Capacity Loss on 2011-2012 LEAFs

[TimLee]

... the SOH in particular, it gives you the remaining % of capacity from new.

Maybe.
SOH is a 7 bit integer value from the Car CAN.

Whether it is what Nissan calls % capacity has not been confirmed.

But in general it does usually stay pretty close to the current pack capacity AHr divided by the brand new pack initial AHr.

 

[TimLee]

... Also my Leaf Spy data says the battery is only holding 16.5 kWh, with a 95.3% SOC while the car indicates its 100% charged. 16.7 kWh is only 69% of 24 kWh so does this mean I'm about to loose a third bar? I took my measurements during and after an L2 charge in my garage starting at 70% SOC.

Perhaps this explains why I can only get low 60ish miles out of the car these days (at 3.5 miles/kWh efficiency).

The 24 kWh is a nominal rating based on voltages Nissan does not let the pack charge to these voltages due to severe reliability and capacity degradation if they did.
Brand new LEAF only 21 to 21.5 kWh is available for use when fully charged.
And that is fully charged all the way down to Turtle.

LEAF Spy SOC is also theoretical.
It is never more than about 94% fully charged.

Your range is about right for a two capacity bar loss LEAF.

 

[dhanson865]

I perused the wiki (using the link from your signature) and I don't see any 2013's reported that have lost 2 bars. Am I reading it wrong?

There is a 3 bar 2013 loser, we don't have the data for when he lost bar 2 so he isn't in that section.

There are at least 6 2013 cars in the one bar lost section.

That puts you below the worst case and above the best case (or the other way around, maybe I should just say between best and worst).

You could also look at http://www.mynissanleaf.com/viewtopic.php?f=9&t=20690 for a discussion of 2013 losers.

You'll see some disagreement about how normal it is, older posts before we saw 2013 losers assumed the 2013 battery was better than the 2012 battery.

I'd argue the difference is minor or practically non existent and it just took time for people like you to show up and give us data.

You should also try and find the closest matches by manufacturing date of a 2012 model in the list and your city, st combo. You'll probably find someone in the next town to compare against. I don't know California that well to know what the best matches are for you.


| Nov 27th 2015
| Motarra
| Stockton, CA
| 24,105
| 32 months
| 03/13
| 2013 Model
| VIN 405122

use months / date of manufacture to help figure out the significance of a location based match. Also consider this reply from http://www.mynissanleaf.com/viewtopic.php?t=20912

Re: Which factors have the biggest impact on battery life?

1 Heat (ambient temp)
2 Heat (driving or charging)
3 Heat - because Nissan uses passive cooling the heat will remain for 10-20 hours after being generated or absorbed
4 Age
5 Heat - just making sure you saw this
6 any thing else

seriously you don't need to worry about speed of charging, number of charge cycles, or miles driven. Just pay attention to heat and age.

To which EVdriver responded that I should have added

* Sitting at high SOC
* Discharging to low SOC

in there somewhere.

 

[CarPortal]

AHr=50.89, SOH=77%

Looks like there are cars in Sacramento, CA (large city with similar climate) that have last one bar and a commuter in Angels Camp, CA who has also lost a bar.

The climate here in the Central Valley of California is very different than the coastal and mountain climates of the rest of the state. Our summers include several months of 90F+ with several weeks at 100F+. Our winters include a few weeks where the night time temps fall to freezing...e.g. last few nights here dipped down to 28F. So while we are only 75 miles away from the SF/Bay Area (and the Pacific Ocean) our climate is completely different. In my opinion, this extreme climate has pretty much destroyed my battery. Maybe destroy is a too strong a word, but from a consumer perspective thats what it is...by the time my lease expires in April I think I'll be down three bars. In my climate the battery will just keep sliding from there. So even if Nissan where to replace my battery, which they won't, I'll just end up in the same situation all over again.

None of this is a complaint...rather it's all very interesting to me. I'm just really glad that for the first time ever I leased. I'm what people in the car business call a "keeper". I still own the first new car I ever bought (1994 Isuzu Rodeo). This 2013 Leaf was my first and probably last lease ever. I must have an EV though, as I cannot go back to driving an ICE on a daily basis. I guess I'll need to start looking at 2016 Volts and used 2013-14 Model S's.

