Could Ecotality (ECTY) company be headed for financial

[Herm]

If all you want to do is reassure nervous people, just install a few inflatable chargers around town.

 

[gbarry42]

If all you want to do is reassure nervous people, just install a few inflatable chargers around town.

Thank you for saying that for me. It is just what I was thinking.

 

[thankyouOB]

my personal experience with corporate buying of EVSEs is that it is excruciating. We almost did not get any at all despite getting discounts of up to 5k per unit. We had several venders do a presentation. We picked Blink to go ahead with a full survey.
We took 11 months to do the go ahead on more than a dozen chargers at our company. They are not yet installed due to our company's desire to do it during the December vacation.
The decision-making process was stalled for months and months by the single division head over facilities who just did not believe that proliferation of EVs are the future.
There were issues of cost and stolid thinking and fear that it would look as if we "wasted money in tight times," as well as the usual battles over where to put them and whether they would be stealing spots from ICE drivers. This was made worse by a pending company decision to charge for all parking. In the end, we are putting them in far-off parking spots, getting them at less than 1k each, but we cannot mark the spots as EV only.

The Blink people were enthusiastic, cooperative and gave us a terrific price, as they are under great pressure to install hundreds by year's end. Regardless, we almost did not go ahead with it.

 

[evnow]

I think Ecotality was simply not the right company for this job. They have never had commercial/retail experience. They have been a defence contractor (a lot of unmanned drones you hear about are made by them). (correction : That is AV, not Ecotality).

Coulomb /Charge Point seems to be doing a much better job at installing L2s. Someone like Leviton would have been great for home installations.

While we are at this - I also think it was a mistake to install so many of the chargers at home. I'd have much preferred to have 500 (or even 250) extra L2 chargers in public than the 1,000 we now have in our homes (in Seattle).

 

[thankyouOB]

i much prefer the home charger free. As we have seen, it is difficult to get non-municipalities to install chargers, even with large subsidies. Non-EVers have a very hard time seeing it as the future and are just sitting back.
I mean in all of the giant Mall in and around Santa AnaCosta Mesa in OC CA, there are about 5 chargers, and this is one of the largest retail complexes in the country. (The recent install at Ikea may have boosted that some, but Ikea is about a half mile away from the main mall and stores.)

You may be right about the sales-ability of this group, but our experience was that they were ready, willing and able. It was our internal issues that stalled it and almost stopped it.
We dont even have them yet, 11 months later.

 

[planet4ever]

I think Ecotality was simply not the right company for this job. They have never had commercial/retail experience. They have been a defence contractor (a lot of unmanned drones you hear about are made by them).

Aren't you confusing Ecotality with AeroVironment?

Ray

 

[DaveinOlyWA]

Thank God!.. 9 L3 stations for $1 million, how many of you would take a single L3 station vs 20 L2 stations?

I might prefer the L3 station since I dont want to wait 6 hours for a full recharge in the middle of nowhere.

I'd rather have the 20 L2 stations. In the Ft.Woth area where I live I think we only have 2 or 3 public chargers (beisdes nissan dealers).

i can see your point and would agree since the L3 are not really convenient unless traveling from town to town, but in our case, we already have HUNDREDS of L2's around and that number is growing daily. in Summer, i am ok with driving to Seattle, plugging in a few hours and just bumming around. Seattle in the Summer is a great place to be outside just walking or riding the tram or whatever.

but in winter, i now have to charge for 4 hours instead of 2 to get home and that becomes inconvenient because walking in winter in Seattle SUCKS.

i am very ok with sitting in car doing a QC for 30 mins. (i just catch up on my MNL posts!!) we need a few QC's. before i did not see the point of QCs. i got one as insurance for resale value but figured i would not use them but a few times a year and i envisioned only using them to go to Portland from Olympia which like 120 miles so have to QC going, there and coming back

 

[DaveinOlyWA]

I think Ecotality was simply not the right company for this job. They have never had commercial/retail experience. They have been a defence contractor (a lot of unmanned drones you hear about are made by them).

