Capacity Loss on 2011-2012 LEAFs

[Roadburner440]

Yeah it is weird that it has gotten this quiet. As long as they are taking care of people that are affected though that is the main thing. While I would like to know the out come I doubt we ever will since they seem to be settling on a case by case basis.

 

[Stoaty]

There have been a couple of reports of refusal on Nissan's part to buy back or convert to lease (Saintyohann, one other I can't remember), but other than that it's been pretty much silent. As long as those folks are being taken care of (and Nissan changes their sales practices in Arizona), I think it's fine. We don't need no stinkin' class action lawsuits.

 

[palmermd]

I'm not sure why Nissan let this issue get so far out of hand. Had they taken care of a few people early on, it would never have been such a hot topic. I don't think this is quite done yet, but now that the vocal leaders of this group have moved on, we are awaiting another unhappy owner to revive it. My only hope is that Nissan takes care of the owners before they become unhappy enough to start ranting here and calling in the news media.

 

[Weatherman]

We may have, also, reached a point where losing that first bar is no longer a shock. The problem has been studied enough over the past five months that the loss of the first bar has become more predictable.

The remaining question seems to be where the threshold is for really rapid capacity loss. Current conjecture is that those in tropical climates and those along the southern edge of the humid subtropical climate zone will see rapid losses in battery capacity, but the lack of reports from Hawaii suggest otherwise.

In any case, if Florida, Alabama and Georgia LEAF capacity bars start to fall next spring, I don’t think it will be much of a surprise (certainly not worthy of media attention or lawsuits). We can’t say we didn’t see it coming.

 

[cwerdna]

I'm not sure why Nissan let this issue get so far out of hand. Had they taken care of a few people early on, it would never have been such a hot topic. I don't think this is quite done yet, but now that the vocal leaders of this group have moved on, we are awaiting another unhappy owner to revive it. My only hope is that Nissan takes care of the owners before they become unhappy enough to start ranting here and calling in the news media.

I don't know either.

I suspect that unless something more widely is done for the AZ/TX and other hot climate folks, we're going to have another wave of unhappy people who hit their 2nd or beyond summer and realize what's going on (finally get a clue about the capacity gauge and notice significant range loss) each summer...

 

[spooka]

My car is being tested Wed. I'll post Nissan's response. My feeling is that the next step in this process is having Nissan go to BBB arbitration. I expect to get the "go pound sand" call later this week. It will be interesting to see how they will answer some tough questions in front of an arbitrator.

As an example:
After presenting Mr. Andy Palmer's interview with Mrs. Sexton to the arbitrator:
My first question set, as "Mr. Arizona", will be "At what point did Nissan know that drivers in Phoenix could only drive 7,500 miles a year to obtain 76% battery capacity levels in 5 years and does Nissan consider only driving 20 miles a day a substantive amount considering this is 1/5th the advertised charge range of the LEAF and only 60% of what an average car is driven daily? Can you name any other vehicle sold today that has this limitation and is the recommendation by Nissan Executive Vice President, Andy Palmer to drive 7,500 miles per year or face severe and premature battery degradation being provided to consumers in hot environments upon purchase?


If anyone has a question they would like me to ask, pm me or reply here. I'll ask and provide the answer (if I legally can) here or by pm, depending on how I get your question. I'll initially attempt to ask questions when Nissan rejects me later this week after they examine Sonic and tell me all is well.

 

[kolmstead]

How about:

When will Nissan provide LEAF owners with detailed instructions on how to best prolong the life of the high-voltage battery? Other than Mr. Palmer's indications that we shouldn't drive so much, and should not live in Phoenix, we still have nothing in the owner's manual to go by other than a vague reference to 'long-life' charging. We have not been told at what battery temperature severe degradation starts, and we have not been instructed to not leave our batteries at full charge for prolonged periods. These techniques come from reading studies on lithium ion batteries, not from Nissan. Does Nissan recommend these techniques? I don't think that we know. If leaving batteries charged to 100% for days or months is indeed hard on the battery, when will Nissan let the dealers know that they are damaging the cars?

-Karl

 

[wiltingleaf]

This topic has gotten fairly quiet. Is Nissan contacting various TX and AZ owners and requiring them to have non-disclosures as the outcome? Either buyback or promise of a new battery when they get mass produced in TN (for those whose range limits their use). That would hold over the leasers. In any event, it seems liked things were moving in a positive direction. (ie. saw a sale of a 'new' LEAF with limited range due to dealer hyper charging get replaced with a new one in another thread).

