Considering adding a Leaf to our Tesla stable

[Stoaty]

I can understand how you feel, with you owning a 2011, but we know they have changed the battery chemistry in some unspecified way, and there are numerous real-world reports of even the 2013 having less degradation (measured as capacity loss) at this point than the first generation. What really remains to be seen is just how resistant the newer batteries are to long-term degradation both from age and from heat. It does seem safe to say, though, that a 2015 battery is a real improvement over a 2011-2012.

We will know there is a real improvement when the warranty matches what Nissan initially claimed for battery capacity loss. Nissan is cautiously optimistic, but not enough to put their money behind the Lizard battery warranty.

 

[asimba2]

We have picked up our new 2015 SV Leaf today!

Congratulations!

I find that rather amazing after you have read all of our negative comments about the LEAF for so many years!

I can't even begin to mentally prepare myself for purchasing a $80,000 depreciating asset. However one that costs $20,200 somehow does not feel as big of a risk. The LEAF has been such a fantastic car to drive--wife and I are both hooked.

 

[TimLee]

... I still find what Nissan is attempting, bringing a very reasonably priced family sedan to the market, magnificent. But is part of the trade off going to be shorter battery life?
...

Wow, your prediction from August 4, 2010 sure was accurate :shock: :!:

 

[LeftieBiker]

We will know there is a real improvement when the warranty matches what Nissan initially claimed for battery capacity loss. Nissan is cautiously optimistic, but not enough to put their money behind the Lizard battery warranty.

That's one definition, but not the most useful for most drivers, who want resistance to degradation more than a warranty improvement that most of them will never use.

 

[GRA]

We will know there is a real improvement when the warranty matches what Nissan initially claimed for battery capacity loss. Nissan is cautiously optimistic, but not enough to put their money behind the Lizard battery warranty.

That's one definition, but not the most useful for most drivers, who want resistance to degradation more than a warranty improvement that most of them will never use.

I suspect most owners want both, and many people here who were burned once won't trust anything that Nissan says without a warranty that leaves them no wiggle room. We already know they'll try and weasel out of any claims they made that aren't backed up by such a warranty, and FTM will try and retroactively apply a lousy class action settlement to a warranty that they had previously announced with no such caveat.

All I can say is, if you are willing to take Nissan at their word after all that, you're a lot more trusting soul than I am. As for me, when I can finally get a BEV/FCV that meets my needs, it won't be a Nissan. I see no reason to reward them with my business given their past treatment of their most enthusiastic customers.

 

[Zythryn]

... I still find what Nissan is attempting, bringing a very reasonably priced family sedan to the market, magnificent. But is part of the trade off going to be shorter battery life?
...

Wow, your prediction from August 4, 2010 sure was accurate :shock: :!:

Wow! That was an old post
More of a question than prediction. I still don't know if I would be comfortable with Nissan's battery packs if I lived in the South. However, up here in MN heat is not nearly as much an issue.
And, with a three year lease, even less so.

 

[leafkabob]

We will know there is a real improvement when the warranty matches what Nissan initially claimed for battery capacity loss. Nissan is cautiously optimistic, but not enough to put their money behind the Lizard battery warranty.

I wonder if Nissan wouldn't be ready to upgrade the warranty for the new Lizard batteries, but for those pesky hot weather areas like Arizona. Not having complete faith that the lizard will last for 10 years with 70% (or 80%?) capacity in Arizona may be what is preventing them from upgrading the warranty.

 

[mgs333]

With the Model S, I get more efficiency on highways than city streets.

Congrats on the Leaf!

I'm curious about the statement above, I remember reading that the Tesla also gets worse range on the highway, am I remembering it wrong?

 

[GRA]

With the Model S, I get more efficiency on highways than city streets.

Congrats on the Leaf!

I'm curious about the statement above, I remember reading that the Tesla also gets worse range on the highway, am I remembering it wrong?

With the amount of weight that the Model S has to accelerate up to speed, and its excellent CdA, it might well be the sole BEV to get better HWY range than CITY.

 

[mgs333]

With the Model S, I get more efficiency on highways than city streets.

Congrats on the Leaf!

I'm curious about the statement above, I remember reading that the Tesla also gets worse range on the highway, am I remembering it wrong?

With the amount of weight that the Model S has to accelerate up to speed, and its excellent CdA, it might well be the sole BEV to get better HWY range than CITY.

Per this chart, at a constant speed, the model S peaks at around 22mph then falls off from there. Of course, this doesn't take into account stop and go so it's hard to be conclusive based on this data point.

http://www.teslamotors.com/blog/model-s-efficiency-and-range" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

Per Tesla's page here: http://my.teslamotors.com/goelectric#range" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

If you go down and toggle between city/hwy, they show more range with city driving. So Tesla is saying with typical city driving, it's more efficient vs driving at a constant 65mph.

 

[Zythryn]

Per this chart, at a constant speed, the model S peaks at around 22mph then falls off from there. Of course, this doesn't take into account stop and go so it's hard to be conclusive based on this data point.

http://www.teslamotors.com/blog/model-s-efficiency-and-range" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

Per Tesla's page here: http://my.teslamotors.com/goelectric#range" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

If you go down and toggle between city/hwy, they show more range with city driving. So Tesla is saying with typical city driving, it's more efficient vs driving at a constant 65mph.

True that while traveling, lower speeds are better.
In real life though, we have found longer trips with fewer stops/starts gives you better efficiency.
Now, when I say highway, I mean 60-65mph (speed limits in my area).
If you get going over 70-80mph air drag will kill efficiency.

This is compounded in winter with the added need to heat up the battery pack. If taking lots of short trips with time for the battery to cool off in between your range suffers by as much as 50% of EPA.
Average for winters has been a 30% loss of range. I'm looking forward to how the Leaf handles it.

 

[TonyWilliams]

This is compounded in winter with the added need to heat up the battery pack. If taking lots of short trips with time for the battery to cool off in between your range suffers by as much as 50% of EPA.
Average for winters has been a 30% loss of range. I'm looking forward to how the Leaf handles it.

Without any kind of heating or cooling (except for the 300w heater for -20C battery temperature), the LEAF battery will feel the FULL brunt of cold on range.

I strongly recommend applying those orange silicone heating pads used on livestock tanks and oil pans and place several of these DIRECTLY on the metal bottom of the battery case. Place some type of thin insulation over the pad(s) and battery case (you will have to remove the plastic bottom cover to do this).

Don't let the heating pads get over 100F (test them).

That temperature control is in the wrong spot, but otherwise this one looks awesome (you may need several):

http://www.zoro.com/g/Sample%20Vials/00141165/None" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

For metal surfaces, by BriskHeat:

SRL series: 2.5 watts / in²

Moisture, chemical, and radiation resistant
Heating element is laminated between two layers of 20 mil fiberglass reinforced silicone rubber
Exposure temperature range: -60F to 450F (-51C to 232C)
Patented grounded heating element
Dielectric strength over 2000 volts
Silicone rubber power leads: 48" (1219mm) standard length
120, 208, 240, 277, 480, or 600VAC
Bare wire connection
Temperature controller required


Bond the pads on with this kind of glue if they don't have self adhesive:

http://www.coleparmer.com/Product/Silicone_rubber_bonding_cement_3_oz_tube_85_to_450F/UX-03125-80" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;