Charging at Condos & Apartments

[garygid]

This difficult problem is coming up more often, so this is the place to discuss some of the options. At least 3 of our members are dealing with this right now.

Here are some subjects to get us started:

1. Is the Nissan $17k QC ("L3") "charger" available.
2. Assigned overnight parking, near apartment, or near electricity?
3. L1 charging from simple outdoor 120v socket in locked meter box.
4. Need for a Personal, reserved EVSE or charging spot.
5. Personal L2 EVSE with RFID to limit access.
6. Watt-Meter in EVSE to "informally" pay owners for electricity.
7. Difficulties of getting seperate PU meters for each charge-station.
8. Moving your assigned parking to "the EV-area".
9. Extension cords and Safety.
10. Designing an expandable EV-charging assigned-parking area.
11. Charging in assigned garages, with common electricity.

And many more issues.

 

[garygid]

Plan EV-Parking, with future expansion:

1. Select the parking area "nearest" convenient POWER (think multiple EVs charging at once).
2. Each spot will need 240v 40-amp service, so 10 spots would need 400 or 500 amp service.
3. Easiest & least expensive to feed from a common panel and PU meter, billed to the association.
4. Each user could "buy into" the "Charging Club" to cover a share of the project cost, perhaps $3k or $4k each.
5. Each user could pay a monthly "parking" fee to cover electricty, admin-expenses, association "reward", and upkeep.
6. Initially, each spot would have conduit and wires run, just to a "minimal", "waterproof" lock-box.
7. The "minimal" lock box would have an ON/OFF switch or breaker, and at least a 120v duplex socket, and a 240v socket, perhaps RV type, and a U-shaped cutout on the bottom/door for a single 40-amp cord to exit.
8. Space for an In-Door watt-meter might be considered for future expansion.

With this EV-Area:
1. L1 (20v, plug-in) charging could be accomodated
2. Plug-In L2 EVSEs could also be used when available and if needed.
3. Install costs are minimalized.
4. The area can have most spaces "stubbed off" to save initial costs, but still allow for expansion.
5. All installed hardware is standard, off-the-shelf, with no expensive "EV" stuff required.

Optional:
1. Provide for adding one "pay-per-use" QC station.
2. Consider a couple of "charge-point" (pay per use, with HOA as owner) EV charging spots for visitors ... but assigned spaces are needed for tenants.

Cheers, Gary

 

[garygid]

Advantage to the 120v outlet at your EV-spot:

1. Vacuum your car, power-wash, power-polish, or otherwise "detail" your car.

How much would the initial install cost, assuming 10 future EV spots?

1. Run 400 (or 500) amp PU service to a meter and main breaker panel.
2. Space for 10 dual 40 (or 50) amp breakers (240v) and 10 120v 20-amp breakers. Install at least one of each.
3. Run pipe/conduit to the closest space, with provision for the wiring for the additional spaces, and provide for exdending the conduit/pipe to the other spaces.
4. It might be cost-effective to trench/pipe/conduit/wire all 10 spaces at one time.
5. Install at least one "Lock-Box", and "stub-off" the remainder.
6. HOA starts making money!

Compare that cost with having "Charge-Point" install L2 EVSE "pay-as-you-go" stations.

Note: Personalized access cards could be issued for each station, allowing the HOA to "assign" each spot to a tenant.

 

[Kataphn]