Aren't you confusing Ecotality with AeroVironment?

Ray

no. Aero is only doing the 9 state sites which are all located outside the Seattle metro area both east, north and south Eco is doing the 50+ for the EV highway project and have yet to sell a single site.

Aero is now giving a firm date of all 9 up and running by Feb 15th with some that might be as early as mid Jan. Eco has no info on launch dates, possible sites...um like not a single shred of info at all

 

[tbleakne]

If I were running a retail business or other organization desiring to install public charging, I would not go with ECOtality or Coulomb (ChargePoint) and get locked into a contractual agreement that would involve me paying them anything, sharing revenue, or both. It seems to me that it would be simpler in the long run to install my own "chargers". I'd also forget about fancy, expensive, network-connected L2 charging docks that seem prone to failure. Instead, I'd install something simple, cheap, and dumb that just works (like my AV dock at home), and use old-fashioned parking meters if I want people to pay. Having to carry around a bunch of quarters wouldn't be the worst thing for EV drivers.

+1. I believe we should encourage the installation of simple Clipper Creek or similar brands of basic, free EVSE. I understand a Clipper Creek unit that can charge two cars costs $2.2K, far less than the $11K for two Chargepoint stations. It would take a lot of charging fees to recover the difference, and the owner gets gratitude from EV drivers charging for free. As I have posted elsewhere,the Clipper Creek at the Helms Bakery building in W Los Angeles seems basic, but built to last. The fancy networking is not worth the cost, at least for now.

 

[EVDRIVER]

If all you want to do is reassure nervous people, just install a few inflatable chargers around town.

Thank you for saying that for me. It is just what I was thinking.

Is that not what they do now?

 

[ENIAC]

I think Ecotality was simply not the right company for this job. They have never had commercial/retail experience. They have been a defence contractor (a lot of unmanned drones you hear about are made by them).

No, they're a company founded on chargers for forklifts called the Minit Charger.

 

[GaslessInSeattle]

I'd rather have the 20 L2 stations. In the Ft.Woth area where I live I think we only have 2 or 3 public chargers (beisdes nissan dealers). Sure, there are more in Dallas, but I never go over there much. Having more L2 stations, especially visible to the public would do a lot more to encourage people to adopt EVs than a single L3 station somewhere. Not only that, but pretty much all EV's and PHEV's can use the L2 station. As it is right now, about half of the Leafs (that are equipped with L3) can use the L3 stations.. That is a smaller portion of the over EV movement.

We have a fairly good # of L2s. They are getting installed all the time, anyway. What we need now are some QCs.

I think a few 30 minute chargers are more convincing to the public than a lot of 6 hour chargers.

I couldn't agree more, especially after finally getting a chance to use L3 twice now... I'm willing to drive out of my way to top up in 10-30 minutes to 80%... L2 takes so long that I rarely get much from using them, more L2 will help, but L3 is much closer to impressing the mainstream and being convenient. for folks who are used to filling up in a few minutes at a gas station, even 20-30 minutes is going to be a stretch.

 

[bradleygibson]

We have a fairly good # of L2s. They are getting installed all the time, anyway. What we need now are some QCs.

I think a few 30 minute chargers are more convincing to the public than a lot of 6 hour chargers.

I couldn't agree more, especially after finally getting a chance to use L3 twice now... I'm willing to drive out of my way to top up in 10-30 minutes to 80%... L2 takes so long that I rarely get much from using them, more L2 will help, but L3 is much closer to impressing the mainstream and being convenient. for folks who are used to filling up in a few minutes at a gas station, even 20-30 minutes is going to be a stretch.

+1

 

[oakwcj]

I think Ecotality was simply not the right company for this job. They have never had commercial/retail experience. They have been a defence contractor (a lot of unmanned drones you hear about are made by them).

