Could Ecotality (ECTY) company be headed for financial

[mark13]

problems...The company that installs the Blink chargers in garages and public roadways..

I use to trade ECTY for close to a year and quit trading a few months ago after I realized the huge cost in production and installation of the chargers..

About six months ago they had to raise more money by issuing more shares @ $2.50 a share..Today those shares are worth $1.00 + a share..

They are going to need more money in 2012 both to pay administration cost and the $100 million grant that is suppose to help build the QC market..The problem is there is not enough E-cars on the road currently to even come close in helping ECTY cover the cost of the QC project..

I see both a huge issuing of new stock (20 million shares)in 2012 and a major partner coming into play..They need someone like GE or another large company with a lot of cash and time on their hands..

 

[TonyWilliams]

problems.......The problem is there is not enough E-cars on the road currently to even come close in helping ECTY cover the cost of the QC project..

Don't they still have single digit DC chargers installations in the entire world? Their L2 chargers are a nightmare, with continuous bugs and issues. My home unit has yet another problem. 30% of the chargers in Balboa park were not operational last week.

They still don't even charge money for their use. Can't even get cards to folks, although I ended up with three.

There are tons more issues than lack of e-cars. It's relatively easy to forecast how many EVs there might be, and know that it would be several years before EVs hit critical mass in the market, at best.

 

[Herm]

We can start doing a post-mortem before they go belly up.. who wants to go firtst?

me first: most EV owners will charge at the convenience of their homes, its the whole point of the thing, the success of commercial charging is very doubtful.

 

[DaveinOlyWA]

widespead public charging is a MUST for EVs to gain real market acceptance and before you flame me as an EV driver;

1) yes, i am fully aware that my driving habits would only be altered a very little bit if there were no charging stations other than Nissan Dealers and my home

2) Yes, i am fully aware that 60% of households could use an EV extensively with NO real compromises to their driving patterns

3)Yes we should encourage early EV adoption because that will help support the infancy of public charging station buildups. keep in mind; the fed tax credit of $7500 whether buy or lease only goes to the first 200,000. wont be there forever.

4) yes, EVs are much cheaper to run even in the highest electricity rate areas. (those areas should be enacting legislation right now for special off peak EV rates anyway) not to mention the inconvenience of getting gas in the first place

5) Yes, the general public is clueless to the above 4 points.

as far as Ecotality as a viable business? some will prosper, some will fail. can only see how they react to adversity of customer support and innovation.

i have 3 cards as well. first one ordered and received within a few days. never got to use it. (son absconded with it i think!) ordered 3 more in sept/oct 2011. received 2 in mid Nov. so ya the delivery system is suspect.

 

[kovalb]

I spoke with someone from ECOtality. They are having difficulty finding businesses willing to put a DC-QC station in. There are some infrastructure costs involved. Let them know if you know of anyone willing to. ECOtality is ready and willing.

 

[abasile]

If I were running a retail business or other organization desiring to install public charging, I would not go with ECOtality or Coulomb (ChargePoint) and get locked into a contractual agreement that would involve me paying them anything, sharing revenue, or both. It seems to me that it would be simpler in the long run to install my own "chargers". I'd also forget about fancy, expensive, network-connected L2 charging docks that seem prone to failure. Instead, I'd install something simple, cheap, and dumb that just works (like my AV dock at home), and use old-fashioned parking meters if I want people to pay. Having to carry around a bunch of quarters wouldn't be the worst thing for EV drivers.

 

[cwerdna]

4) yes, EVs are much cheaper to run even in the highest electricity rate areas. (those areas should be enacting legislation right now for special off peak EV rates anyway) not to mention the inconvenience of getting gas in the first place

The above is not necessarily true. Assuming $3.49/gal gas (that's the current price at a cheap gas station I go to regularly) and 45 mpg on my Prius (that's roughly what my lifetime average is), it costs me ~7.8 cents/mile for fuel only.

As I posted at http://www.mynissanleaf.com/viewtopic.php?p=155508#p155508" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;, PG&E's rates are horribly expensive compared to WA and their tiers are a joke. I'm on their E-1 schedule (non-TOU based) and if I assumed say 3.16 miles/kwh and 20 cents/kwh on average, it's ~6.3 cents/mile. If I change that to say 29.276 cents/kwh (price when I get up into tier 3), it ends up being 9.2 cents/mile. Even though 3.16 miles/kwh might seem low, that might be reasonable once accounting for charging losses, esp. at 120 volts.

Try plugging in your usage into http://www.pge.com/yourtiers/" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;, zip code of 95136 and heated w/electric and gas then be prepared for sticker shock vs. what you pay.

They do have TOU schedules but their estimator doesn't work for me yet. But, it'd likely cause my bill to skyrocket as I'm at home in the day (not working at the moment) and the daytime rates on TOU are horrendous (http://www.pge.com/nots/rates/tariffs/ResTOUCurrent.xls" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false. My electricity usage is way higher when I'm at home and awake than when I'm sleeping/not home, which I've confirmed myself via PG&E's smart meter usage pages...