Thanks for any further insights on this. I'll update if I loose a third bar before returning the car to Nissan.

 

[TimLee]

... I must have an EV though, as I cannot go back to driving an ICE on a daily basis. ...

As a three capacity bar loser who purchased 4 1/2 years ago who likely will lose the capacity bar lottery with Nissan,

but who still loves the LEAF even though it will likely be about the same total cost of ownership as my 2009 Altima ICE,

both the joy and the pain of it all :roll:

 

[redLEAF]

Sorry but didn't read all 740+ pages here but came across something where perhaps the battery 'self-repair' aspect comes in?

We charge 80% weekdays and 100% on weekends; we have a '12 SL with about 36K miles; moderate climate (Chicagoland).

When we charge 100%, we definitely see 1 lost 'bar' but after driving it for a few miles or more, the 'bar' actually COMES BACK !!

This has happened fairly consistently over the last few weekends; that first 'bar' must be borderline; all bars show every day during the week but again only charging 80%. Also, when I charge mid-day on weekends for more range, 'bar' does not typically disappear, just the overnight charging.

As we're in the winter season now, have been seeing just 4 battery temp bars; top GOM range at 100% has been around 90 miles which drops pretty quickly once under way.

Car will be due for its annual battery check at the end of this month which of course I'm sure will show nothing but 5 stars but was just wondering if anyone else has seen this behavior?

 

[fooljoe]

The bars of interest here are the skinny bars to the right of the charge bars. These don't vary depending on whether you're charged to 80% or 100% or whatever, and they definitely don't ever come back once they drop.

 

[dhanson865]

due to the curve of the dash in one dimension and the curve off the "bars" in the other two dimensions the top couple of bars are rather thin looking.

As the 12th big wide left bar goes dark it creates an optical illusion if you have exactly 11 narrow bars.

If you look at this at night with the dash brightness high enough the backlight bleed will outline the blank bars though. The illusion only tricks you in the daytime, at night you'll see you are missing a bar.

 

[kolmstead]

dhanson865, I never have figured out how to edit Wiki. I'm probably only listed in the 1-bar losers.

Leaf JN1AZ0CP3BT000257
built 10/2010
Purchased 1/15/2011
12th bar July 16, 2012 14278 miles
11th bar July 22, 2013 22400 miles
P3227 performed 1/15/2014
10th bar March 2, 2015 33461 miles, 46.01 Ahr, 49.36% Hx
Location: Ridgecrest, CA

-Karl

 

[redLEAF]

due to the curve of the dash in one dimension and the curve off the "bars" in the other two dimensions the top couple of bars are rather thin looking.

As the 12th big wide left bar goes dark it creates an optical illusion if you have exactly 11 narrow bars.

If you look at this at night with the dash brightness high enough the backlight bleed will outline the blank bars though. The illusion only tricks you in the daytime, at night you'll see you are missing a bar.

I took some before and after photos, it actually does appear to 'come back' but the display DOES trick your eyes; the 85 miles indicated range photo is at start up; after driving about 7 miles one 'thick' bar drops but the number of the 'thin' bars remain the same (at 11); some difference in indicated range (now shows 83 miles) was due to being in Park at start-up and then ECO mode while rolling to a stop at a light. At a not so quick glance as well as minor drop in range it appears to have come back, will probably only be really noticeable after I lose another bar. With the car being in a semi-warm garage (around 60 F) the temp bars increased from 4 to 5 as well but colder winter temps may mean I'll need to 100% charge -- the other day I had 80% charged, showed an indicated 60 miles of range and 18 miles remaining after a 30 mile R/T commute that I don't vary much; temps were only in the 30's.


http://www.mynissanleaf.com/download/file.php?mode=view&id=2202

http://www.mynissanleaf.com/download/file.php?mode=view&id=2201

 

[dhanson865]

dhanson865, I never have figured out how to edit Wiki. I'm probably only listed in the 1-bar losers.

