Buy Leaf that sat for year?

[RegGuheert]

Here's an example of a sold LEAF listing in Scottsdale, AZ on ebay. 2011 with 42k miles for $12,900

IF that LEAF has the battery capacity warranty, that could be a very good deal!

 

[speedymike]

Thanks so much for the helpful responses!

 

[Peace]

Thanks cgaydos, for your thoughtful comments. Yes, I have been doing emails & phone calls w/ dealers all day today (I'm not comfortable showing up at the dealership to negotiate, that's why I've done a lot of online research so I knew almost exactly what's in each dealership inventories, etc. before talking to them). And you're right, I've got several responses and waiting for a few more. Thanks also for the tax info, I understand that you have to have $7.5K liabilities to qualify.

So, here's the best offer so far: this dealer admitted that he REALLY wants to move this last '13 Leaf SL off his lot. I think I've got everything i want except for the color (this black '13 SL does not have the premium pkg w/ the back up camera + Bose sound system though). He's quoting me $29,990.75 out the door, included the current Nissan' $3,500 cash rebate + their own "bonus cash" (base invoice '13 Leaf SL is $33,485 - with the $7.5k tax incentive, i guess the bottom price will be $22,500). I will also get the 0% financing for my choice of however many options they give (opting for 5 or 6 yrs, as a shorter timeframe would be too much for my family budget - no down payment required). The one issue i'm concerned with is the battery. this car has been sitting on the lot for one year! several people have test driven it and they brought it to a festival once so total mileage is 193 miles. He said they have a technician taking good care of the battery and will make sure everything is shipshape if/when we show up to finalize. I'd like to see full 12 bars on the car Also, this is an out of town dealership, about 70 miles from where i live. So, there's a concern w/ bringing it home. He said last year one client drove home (close to where i live), set a cruise control and got home safely with 8 miles to spare. I hope it'll be Ok for us too, but I do have AAA protection, just in case.

Does this sound good?

Oh, you mentioned 30% tax credit EVSE "home charging station" is that still available in all states? IF so, and if I cannot claim it in the same year, maybe I should strategically wait until next year to install, to take advantage of both? I'm thinking of getting this installed after we get the car, but will wait (can trickle charge) if the credit is available. btw, I don't know how the other people can get the 240V "home charger" installed under $1K, I got a rough estimate yesterday and the electrician said for sure it'll be at least $2,000! this is because my house is old and the panel box is not up to code, "maxed out" and he has to update/upgrade w a bigger box, and also has to fix the location of the meter outside, etc. Of course, I'll get more estimates, but wow, I was shocked to hear this. Maybe we'll just trickle charge…but, we also hear that it might be a fire hazards to trickle charge (melted/burned plug-in due to electricity going on all the time, it gets hot and … burned ???) That's why I want to do this right and have an electrician assess everything and make it so that we have a separate whatever it's called in the garage so it doesn't affect other things in the house when we charge the car. I wish it were only $1K ! (not to mention that we have to pay for the ClipperCreek yet.) At least, hopefully i have a great deal on the '13 SL (?!)
P.

 

[Phatcat73]

In my situation my tax obligation will not be close to $7,500 therefore it represents a cost for a very similar vehicle to previous years. Given my annual mileage (2,000?) a cheaper used vehicle will be fine but I totally concur that if someone will owe enough taxes then by all means go new.

With that low of mileage you may want to look at the imiev as well, which will also fare better against battery degradation in your environment.

 

[cwerdna]

With that low of mileage you may want to look at the imiev as well, which will also fare better against battery degradation in your environment.

And they're very cheap now: http://green.autoblog.com/2013/12/04/mitsubishi-i-miev-priced-ridiculously-low-22995/" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;.

Too bad it looks like a clown car, is quite slow and has a rather spartan interior.

 

[cgaydos]

Does this sound good?

Oh, you mentioned 30% tax credit EVSE "home charging station" is that still available in all states? IF so, and if I cannot claim it in the same year, maybe I should strategically wait until next year to install, to take advantage of both? I'm thinking of getting this installed after we get the car, but will wait (can trickle charge) if the credit is available. btw, I don't know how the other people can get the 240V "home charger" installed under $1K, I got a rough estimate yesterday and the electrician said for sure it'll be at least $2,000! this is because my house is old and the panel box is not up to code, "maxed out" and he has to update/upgrade w a bigger box, and also has to fix the location of the meter outside, etc. Of course, I'll get more estimates, but wow, I was shocked to hear this.

So I suggest you post this on other threads, or perhaps start a new thread, to get more responses. I can't really tell you if that price sounds good given current market conditions as I haven't been testing the market recently, but a lot of other people here have been.