Per http://www.pge.com/rateoptions/" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;, the choices are E-1, E-6 (TOU based), E-9A or E-9B (B requires installation of a 2nd meter)...

 

[saywatt]

I hope you're not a professional trader!

problems...The company that installs the Blink chargers in garages and public roadways..

I use to trade ECTY for close to a year and quit trading a few months ago after I realized the huge cost in production and installation of the chargers..

 

[DaveinOlyWA]

4) yes, EVs are much cheaper to run even in the highest electricity rate areas. (those areas should be enacting legislation right now for special off peak EV rates anyway) not to mention the inconvenience of getting gas in the first place

The above is not necessarily true.

yes, the great oxymoron!! its no wonder you guys are broke... but then again, so are we. but "generally" speaking, EVs are way cheaper to run. yes there are pockets of the country where its not.

But CA rates need to change and i am surprised it has not already but then again, CA is like the feds. everything gets talked about but nothing gets done.

they complain about the high cost of providing the very high demand but dont reward people who are willing to "share the load" with solar installs, etc.

EVs are EXACTLY what CA is pushing for and they should be REQUIRING favorable rates for charging especially for super off peak.

 

[TonyWilliams]

I spoke with someone from ECOtality. They are having difficulty finding businesses willing to put a DC-QC station in. There are some infrastructure costs involved. Let them know if you know of anyone willing to. ECOtality is ready and willing.

They are "ready and willing" at their terms. The terms are not agreeable to many hosts (obviously), and in San Diego, we have yet another huge issue with the public utility total costs.

There are a LOT of loose ends in this company's performance that are not linked to SDGE, or hosts. Their product is inferior. If Apple had produced products like that, we would not have ever gotten iPads.

 

[DaveinOlyWA]

I spoke with someone from ECOtality. They are having difficulty finding businesses willing to put a DC-QC station in. There are some infrastructure costs involved. Let them know if you know of anyone willing to. ECOtality is ready and willing.

They are "ready and willing" at their terms. The terms are not agreeable to many hosts (obviously), and in San Diego, we have yet another huge issue with the public utility total costs.

There are a LOT of loose ends in this company's performance that are not linked to SDGE, or hosts. Their product is inferior. If Apple had produced products like that, we would not have ever gotten iPads.

ya we were discussing this on FB Seattle page. they are putting in QC's by Feb 15th now (delayed from Nov 30) but each one has to be approved and inspected by someone flown up from CA. that is the 9 stations contracted by the State. the 50+ QC's for the EV Highway Project, there is not a word of a single one yet.

so is there no QC's in the highway project due to so-so terms, poor salesmanship or inability to market the product?

 

[TonyWilliams]

so is there no QC's in the highway project due to so-so terms, poor salesmanship or inability to market the product?

Doesn't have to be "or".

 

[greenleaf]

Looks like another 1:60 reverse stock split is in order...

 

[DaveL]

I spoke with someone from ECOtality. They are having difficulty finding businesses willing to put a DC-QC station in. There are some infrastructure costs involved. Let them know if you know of anyone willing to. ECOtality is ready and willing.

They are "ready and willing" at their terms. The terms are not agreeable to many hosts (obviously), and in San Diego, we have yet another huge issue with the public utility total costs.

There are a LOT of loose ends in this company's performance that are not linked to SDGE, or hosts. Their product is inferior. If Apple had produced products like that, we would not have ever gotten iPads.

ya we were discussing this on FB Seattle page. they are putting in QC's by Feb 15th now (delayed from Nov 30) but each one has to be approved and inspected by someone flown up from CA. that is the 9 stations contracted by the State. the 50+ QC's for the EV Highway Project, there is not a word of a single one yet.

so is there no QC's in the highway project due to so-so terms, poor salesmanship or inability to market the product?

I'm not a big ECOtality fan either, but you can't blame them for the delay of QC's for the Washington State EV Highway project as the state awarded that contract to AeroVironment.
http://www.wsdot.wa.gov/News/2011/07/13_ElectricHighways.htm

 

[Herm]

I'm not a big ECOtality fan either, but you can't blame them for the delay of QC's for the Washington State EV Highway project as the state awarded that contract to AeroVironment.

Thank God!.. 9 L3 stations for $1 million, how many of you would take a single L3 station vs 20 L2 stations?

I might prefer the L3 station since I dont want to wait 6 hours for a full recharge in the middle of nowhere.

 

[adric22]

Thank God!.. 9 L3 stations for $1 million, how many of you would take a single L3 station vs 20 L2 stations?

I might prefer the L3 station since I dont want to wait 6 hours for a full recharge in the middle of nowhere.

I'd rather have the 20 L2 stations. In the Ft.Woth area where I live I think we only have 2 or 3 public chargers (beisdes nissan dealers). Sure, there are more in Dallas, but I never go over there much. Having more L2 stations, especially visible to the public would do a lot more to encourage people to adopt EVs than a single L3 station somewhere. Not only that, but pretty much all EV's and PHEV's can use the L2 station. As it is right now, about half of the Leafs (that are equipped with L3) can use the L3 stations.. That is a smaller portion of the over EV movement.