No, they're a company founded on chargers for forklifts called the Minit Charger.

That's right. And it's AV that makes the drones. Perhaps drones could be equipped with QCs and swoop down to provide charges.

 

[camasleaf]

We have a fairly good # of L2s. They are getting installed all the time, anyway. What we need now are some QCs.

I think a few 30 minute chargers are more convincing to the public than a lot of 6 hour chargers.

I couldn't agree more, especially after finally getting a chance to use L3 twice now... I'm willing to drive out of my way to top up in 10-30 minutes to 80%... L2 takes so long that I rarely get much from using them, more L2 will help, but L3 is much closer to impressing the mainstream and being convenient. for folks who are used to filling up in a few minutes at a gas station, even 20-30 minutes is going to be a stretch.

+1

+2 I made a goal of only using the three L3 chargers in Portland area, mainly the Ecotality L3. Maybe Ecotality will get the message.

 

[Aeolus]

I fully anticipate bankruptcies among most, if not all of the companies trying to make a profit on EV charging, regardless of the subsidies that have been provided. The one exception might be in car-sharing applications where the overall costs are rolled into the billing for use of the vehicle.

There's way too much overhead in setting up the hardware, network access, and accounting systems to do the billing. Meanwhile some businesses, organizations and local governments will figure out that providing free charging has substantial benefits from a public relations and economic development perspective.

Meanwhile, every one of these for-profit businesses will be competing against the cost of overnight charging at home with low time of use rates, coupled with PV installations that make home charging even more cost-effective.

I really like the model in Great Britain where a non-profit foundation is paying the installation costs of chargers while the hosting businesses or organizations are providing the electricity as a promotion for their customers.

 

[JimSouCal]

If all you want to do is reassure nervous people, just install a few inflatable chargers around town.

Thank you for saying that for me. It is just what I was thinking.

Is that not what they do now?

You guys are more brutal than my thinking. By the way, I got my cards, but the (2) came too late for doing any holiday shopping at IKEA. Any new product launch is difficult, but the current momentum need some very solid turnaround for BLINK to avoid imploding in a blink. Goodwill and patronage is what they need, and that seems elusive..

 

[GaslessInSeattle]

Maybe they should just come out with the numbers and reveal what percent of installs fail and how many have multiple redo's. I admit it may be that there are fewer failures than it seems, as we pretty much only hear from the folks who have had exceptionally bad experiences. I have never had a problem with my blink, but i've heard about so many that I have been left with a lack of confidence in using them out in the world... Ecotality needs to address the perception by either demystifying it or letting us know what they are doing to fix the problems and how much more reliable the commercial charges, particularly the DC QC's are going to be. They need to address the PR aspect here, especially if they have fixed the issues. I think we can be forgiving, if these issues are actually going to be a thing of the past.

You guys are more brutal than my thinking. By the way, I got my cards, but the (2) came too late for doing any holiday shopping at IKEA. Any new product launch is difficult, but the current momentum need some very solid turnaround for BLINK to avoid imploding in a blink. Goodwill and patronage is what they need, and that seems elusive..

 

[evnow]

I think Ecotality was simply not the right company for this job. They have never had commercial/retail experience. They have been a defence contractor (a lot of unmanned drones you hear about are made by them).

Aren't you confusing Ecotality with AeroVironment?

Ray

You are right. I'm confusing Ecotality with AV.

http://finance.yahoo.com/q/pr?s=ECTY+Profile" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

For a 177 employee company, they do look too diversified with little public infrastructure experience.

 

[evnow]

i much prefer the home charger free. As we have seen, it is difficult to get non-municipalities to install chargers, even with large subsidies. Non-EVers have a very hard time seeing it as the future and are just sitting back.

True - that is the reason we need someone hard at work installing these chargers in public.

Coulomb has been able to install more & quickly compared to Ecotality.