For my buyback, there were no non-disclosures or "gag" orders involved. The check that was sent to the back to payoff my loan just cleared today, so you can expect some more information to show up on my website later this week.

 

[TonyWilliams]

...they seem to be settling on a case by case basis.

Which is EXACTLY, word for word, what they said they would do.

 

[ALLWATZ]

This topic has gotten fairly quiet. Is Nissan contacting various TX and AZ owners and requiring them to have non-disclosures as the outcome? Either buyback or promise of a new battery when they get mass produced in TN (for those whose range limits their use). That would hold over the leasers. In any event, it seems liked things were moving in a positive direction. (ie. saw a sale of a 'new' LEAF with limited range due to dealer hyper charging get replaced with a new one in another thread).

For my buyback, there were no non-disclosures or "gag" orders involved. The check that was sent to the back to payoff my loan just cleared today, so you can expect some more information to show up on my website later this week.

No reason for Nissan to hide anything. They have a lot of disgrunteled owners who have axes to grind. In their eyes, you can say anything you like as they consider you, at this point, a quack. Nothing wrong with the slightly used, one owner car now for sale in AZ.

 

[smkettner]

If anyone has a question they would like me to ask, pm me or reply here. I'll ask and provide the answer (if I legally can) here or by pm, depending on how I get your question. I'll initially attempt to ask questions when Nissan rejects me later this week after they examine Sonic and tell me all is well.

Ask what the price and availability of a replacement battery. After all that is the real loss going on here.

 

[ALLWATZ]

You can add one more to the bar losers in the Phoenix area. Someone told me that Skywagon lost a bar about a month ago or so and they said he has already traded it in on some kind of hybrid after Nissan told him the same thing...his loss was "gradual" and "normal". He bought it in Jan. and had over 15K miles on it. The person didn't know which hybrid he bought.

Found this car on the cars.com,
http://www.cars.com/go/search/detail.jsp?tab=summary&recnum=&actLog=&listingId=96419815&paId=469893178&listingRecNum=2&criteria=sf1Dir%3dDESC%26mkId%3d20077%26stkTyp%3dU%26mdId%3d35968%26rd%3d250%26crSrtFlds%3dstkTypId-feedSegId-mkId-mdId%26zc%3d85281%26rn%3d0%26PMmt%3d1-1-0%26stkTypId%3d28881%26sf2Dir%3dASC%26sf1Nm%3dprice%26sf2Nm%3dmiles%26isDealerGrouping%3dfalse%26rpp%3d5026feedSegId3d28705&tracktype=usedcc&pageNumber=&numResultsPerPage=50&largeNumResultsPerPage=0&sortorder=descending&sortfield=PRICE&certifiedOnly=false&&aff=national" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;.
Asking $21,500 at Fairway Auto Wholesale, wonder what skywagon got for it?

 

[ALLWATZ]

You can add me to the one bar loss list, as of 9/17

Date: 9/17/2012
Location: Mission Viejo, CA
VIN: 04199
Miles: 17,500
Purchased: 6/2/2011
Nissan Case number: 9511355
Manuf. date: 5/2011

Found this one for sale at a dealer too.
http://www.cars.com/go/search/detail.jsp?tracktype=usedcc&csDlId=&csDgId=&listingId=100333272&listingRecNum=4&criteria=sf1Dir%3DDESC%26mkId%3D20077%26stkTyp%3DU%26mdId%3D35968%26rd%3D250%26crSrtFlds%3DstkTypId-feedSegId-mkId-mdId%26zc%3D92260%26rn%3D0%26PMmt%3D1-1-0%26stkTypId%3D28881%26sf2Dir%3DDESC%26sf1Nm%3Dmiles%26sf2Nm%3Dprice%26isDealerGrouping%3Dfalse%26rpp%3D50%26feedSegId%3D28705&aff=national&listType=1" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

 

[GerryAZ]

You can add one more to the bar losers in the Phoenix area. Someone told me that Skywagon lost a bar about a month ago or so and they said he has already traded it in on some kind of hybrid after Nissan told him the same thing...his loss was "gradual" and "normal". He bought it in Jan. and had over 15K miles on it. The person didn't know which hybrid he bought.

