Concerned about potential health risks with your Leaf?

[Nubo]

Or you can do what I did. Plant two seeds in two pots. Water one with water thats been microwaved and the other with tap. Guess which one sprouts and which one doesn't.

Maybe it depends on whether the tap water was also heated to drive out all the dissolved gasses?
Did you leave your tap water cold, or heat it to the same level as the microwaved water?
Did you let them both cool to the same temp before applying to the plants?
Did you use the same container for heating or transporting the water? (hopefully glass)
Was it double-blind, or is it possible that your own experimental bias could have introduced differences?

Equally important, how large was the sample size? If the population sample was 2, no conclusions can be drawn. In any bag of seeds there can be many that simply will not germinate. I've planted many a seed that didn't sprout, even in fertile soil with God's own rain.

 

[defiancecp]

Or you can do what I did. Plant two seeds in two pots. Water one with water thats been microwaved and the other with tap. Guess which one sprouts and which one doesn't.

Maybe it depends on whether the tap water was also heated to drive out all the dissolved gasses?
Did you leave your tap water cold, or heat it to the same level as the microwaved water?
Did you let them both cool to the same temp before applying to the plants?
Did you use the same container for heating or transporting the water? (hopefully glass)
Was it double-blind, or is it possible that your own experimental bias could have introduced differences?

Equally important, how large was the sample size? If the population sample was 2, no conclusions can be drawn. In any bag of seeds there can be many that simply will not germinate. I've planted many a seed that didn't sprout, even in fertile soil with God's own rain.

C'mon guys, don't ignore the warning signs, the internet's trying to save you some time here

 

[Nekota]

Maybe this will help lower your anxiety -- "tell the truth about the health benefits of low level radiation"

http://www.21stcenturysciencetech.com/articles/nuclear.html" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

This is for ionizing radiation while the above thread responses have been about non ionizing radiation and magnetic fields. For the non-ionizing radiation the risk is much lower since the cancer causing events are the creation of free radicals. Microwaves can generate heat in tissue and so can diathermy which is used to heat muscle tissue and increase blood flow to assist healing. When I search for cancer and diathermy there are only treatment responses.

There are concerns for people with pace makers around magnetic fields. Some pacemakers (see http://www.medtronic.com/rhythms/downloads/3215ENp7_magnets_online.pdf" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false can be programmed by activating a magnetic switch and then sending an programming 'RF' signal to read the pacemaker history or diagnostics. This magnetic switch is the primary reason we (magnet design engineers) have to place warning signs around large magnetic field devices and reduce the magnetic flux to less than 80 Gauss (160x earth field) to reduce harming those with pacemakers. Just for reference my iPhone 3GS cell phone speaker magnet has about 100 Gauss coming from the surface. And there are cautions about the interaction of magnetic necklaces with pacemakers when these necklaces use the high power NdFeB magnets.

My concern would directed to the health risks from worrying about these essentially unknown and difficult to measure risks. The mental stress and anguish have side effects of their own which could be reduced by encouraging or including comparison or relative risk assessments rather than the "zero risk" one expects in a perfect world. See http://www.physics.isu.edu/radinf/risk.htm" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false; for a comparison of measurable risk levels - sorry I cannot find any 'rational risk' discussion of non-ionization radiation.

Relax - Peace out - Practice Yoga - it's much better than worry.

 

[abasile]

All I know is that Nissan did publish instructions that those with pacemakers should not occupy the LEAF while it is charging.

Indeed, I found the following at page CH-2 in the 2011 owners manual:

If you have an implantable cardiac pacemaker or an implantable cardiovascular defibrillator, while the Li-ion battery is charging:
— Do not stay inside the vehicle.
— Do not go inside the vehicle, for example to remove or place an item in the passenger compartment.
— Do not open the rear hatch, for example to remove or place an item in the cargo area.
Charging may affect the operation of electric medical devices and result in serious personal injury or death.

Now, my neighbor raised an interesting question. Substantial charging takes place during regenerative braking, especially in hilly areas like ours. But Nissan never cautions those with medical devices against riding in the vehicle while it is being driven. Am I correct in assuming that the above caution is related to the onboard charger only, and thus does not apply to regenerative braking?

I must say that I am not truly concerned about this, especially since there are much more significant hazards associated with driving. But it would be nice to have a better response for my neighbor.

 

[klapauzius]

Maybe they are worried about RF noise coming from the onboard charger?
Since the motor is AC, there are non-DC currents during driving and regen,
also, but maybe they produce less noise?
Maybe the connect/disconnect event involved in charging could cause a medical device to malfunction?

Statistically, someone with a pacemaker could have a heart attack while driving with no causal relationship to the car at all, and still Nissan would get sued....So I wonder why they dont caution against driving at all with a pacemaker?