On the 30% tax credit, my understanding is that it was renewed and is available in all states in 2014, but others may comment. I don't know about 2015 - there have been issues getting it renewed in Congress in recent years.

Your quote for over $2k does deserve at least one other quote, just to be sure. But when I say most people get an EVSE installed for under $1k these days that does assume you don't need any special electrical work done - just run a new 240V line to your garage, ideally where the service panel is already located. If you have an old service panel (guessing 100 amp from the description) that is maxed out then a replacement panel is a big project and in some situations can cost $2k just by itself. On the plus side, that increases the value of your house and gives you flexibility for future electrical work, which you don't have now.

You can get by with just trickle charging if you don't drive all that much, but even then I'd recommend getting that panel replaced. For a normal, modern, up-to-code 110V outlet trickle charge is not an issue. If your electrical system is known to be a) not up to code and b) undersized for the current load, then there is a risk that the trickle charge load on the 110V could cause the breaker to trip or, in the worst-case, a fire.

 

[Peace]

thanks for your helpful reply cgaydos. I will definitely upgrade our electrical system. regarding the pricing of the '13 Leaf, I think I'd know what a good deal is by now. thanks again.
Peace

 

[TimLee]

thank you TimLee and Theds for your comments. I'm sort of leaning towards leasing right now as well. ...
Peace

So you've now switched back to purchasing instead leasing where you said you were at in the earlier thread? And on a five or six year loan where you'll owe way more than the vehicle is worth for the life of the loan?
Why would you do that?

Would be best if you updated your location to MN.

But your situation and the OPs situation are radically different so this thread has become very hard to follow.

 

[Peace]

Hello TimLee,
Yes, i'm afraid I've changed my mind back and forth quite a bit. But i had a lengthy discussion w hubby and we've agreed that our situation works better w/ a purchase vs a lease. Both of our commutes to work are very short, 10 mile roundtrip for me (and i work from home once to twice/wk), and 12 miles for him. We will not be able to "use up" the lease mileage allowed annually. Even with running errands around town, we just can't see ourselves maxing out the lease mileage (even though lease pricing is great right now, we will be paying for mileage unused or stress ourselves creating trips to use it - this sounds ridiculous, i know but it's a trend of thoughts). I do understand the big issue of battery/charge range reduction over time that i read about here and the uncertainty of what Nissan will or will not do in the future - perhaps not to the extent that experienced Leaf owners here do, but I feel more at ease when i think of owning the Leaf vs. leasing. I worry about dinging/ scratching the car and the hassle of doing this all over again every few years. We both enjoy very much the freedom from car payments after say 5 years and don't mind "driving around" in older but well maintained functional cars. With the 100,000 miles warranty, I hope to drive this car at least 10 years. Then, even with the degraded battery and the range gotten down a small amount, we could still go to our jobs and back. If Nissan has a favorable policy for battery replacement - great. IF not, we trust that we'll still be using our Leaf for most local driving needs and enjoy not only freedom from car payments, dependency on gas price fluctuation, not having to deal with car salesmen, and most of all feeling great helping our planet earth. I do know that cars are only losing propositions and for my sensibility and practicality, I just need a dependable, easy to maintain vehicle that transports me from point A to point B. am not into fancy and upgrades. in fact, i worry about learning how to use everything in the Leaf as it looks kind of scary with so many gadgets. We've delayed purchasing a car for 3 years now but our 14 year old Chevy is on its last leg, and the idea of an EV just so appeals to me more than ever before. Perhaps this decision seems more emotional for me, but I've been stressing out about leasing vs buying for a while now, and I'm just going with what makes me feel better.

I know you're all trying to be helpful and I do appreciate it a lot. It feels like a family already with siblings protecting one another. It feels very nice - and I thank you all for it.
Sincerely,
Peace

 

[cgaydos]

....but I feel more at ease when i think of owning the Leaf vs. leasing. I worry about dinging/ scratching the car and the hassle of doing this all over again every few years. We both enjoy very much the freedom from car payments after say 5 years and don't mind "driving around" in older but well maintained functional cars. With the 100,000 miles warranty, I hope to drive this car at least 10 years. Then, even with the degraded battery and the range gotten down a small amount, we could still go to our jobs and back.

Have to agree with both parts. Our leased LEAF has all sorts of dings - guess that is to be expected with teenagers driving a car. If I had to turn in a leased LEAF every two years and spend the money to clean it up each time it would be an expensive annoyance. As it is we'll be extending our lease for quite a while.