Found this car on the cars.com,
http://www.cars.com/go/search/detail.jsp?tab=summary&recnum=&actLog=&listingId=96419815&paId=469893178&listingRecNum=2&criteria=sf1Dir%3dDESC%26mkId%3d20077%26stkTyp%3dU%26mdId%3d35968%26rd%3d250%26crSrtFlds%3dstkTypId-feedSegId-mkId-mdId%26zc%3d85281%26rn%3d0%26PMmt%3d1-1-0%26stkTypId%3d28881%26sf2Dir%3dASC%26sf1Nm%3dprice%26sf2Nm%3dmiles%26isDealerGrouping%3dfalse%26rpp%3d5026feedSegId3d28705&tracktype=usedcc&pageNumber=&numResultsPerPage=50&largeNumResultsPerPage=0&sortorder=descending&sortfield=PRICE&certifiedOnly=false&&aff=national" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;.
Asking $21,500 at Fairway Auto Wholesale, wonder what skywagon got for it?

That dealer is really close to home. I think I will go home and get the motorcycle, take a ride over there, and feel them out a little bit about the car.

Gerry

 

[jspearman]

I'm still waiting to hear back after getting the "nothing is wrong" speech on Friday from the arbitrator. I told them I knew the owners of the cars bought back through the lemon law, and that I didn't really want to go through that, and that I wasn't sure they did either. I said I also personally know more than the 11 people they claim have been affected (the tech from Casa Grande quoted the 11 figure).

I really don't understand Nissan's strategy at this point, and why they are still stonewalling. They should have asked me what I wanted to do with the car when I drove it in for testing on Wednesday and offered to buy it back on the spot. No more of this dancing around, or pretending that the ship isn't sinking while my boots fill up with water.

I told her I would be happy to have them buy the car back and move into a two-year lease. We would be hurting in the second year, but my wife really loves the Leaf and wants to keep one. My patience is wearing thin, though.

 

[Roadburner440]

To be honest I don't even know if I would do a 2 year lease at this point... The more and more I look at it I want a car that I am comftorable with buying. While leasing the Leaf has been a good experiment in going full BEV for me I think if I had an option to get out of the lease I would be getting a 60kwh Model S. I think the extra money for the purchase price is more than worth the liquid cooling system, and additional range. While in the beginning I was leaning on buying out our Leaf lease and keeping the car for the long haul I am more and more leaning toward giving the car back at the end of the lease. So if I were you if I were given an out I would cut my losses and run. I know all cars have their issues. For me though having issues with range like that is not acceptable.

 

[ALLWATZ]

I'm still waiting to hear back after getting the "nothing is wrong" speech on Friday from the arbitrator. I told them I knew the owners of the cars bought back through the lemon law, and that I didn't really want to go through that, and that I wasn't sure they did either. I said I also personally know more than the 11 people they claim have been affected (the tech from Casa Grande quoted the 11 figure).

I really don't understand Nissan's strategy at this point, and why they are still stonewalling. They should have asked me what I wanted to do with the car when I drove it in for testing on Wednesday and offered to buy it back on the spot. No more of this dancing around, or pretending that the ship isn't sinking while my boots fill up with water.

I told her I would be happy to have them buy the car back and move into a two-year lease. We would be hurting in the second year, but my wife really loves the Leaf and wants to keep one. My patience is wearing thin, though.

It's an old car dealer trick (in this case manufacturer). The longer they make you wait, the less you are willing to accept in return. Stick to your guns.

 

[GaslessInSeattle]

I'm guessing there are a lot of people doing that same calculation in their head, I do wish we had leased our 2011.

To be honest I don't even know if I would do a 2 year lease at this point... The more and more I look at it I want a car that I am comftorable with buying. While leasing the Leaf has been a good experiment in going full BEV for me I think if I had an option to get out of the lease I would be getting a 60kwh Model S. I think the extra money for the purchase price is more than worth the liquid cooling system, and additional range. While in the beginning I was leaning on buying out our Leaf lease and keeping the car for the long haul I am more and more leaning toward giving the car back at the end of the lease. So if I were you if I were given an out I would cut my losses and run. I know all cars have their issues. For me though having issues with range like that is not acceptable.

 

[smkettner]

I would just ask for a new battery, then sell it myself. Maybe sell it out of state.

 

[TonyWilliams]

I would just ask for a new battery, then sell it myself. Maybe sell it out of state.

Nissan isn't "just" handing out batteries. Good luck selling any LEAF, with $100-$200 leases on brand new LEAFs (that also qualify for $2500 rebate in California).

My old LEAF is still sitting on the lot at CarMax since July; I'm sure they "just" want to sell it.

Out of state (or country) might work, but that falls a bit outside of "just sell" it.