 

[drmanny3]

4) yes, EVs are much cheaper to run even in the highest electricity rate areas. (those areas should be enacting legislation right now for special off peak EV rates anyway) not to mention the inconvenience of getting gas in the first place

The above is not necessarily true. Assuming $3.49/gal gas (that's the current price at a cheap gas station I go to regularly) and 45 mpg on my Prius (that's roughly what my lifetime average is), it costs me ~7.8 cents/mile for fuel only.

As I posted at http://www.mynissanleaf.com/viewtopic.php?p=155508#p155508" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;, PG&E's rates are horribly expensive compared to WA and their tiers are a joke. I'm on their E-1 schedule (non-TOU based) and if I assumed say 3.16 miles/kwh and 20 cents/kwh on average, it's ~6.3 cents/mile. If I change that to say 29.276 cents/kwh (price when I get up into tier 3), it ends up being 9.2 cents/mile. Even though 3.16 miles/kwh might seem low, that might be reasonable once accounting for charging losses, esp. at 120 volts.

Try plugging in your usage into http://www.pge.com/yourtiers/" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;, zip code of 95136 and heated w/electric and gas then be prepared for sticker shock vs. what you pay.

They do have TOU schedules but their estimator doesn't work for me yet. But, it'd likely cause my bill to skyrocket as I'm at home in the day (not working at the moment) and the daytime rates on TOU are horrendous (http://www.pge.com/nots/rates/tariffs/ResTOUCurrent.xls" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false. My electricity usage is way higher when I'm at home and awake than when I'm sleeping/not home, which I've confirmed myself via PG&E's smart meter usage pages...

Per http://www.pge.com/rateoptions/" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;, the choices are E-1, E-6 (TOU based), E-9A or E-9B (B requires installation of a 2nd meter)...

I am fortunate in having solar as well as TOU. I am semi retired, so most of the time we are at home during the day. We are careful not to use heavy electrical equipment during the 10 am to 6 pm highest rate. Our Super Off Peak is about $0.10 kwh. Thus far with the help of our solar system we should see a very low price for the use of the Leaf. Last year without the leaf and the regular 5 tier rate from SCE we ended up with a Bill that was about $312 for the year versus about $2500. This year with the leaf it looks like we will be at about $200 for the year. So we are getting our LEAF charged at night for free basically. I have a supercharged NSX that costs about $0.25 per mile for fuel. Our 2006 Prius costs us about $0.10 per mile (I drive fast) and the Leaf is working out to less than $0.01 per mile. I could not be happier

 

[DaveL]

Thank God!.. 9 L3 stations for $1 million, how many of you would take a single L3 station vs 20 L2 stations?
I might prefer the L3 station since I dont want to wait 6 hours for a full recharge in the middle of nowhere.

After getting my first L3 charge yesterday (using Nissan's charger at the Seattle Center), I'll definately take the L3 charge over 20+ L2 chargers. Especially since rumor has it that the WSDOT has decided to install the chargers at I5 rest areas. These rest areas are nice enough, but I really don't want to spend more than 30 minutes at them!

But really what I want for Christmas is Phil's extended range trailer with L3 charging!
http://www.mynissanleaf.com/viewtopic.php?f=37&t=7104

 

[adric22]

I might prefer the L3 station since I dont want to wait 6 hours for a full recharge in the middle of nowhere.

After getting my first L3 charge yesterday (using Nissan's charger at the Seattle Center), I'll definately take the L3 charge over 20+ L2 chargers. Especially since rumor has it that the WSDOT has decided to install the chargers at I5 rest areas. These rest areas are nice enough, but I really don't want to spend more than 30 minutes at them!
[/quote]

But it sounds like you are more interested using them for traveling. But if you are trying to convince the general public to buy an EV, their biggest concern is running out of power and not having anywhere to recharge. Having 20 L2 chargers around town will mean it would be much more likely that a charging station would be nearby when a person is in "dire need" Sure, and L3 charger is great if you car is equipped for it and if it isn't on the other side of town from you when you need it!

 

[evnow]

I'd rather have the 20 L2 stations. In the Ft.Woth area where I live I think we only have 2 or 3 public chargers (beisdes nissan dealers). Sure, there are more in Dallas, but I never go over there much. Having more L2 stations, especially visible to the public would do a lot more to encourage people to adopt EVs than a single L3 station somewhere. Not only that, but pretty much all EV's and PHEV's can use the L2 station. As it is right now, about half of the Leafs (that are equipped with L3) can use the L3 stations.. That is a smaller portion of the over EV movement.

We have a fairly good # of L2s. They are getting installed all the time, anyway. What we need now are some QCs.

I think a few 30 minute chargers are more convincing to the public than a lot of 6 hour chargers.