For the second part, the battery degradation issue affects you only to the degree that you need the full range, and that's different for each person.

 

[TimLee]

Hello TimLee,
... Both of our commutes to work are very short, 10 mile roundtrip for me (and i work from home once to twice/wk), and 12 miles for him. We will not be able to "use up" the lease mileage allowed annually.
Peace

My wife and I are retired and rarely travel more than 5 miles away. As urbanites everything is so close to us. Thus even though we live SE of Phoenix we think a leaf is a good fit.

Thanks Peace.
I understand your plan better and makes sense.
I had missed how short your trips are and low your annual mileage is.
In that regard you and speedymike are in a very similar situation.
Difference being climate (MN very good much slower capacity degradation, Phoenix very fast capacity degradation) and federal tax liability (you have enough to purchase and get the $7,500 federal credit and speedymike doesn't so is buying used).

Leasing does not work for low miles drivers. My downtown round trip is 36 miles and being retired I only do that once or twice per week, doing less than 7,000 miles per year.
If I had leased and driven a LEAF six to eight years my cost would turn out about the same based on what I know now.
Of course the battery capacity will be unable to do the downtown roundtrip without charging. Car will be disposable for my situation.
You have advantage with low miles and MN that the car will work longer than for me.
Capacity degradation is linear though and in Phoenix is faster rate due to heat.

You might also consider used LEAF?

And both you and speedymike might want to consider the Volt. With low miles per day only time it will burn gas is for its occasionally engine "maintenance" operation.

 

[Peace]

Thank you Tim Lee and cgaydos, for your comments - appreciate them.

Just bought a Pearl White 2014 Leaf SL this afternoon. It's a beautiful car! I'm now officially a member of this "club"
Peace

 

[cgaydos]

Thank you Tim Lee and cgaydos, for your comments - appreciate them.

Just bought a Pearl White 2014 Leaf SL this afternoon. It's a beautiful car! I'm now officially a member of this "club"
Peace

Yeeehaaaa! Congratulations. You will now have that silly new-LEAF-owner grin for the next several days/weeks.

 

[TimLee]

Thank you Tim Lee and cgaydos, for your comments - appreciate them.

Just bought a Pearl White 2014 Leaf SL this afternoon. It's a beautiful car! I'm now officially a member of this "club"
Peace

Congratulations :!:
You are to be commended for your diligent research.
That smile on your face driving a LEAF doesn't go away, at least not for me in 37 months.
And Nissan's Friday announcement they will sell replacement batteries at a pretty reasonable price improves the viability of long term LEAF operation at a government subsidized total cost of ownership that is comparable to driving an ICE.
Some lower for high miles drivers, just a bit higher for low miles drivers.
And you don't have to buy gas or worry about gas price escalation due to severe problems in several major oil producers.

 

[Peace]

thank you!
wow, I didn't even know there was such an announcement - was too busy negotiating with several dealers. I got them to bid for my business, and I believe i've got a fair price at the end Great news though!
Peace

 

[braineo]

bought a 2011 built in October 2011 in December 2012 as a new demo with 800 miles. no battery degradation at all, started using Leaf Spy as it was developed and was fine with 50 winter & 70 mile Summer range on year 2. car is driven like a bat out of hell. Only lost 1st bar at 18k miles in Atlanta area. expect a new battery under warranty by year 5.

 

[speedymike]

Both dealers started coming down in price so did another test drive on the one that sat for a long time. This time I brought obd2 dongle and Leaf Spy as was suggested. However, the gid level started at only 171 and continued to drop throughout test drive. It finished at 135 gids when I turned the leaf off. SOC, temp, range all seemed to work fine. Any guesses as to what was happening?

 

[speedymike]

Ok, I think I figured it out ( must the Phoenix heat, right;-)). Gids float with charge so need to have dealer fully charge car. My last reading after long test drive was 135 gids, 48%. Can I infer that max gids might be 281? (135/48*100)

 

[mwalsh]

Ok, I think I figured it out ( must the Phoenix heat, right;-)). Gids float with charge so need to have dealer fully charge car. My last reading after long test drive was 135 gids, 48%. Can I infer that max gids might be 281? (135/48*100)

Nope. At full charge you're likely to be in the range of 225 Gids (and pretty close to loosing a capacity bar). That is, if extrapolating the data from my own car works for this one (and I have no doubt it does). The only way to know for sure is to get it fully charged and check the count.

Edit: Ah, I see both cars are already down a capacity bar. Makes sense, and makes what I'm surmising all the more likely.

 

[speedymike]

Thanks for the info. Guess I'll have to recheck it.