I have posted on our exploration of charging at our condo in another thread. We have a house which will have an EV project L2 Blink. At the condo, we have 2 assigned parking places that are actually deeded so not movable. Luckily, we face a wall and are close to the room where all the electric meters are. I have had 2 big juntas at the condo with representatives from the LA city Dept. of Water and Power and the Dept. of Building and Safety just to explore if and how an EVSE could be installed on the wall at our spaces or at least a 110 outlet. The building is only 4 years old. On the load side, the builder built the condos right to the bone on what was allocated amp wise for each unit so there does not appear to be capacity on the load side. On the line side, with the electricity coming into the building, it is not clear whether there is sufficient extra capacity to allow for a few of us to have separate meters and have either 110 outlets or 240 for the EVSE. There is room on the walls of the room where the electric meters are for more meters. The HOA is open to allowing this if we have the electric capacity.
We do have guest parking but it is not clear whether the HOA would be willing to give up a space to create an EV parking spot and then who would pay for the EVSE. Keeping non EVs out of the spot would probably be impossible given that guest parking is at a premium. I already explored chargepoint, etc. with several companies but we would not produce enough volume for them and our garage is closed 4 hours a night (not open 24/7) which is a non starter for them.
All this being said, I have not given up exploring getting some kind of outlet to our own parking spots. Once Leviton or some other companies come out with EVSEs, then I will have one of those representatives back out to the condo to do an assessment. I have access to the original building plans for the electrical system. There are 165 units in the complex.

 

[smkettner]

I will add EVSE equipment as requested. All spaces are assigned and it would probably be on the house circuit. I would need a commercial unit to charge a nominal fee.
Sorry no vacancy right now

 

[garygid]

Kat,

Possibly try for L1 charging like this:

Do not try to add a circuit.

Perhaps one could "add" the hard-wired equivalent of an extension cord from an existing 120v "wall-socket" circuit in the house, by "relocating" (blocking off, if necessary) an existing indoor socket ... to outdoors, leaving the same number of sockets on the existing circuit?

An argument can be made that the occasional L1 12-amp load is no more than an indoor heater, and its use at night will be after other much heavier loads (your cooking, etc., and in the whole complex) are off, so the maximum loading will not change.

Probably put the outdoor 120v socket in a locked box outside for security and safety.

And, maybe leave enough room in the box for the "EVSE" box on Nissan's L1 EVSE and a non-abrasive slot for the cord to exit the box?

 

[garygid]

sm...,

Please pardon me, I do not understand.
Are you the complex owner?

If the added EVSE is for one assigned space, and powered from that tenant's living unit,
why is a "commercial" (billing-capable) unit required?

Oh, maybe you are paying for the install and need to charge a monthly fee to get that invstment back?

If so, still no need for a "billing" EVSE, right?

 

[smkettner]

Yes I am the owner. The tenant panels are maxed out and would require much more to pull individual wire. There could also be reasons to swap tenant spaces and that would require rewiring. The spaces are not legally defined spaces like a condo, they are at my discretion. Then if there was no control, tenants would certainly borrow each others' electric from adjacent spaces. Most of the garages are filled with junk so the stations would be located outside. With little supervision I would prefer it was not just an open hot spot for the public to drop in and charge. And yes I would expect a small return for spending a big bucket of money on this. After all the laundry is not free either. No requests yet and I doubt there would be for a couple years. It is not a big complex.

There is also some on street parking but I think that would be best left to the city to maintain.

Anyway that is my perspective as an owner.

 

[garygid]

When the planning might get serious, or you have any thoughts or suggestions, we are happy to hear from you, and to help if we can.

 

[Kataphn]

Kat,

Possibly try for L1 charging like this:

Do not try to add a circuit.

Perhaps one could "add" the hard-wired equivalent of an extension cord from an existing 120v "wall-socket" circuit in the house, by "relocating" (blocking off, if necessary) an existing indoor socket ... to outdoors, leaving the same number of sockets on the existing circuit?

An argument can be made that the occasional L1 12-amp load is no more than an indoor heater, and its use at night will be after other much heavier loads (your cooking, etc., and in the whole complex) are off, so the maximum loading will not change.

Probably put the outdoor 120v socket in a locked box outside for security and safety.

And, maybe leave enough room in the box for the "EVSE" box on Nissan's L1 EVSE and a non-abrasive slot for the cord to exit the box?