Leaf JN1AZ0CP3BT000257
built 10/2010
Purchased 1/15/2011
12th bar July 16, 2012 14278 miles
11th bar July 22, 2013 22400 miles
P3227 performed 1/15/2014
10th bar March 2, 2015 33461 miles, 46.01 Ahr, 49.36% Hx
Location: Ridgecrest, CA

-Karl

|- style="background:#ffffff;" valign=top
| #49
| Mar 2, 2015
| [http://www.mynissanleaf.com/viewtopic.php?f=30&t=8802&start=1290 kolmstead]
| Ridgecrest, CA
| 33,461 miles
| 51 months
| 11/10
| model year unknown
| 00257
| Jul 16, 2012
| 897-4570
| "''... zero QC, always charged to 80% using an end timer, noticeable decrease in range, can't make the 83 mile trip to dealer any more ...''"

Is it actually a 2011 model?

 

[kolmstead]

Yes. 2011 SL. 41027 miles now, 9 bars, 42.37 Ahr.

-Karl

 

[sub3marathonman]

The bars of interest here are the skinny bars to the right of the charge bars. These don't vary depending on whether you're charged to 80% or 100% or whatever, and they definitely don't ever come back once they drop.

I will disagree. When I lost the first capacity bar for my 2011 LEAF, from 12 to 11, it occurred just as I was driving to my first annual battery check. As I was driving the 70 miles home after the battery check I saw bar #12 come back on, and then disappear again. I am almost 100% certain that #12 came back on as I was driving. I am about 80% certain that #12 disappeared again as I was driving, but it may have been after stopping for a recharge on the way home. It definitely did not remain for very long.

This happened back in 4/2013, and was at 12770 miles. It was before the P3227 update, which has at some point subsequently been done to the car.

 

[fooljoe]

Capacity bars reappearing is not something I've heard of before, but apparently it is possible. I would suspect that this is one of the things that the P3227 update "fixed." It appears redLeaf's post was about the charge bars and not the capacity bars anyway - no surprise at all that charge bars can come back (e.g. going down a long hill.)

 

[Sondy132001]

I noticed yesterday that I lost my 2nd bar at 32,656 on my 2012 Leaf. I bought it used so it had already had the first bar gone by the time I got it. I keep it covered allt he time and only drive it about 40 miles a day and usually not on weekends. My GOM's are still around 60-66 when I trickle charge my car every night and leave for work in the am. I rearely use the quick charge stations, maybe 6 times since I bought it in March of this year. Hoping this baby lasts me until I can get a Tesla in 2017 ! Then my leaf goes to my son.

S

 

[ElectricVehicle]

Just as you're loosing a capacity bar you may see that one bar come and go for some days. After a few weeks that capacity bar will be gone for good and not come back as the battery degrades a little bit more..

 

[LeftieBiker]

I keep it covered allt he time and only drive it about 40 miles a day and usually not on weekends.

It isn't clear if you charge it every day, but if so you don't want to leave it sitting at full charge for more than a couple of hours - especially in Summer. That will speed up capacity loss. If you can, leave it somewhere between 30% and 50% over the weekends.

 

[o00scorpion00o]

One of the things they take note of in the yearly service, "inspection" is time spent at a high state of charge.

After 17,300 miles my 2015 is showing no signs of degradation and leaf spy showing 100% health and 66 AH. Hopefully it's not much less next year.

 

[dhanson865]

One of the things they take note of in the yearly service, "inspection" is time spent at a high state of charge.

After 17,300 miles my 2015 is showing no signs of degradation and leaf spy showing 100% health and 66 AH. Hopefully it's not much less next year.

congrats for living somewhere cool. You'll never have to replace that battery unless you move several countries further south.

 

[o00scorpion00o]

One of the things they take note of in the yearly service, "inspection" is time spent at a high state of charge.

After 17,300 miles my 2015 is showing no signs of degradation and leaf spy showing 100% health and 66 AH. Hopefully it's not much less next year.

congrats for living somewhere cool. You'll never have to replace that battery unless you move several countries further south.

The climate helps but the changes they made to the battery from 2013 July built + leafs has certainly made a big difference.