting used at all?

It's a $1000 repair or "alteration". It's not Los Altos that has the Coulombs, it's Los Altos Hills. The difference is about $3 million per house. I'm pretty sure they are $5 a day, not an hour, but I haven't used it. I've seen it and they have a nice EV only parking space right there, which everyone respects (since there's plenty of parking in the LAH Town Hall lot).

EDIT: I just looked it up. According to the chargepoint.net website the Los Altos Hills town hall station charges $2 for all day. No hourly charge, so whether you use it for an hour or all day it's the same, although the website isn't always 100% reliable, I've found.

 

[TEG]

I just looked it up. According to the chargepoint.net website the Los Altos Hills town hall station charges $2 for all day. No hourly charge, so whether you use it for an hour or all day it's the same, although the website isn't always 100% reliable, I've found.

I visited one of those charge spots a while back, and am fairly sure that it used to be $5/hour. Perhaps they got no takers at that price and have since reduced the price substantially.

 

[jsnable]

I just looked it up. According to the chargepoint.net website the Los Altos Hills town hall station charges $2 for all day. No hourly charge, so whether you use it for an hour or all day it's the same, although the website isn't always 100% reliable, I've found.

I visited one of those charge spots a while back, and am fairly sure that it used to be $5/hour. Perhaps they got no takers at that price and have since reduced the price substantially.

I tried it out in July while I was getting a permit for expanding my PV array - was $5 an hour at that point in time...

 

[Spies]

EDIT: I just looked it up. According to the chargepoint.net website the Los Altos Hills town hall station charges $2 for all day. No hourly charge, so whether you use it for an hour or all day it's the same, although the website isn't always 100% reliable, I've found.

Sorry about staying off topic but the Los Altos Hills stations were certainly $5 an hour before and now they are $2 an hour. They were free when they first went in. $2 an hour is certainly better than $5 an hour but still. Perhaps the all day you saw had to do with the $2 an hour rate being in effect all day?

Name 						Start Time 	End Time 	Price ($)	/per 	Min ($) 	Max ($) 	/Maxtime (hours)
LOS ALTOS HILLS / CITY HALL			 00:00:00	 24:00:00	 2.00	 	/hour	 0.00		 -	 	24.00	
LOS ALTOS HILLS / PURRISIMA FIELD	 00:00:00	 24:00:00	 2.00	 	/hour	 0.00	 	-	 	24.00

 

[Rat]

Back on topic, Tuesday I am supposed to have the final install and inspection of the Blink. If the inspector says he won't sign off without the combined smoke & CO detector alarms then I'll let everyone know, since this law applies statewide. This could significantly impact the ability of the EV Project to get volunteers.

 

[Rat]

I received confirmation this morning from the CBSC that the rules in the above link are the final rules that went into effect on July 19. If you examine those rules there are some exceptions that might apply in the case of a panel upgrade. If the old panel and new panel are the same size and shape, for example, so that the new one can just be swapped in the same housing, I think the exception might apply for cases where no wall surfaces were broken. What if only exterior wall surfaces are broken? Also what about the fact that the EVP is a US Govt. operation. Can the state regulate how the USG does its business? It's not clear how this is going to be interpreted elsewhere, but I doubt any of us want to try to get answers by forcing the issue(s) in court. So the important thing to be sure of is making clear in your contract and in the quote who is paying for this upgrade if it is necessary.

 

[Deleted member 3147]

I have had an electrician install a service upgrade to get a second meter for E9B. Looks nice; I get a new baseline and a low charging rate, but it did cost me a pretty penny.

NOW I learn that the Los Altos inspector will not give final approval until I install INTERCONNECTED smoke detectors in every bedroom, and combined CO/smoke detectors in all common areas!! Even though I have 2 smoke and 2 CO detectors already. Thank you, state of CA for this new (Jan 1) law, thank you, Los Altos, for treating this as an "addition"!!

Be warned.

Interesting. We recently (this year) did a large kitchen remodel and we were required to install smoke detectors in each bedroom, per the Jan. 1 CA law. However, all that was required was cheap, battery operated detectors. This is in San Jose.

Have you verified that INTERCONNECTED detectors are actually required by CA law?

 

[Rat]

Have you verified that INTERCONNECTED detectors are actually required by CA law?

Yes. See the link. There are exceptions, though. See 420.4.1.3. It won't let me cut and paste or I'd put it here.


I just asked the electrician about this and he said that is the law and that is the homeowner's responsibility and it is not included in the quote. He said the only places enforcing it around here are Los Altos, Los Altos Hills, and Santa Cruz County. Apparently there is a lot of discretion at the local level.

 

[davewill]

I just asked the electrician about this and he said that is the law and that is the homeowner's responsibility and it is not included in the quote.

He's right that it's the homeowner's responsibility, but I would expect a professional electrician to know about regs like these and tell me about the requirement before performing the work. The city planning office should also have apprised him when he took out the permit. It should not be a surprise saved for when the inspector shows up.

 

[Deleted member 3147]

Ok, it looks like 420.4.1.2 allow the detectors to be battery powered while .3 requires interconnection. A quick Google search comes up with this: http://www.firstalertstore.com/stor...lking-battery-operated-smoke-and-co-alarm.htm. This seems a lot cheaper than wired.

 

[Rat]

The Blink was installed, but the inspector has not shown up yet. There is an exception for exterior work only (examples given are porch and roofing). My install did not involve removal of any interior wall surface which is cited in one part as an exception to the interconnection requirement. The Blink was mounted on the wall, without a need to cut in, and the main panel was on the outside of the house. The wire ran through the attic, but attic access seems to me no more "interior" than roofing is. When we reroofed a few years ago, they totally ripped off the old roof and were walking around in the attic removing debris, etc., which was much more intrusive than what the electrician did. We'll see what the inspector says.