Trouble is....it is an underground parking garage. Our actual unit is on the 4th floor way far away and up 4 stories in an elevator from the actual parking spaces. No way to get an extension cord to where the car would be from the unit. HOA won't go for tapping into a close by 120 outlet somewhere in the parking structure (I am sure there are some around) since they would want electric use to be billable to us and other owners would yell foul I am sure. I think the most likely answer will be to somehow run a line from our meter in the meter room to our parking space, provided there is enough capacity on the load side (not likely)...or if not, to see about having a separate meter in the meter room that this circuit would connect to...which would be a whole lot of trouble for one 120 outlet but better than no charging capability at all. Some day, in our old age, we may live in this condo full time so eventually, I have to figure out something. :roll:

 

[LEAFer]

How about agreeing with the association that the LEAF uses X kWh/mile. At the end of each month/quarter/year/whatever you report the mileage (which they can verify if desired) and pay them (X times #miles time cents/kWh), the latter being a nightime utility rate (or an average one day/night) ?
The number X should be in the 0.250-0.300 range (AC electricity from the wall, not DC energy used for driving). Although you might be doing some charging away from home, this ballpark number is certainly fair and close enough, even if overestimated a little, a good compromise for the convenience. Win-Win.

(For discussion sake: 10k miles per year times 0.3 times 11 cents: $330. (Compare to your gas bills !))

 

[evnow]

Trouble is....it is an underground parking garage. Our actual unit is on the 4th floor way far away and up 4 stories in an elevator from the actual parking spaces.

What about the workplace ?

 

[garygid]

Kat,
Tough problem.
I suppose the LEAF will not fit in the freight elevator?

 

[Kataphn]

Kat,
Tough problem.
I suppose the LEAF will not fit in the freight elevator?

Oh Gary...that's a good one! :lol: Or the world's longest extension cord!

 

[Taka]

First thank you Gary for all your input.

Here is AV two weeks ago. Did not hear from them since.
My actually first assessment was Sep 8. They had no idea could not answer any questions on multi chargers or metering.

I have personally designed, built and wired many multi family projects.
I have been on a few assessmnets for multi family also. This is new
territory, so I need your help.

I looked at the attached pictures. I am not sure you can park cars in
the loading dock area it may be ok with the HOA but these installations
would have to be permited throught the city. Not sure if they will let
you use that area.This is the problem with having an assessment before
all the questions are answered and before permission is granted from the
HOA. It can be done but here are a few questions you can help me with.
Most important is the discussion with the HOA and approval.

If the meter and main breaker for your unit is located in the garage and
it is large enough to support the additional load of the charging dock
then we could add a load center off your main circuit breaker and feed
the charging dock and your residence. This would be located in the
electric room next to the main breaker. The charging dock would be for
you only and at your assigned parking spot. Wouldn't need to meter it
because it would be comming off of your metered power.

If not then we would have to pull power from the house panel(HOA) power.
Then this installation would have to be metered individually for each
charging dock to track electrical usage. Depending on the local rules
and laws regarding metering and charging money for it is another
story.Who would read the meter? You could be charged a monthly fee (to
cover the sub meter reading)

 

[Taka]

Here is Coulomb.

This is just the station cost, I want to provide you a complete turn key installation proposal.
But you can use this to compare the cost of the level 2 charging station at $7,980.00 level 2 charger, gate way, flex biling 5 years package.

 

[mwalsh]

Did we hear anything back from Mallory...how did her visit with AV go?

 

[malloryk]

hey guys! my assessment is tomorrow and I will def. let you know what they say. I know that AV has been spotty about keeping appt. times. Do they usually call the day before to confirm?

 

[malloryk]

just had my assessment with AV! So I thought I was parked next to the meters, turned out I was next to the gas meters, oops :? the electric meters are allllll the way on the other side of the building, so they would have to run a wire to my spot (not sure yet if I can move my parking spot so it's next to the meter), and then they'd mount the charger to the wall in front of my car. It's only a couple feet from there. My landlord was there and she's going to run it all by the property owner next week but she doesn't think they'll go for it. The electrician said that if just one or 2 people do it, the building's power will be fine (it's an old rent-controlled building). But if everyone ends up wanting to do it, they would have to bump up the power in the whole building, which will be expensive (there's about 45 units here). My landlord said that she's concerned with everyone wanting to do it if they see mine. BUT she did say that the owner is "all about conservation" so they might go for it. But probably not.

 

[mwalsh]

Oh, well. If that doesn't pan out...keep working those other ideas you had!