 

[dgpcolorado]

All I know is that Nissan did publish instructions that those with pacemakers should not occupy the LEAF while it is charging.

Indeed, I found the following at page CH-2 in the 2011 owners manual:

If you have an implantable cardiac pacemaker or an implantable cardiovascular defibrillator, while the Li-ion battery is charging:
— Do not stay inside the vehicle.
— Do not go inside the vehicle, for example to remove or place an item in the passenger compartment.
— Do not open the rear hatch, for example to remove or place an item in the cargo area.
Charging may affect the operation of electric medical devices and result in serious personal injury or death.

Now, my neighbor raised an interesting question. Substantial charging takes place during regenerative braking, especially in hilly areas like ours. But Nissan never cautions those with medical devices against riding in the vehicle while it is being driven. Am I correct in assuming that the above caution is related to the onboard charger only, and thus does not apply to regenerative braking?

I must say that I am not truly concerned about this, especially since there are much more significant hazards associated with driving. But it would be nice to have a better response for my neighbor.

I think Nissan is just trying to be careful, although it is likely that the charger magnetic field is located in a different place than when using the motor for regen; the motor is up front and shielded by the car body. Isn't the charger in the back under the trunk hump?

FWIW, my mother, who has a pacemaker, rode in my car for over an hour with no issues and the drive included regen braking.

 

[abasile]

It also occurs to me that, in terms of EMF exposure, I don't see how there could be any appreciable difference between regenerative braking versus powering the motor.

As the only EMF caution from Nissan is with respect to charging, it does seem reasonable to conclude that the onboard charger is not shielded nearly as well as the motor and battery pack. Nissan probably judged that it wouldn't be worth the extra expense of shielding the charger, since people don't tend to hang out in their cars for hours while charging.

 

[Nubo]

Interesting question regarding regen.

My understanding is that Level 1 charging is DC-DC charging. Right? "DC Quick Charge"?. Also I think I've read that the current LEAF cannot readily support 6kW charging.

The medical warnings would be due to alternating magnetic fields that could induce current in an implanted device or electrode. That the warnings are for charging mode only suggests that it is the AC-DC conversion that is the concern.

I can only conclude that the built-in AC-DC conversion couldn't handle anything like the 40kW of power that Regen creates, and that Regen must be delivering DC. Then again, my understanding is that the motor is AC. So all this doesn't quite fit.

 

[QueenBee]

I can only conclude that the built-in AC-DC conversion couldn't handle anything like the 40kW of power that Regen creates, and that Regen must be delivering DC. Then again, my understanding is that the motor is AC. So all this doesn't quite fit.

The motor is AC and the batteries are DC. So there is an inverter that converts the batteries DC to AC for the motor. This inverter does the same thing but in the opposite direction when using regen.

With Level 1 or Level 2 charging there is an onboard charger that converts 120/240 volt AC to ~400 volt DC to charge the batteries.

With Level 3/DCQC the AC is converted with in the external charger and connected directly to the batteries at the ~400 volt DC avoiding the onboard charger.

I assume that for whatever reasons the harmful to pacemaker effects of the LEAF are coming from the onboard charger and that for whatever reasons the inverter, AC motor, etc. do not produce these same effects or to the same degree.

 

[TLeaf]

Stopped by my brother's office and took him for a spin while we waved around his "magic wand" electromagnetic field detector (similar to http://www.narda-sts.de/products/high-frequency/broadband-meters/nim-xx.html but with a different sensor). Though admittedly of a finite bandwidth (300kHz - 3GHz), a pretty thorough scanning of the car yielded a lower result than what the detector experienced during calibration inside of its shielded case back in the office. In other words, the electromagnetic field generated by the car while parked and in motion is lower than the typical assortment of radio/TV/cell phone/satellite/WiFi signals that we are routinely bombarded with on a daily basis.

Sorry for not testing the car while charging, but I think the amount of time the typical user would spend sitting in their car while it's actively charging is pretty minimal (though there is that one lady I saw sitting in her car up in Everett)..

 

[DeaneG]

...Relax - Peace out - Practice Yoga - it's much better than worry.

Maybe not. Lately the dangers of yoga have been coming to light:

http://www.nytimes.com/2012/01/08/magazine/how-yoga-can-wreck-your-body.html?emc=eta1" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

I am personally more concerned about the proven carcinogenic content of gasoline (benzine etc), and of course the subtle dangers of yoga, than I am of my car, wifi, cell phone, or smartmeter.

 

[evnow]

Maybe not. Lately the dangers of yoga have been coming to light:

http://www.nytimes.com/2012/01/08/magazine/how-yoga-can-wreck-your-body.html?emc=eta1" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

Yes - just like people who push too far and run out of charge :lol:

Any exercise routine should be done carefully. Not just yoga.