Buy a 2015 Leaf for $11000?

[leafdecision]

If you can live with the take-aways on the stripper S model...it is Positively a No Brainer to buy the New 2015 for $11,000 !

But, if the heat pump and heated seats and quick charge are missing from the S model, you would be better off with an SV.

The New Lizard Battery in the 15, seals the deal in my mind, and probably everybody elses. Colorado must be the only place on the planet to give credits on used cars.

Research the heater !!

Also.. 3 years bumper to bumper and starting from zero with the battery and the battery warranty make this no question at all.

OK, I have a question. In looking at the 2015 Nissan website for the Leaf S vs. SV, I have a hard time justifying the $3000 difference.

The "S" deal I am looking at includes the quick charger, so that is not a difference.

The 2015 "S" has heated seats and steering wheel, Bluetooth, a USB port, an MP3 CD player, intelligent key, cruise control.

The advantage of the SV over the S I can see are:

- Heat pump
- 17" tires (a negative IMHO)
- NAV (I use my phone)
- More speakers

What else? I think for $3K I can work around the heater issue, none of the other stuff really matters to me.

 

[nibbler]

I checked this deal out yesterday. Salesman said they only order the S + quick charge package, that the only difference other than the heater is the nav (which he admitted is terrible) and I think LED headlights.

The price breakdown was $31,810 MSRP for S + QC, less the $5k Nissan rebate and the $3.3k group purchase discount.
Then there's a little more than $2k in taxes and fees, and you'll need to apply for the tax credits separately next year, which should come out to $7,500 and $5,100.

 

[adriaanm]

I have the S + QC and don't regret getting the base model. In addition to those already mentioned, it lacks the following minor creature comforts (compared to SV/SL): Bluetooth Music streaming (AD2P), more configurable charge timers (you can only set the time by when it should be fully charged), auto-dimming inside rearview mirror, passenger seat pocket, piano glossy plastic.

The only thing I wish it had was some way to set the percentage to charge to according to a schedule. Still looking for an EVSE that offers that (weirdly, hard to find??). I also haven't figured out how to make the turn signals indicate just three times when lane changing. Maybe that's operator error and not a cost savings on the S.

 

[leafdecision]

The price breakdown was $31,810 MSRP for S + QC, less the $5k Nissan rebate and the $3.3k group purchase discount.
Then there's a little more than $2k in taxes and fees, and you'll need to apply for the tax credits separately next year, which should come out to $7,500 and $5,100.

Running the numbers including my unincorporated area sales tax and the ridiculous Colorado license plates (I'm taking a swag and saying $650, does anyone know for sure?), it looks like my total net including tax credits would be $12345! Cute.

I am assuming I would get the 0% financing and the $1000 ev-charge.com card in the deal.

 

[fooljoe]

The only thing I wish it had was some way to set the percentage to charge to according to a schedule. Still looking for an EVSE that offers that (weirdly, hard to find??).

It's easy(ish) to find an EVSE that will restrict charging to a set amount of time, but if you want to charge to a given percentage charge (SOC) that's a whole different ballgame.

Remember that EVSEs are fairly "dumb" devices - basically they just have a switch that the car can command on or off. No information about the battery being charged is fed back to the EVSE, so there's no way it could know when to stop charging. It is theoretically possible to set this up, but I don't know of anyone that's done it yet. You could in theory use an OBD2 reader to extract SOC information from the car while it charges (like LeafSpy does), and you could install a remote interface in your EVSE (openEVSE has this but it's still very new), then it'd just be a matter of writing the software to tie them together.

 

[AlanSqB]

My tags were about $640 on my 2015 SV so you are pretty close. I'm getting ready to pay for year two.

Can't wait to get the tag cost on a Model S. Thanks Colorado!

 

[AlanSqB]

Also, the navi in the car is a total waste of money and space. It's a joke. I use Waze exclusively so the navi hasn't been touched since I first got the car.

The heat pump may be an overrated option. I don't think it makes a bit of difference around town when I don't care about range. On the very cold days when I have to commute to Denver, I can't use it anyway because I need every mile.

For a small bit of the money saved I could have bought some decent aftermarket wheels and tires and kept the originals to out back on at end of lease. Or used the original wheels for snow tires?

Anyway, I think if I had it to do again, I would probably have gotten the S my wife talked me out of at the dealer.

 

[adriaanm]

The only thing I wish it had was some way to set the percentage to charge to according to a schedule. Still looking for an EVSE that offers that (weirdly, hard to find??).

It's easy(ish) to find an EVSE that will restrict charging to a set amount of time, but if you want to charge to a given percentage charge (SOC) that's a whole different ballgame.

Remember that EVSEs are fairly "dumb" devices - basically they just have a switch that the car can command on or off. No information about the battery being charged is fed back to the EVSE, so there's no way it could know when to stop charging. It is theoretically possible to set this up, but I don't know of anyone that's done it yet. You could in theory use an OBD2 reader to extract SOC information from the car while it charges (like LeafSpy does), and you could install a remote interface in your EVSE (openEVSE has this but it's still very new), then it'd just be a matter of writing the software to tie them together.

Thanks for the info! Sounds like OpenXC + Z-wave/zigbee could be the ticket (to expose OBD2 to your home automation -- scary ^,^). I see there's already a thread on EVSE + zwave/zigbee (http://www.mynissanleaf.com/viewtopic.php?f=27&t=20128&start=10), so I'll start there. I was already leaning towards the Chargepoint Home, hoping that its Nest integration would also allow other applications...

 

[dgpcolorado]

...The advantage of the SV over the S I can see are:

- Heat pump
- 17" tires (a negative IMHO)
- NAV (I use my phone)
- More speakers

What else? I think for $3K I can work around the heater issue, none of the other stuff really matters to me.

I think that you have that pretty well scoped out. You also lose better charge and climate control (preheat) timers with the S model, but using the single, end-time-only, timer on the S isn't all that difficult. You will manage. And I agree that the 17 inch wheels are a negative (less efficient).

If range isn't limiting you really don't need the heat pump. If you preheat and dress warmly, you won't need to use the cabin heater much. I use the steering wheel heater a lot and the cabin heater rarely and live at a similar altitude (7670 feet, with a max of 8000 feet on my commute here in Ouray County). This is sunny Colorado, after all.

So no, the SV isn't worth the extra $3000 IMHO. Especially now that the S model has cruise control.

FWIW.

 

[blimpy]

HEAT PUMP IS A BIG DEAL IF YOU USE HEATER AT ALL... ALTERNATIVE IS JUST RESISTANCE HEATING... A HUGE DRAIN. 1.5 KW PER HOUR
4 HOURS = 6KwH or 25% of your packs capacity.. and an even bigger percentage of the usable capacity.

Unless you like snuggling hot water bottles.. re think this in Colorado winters !

Also.. it is very important to limit charge to 80(ish) percent.. unless you are driving the car right after you charge.
going to 100% and letting it sit.. is a NO NO.. ask Nissan why they call the 80% setting the "Long Life" default.

For your stated purpose, and locale... I think it is worth the money... and it will show in resale later.

Ok.. nobody buys a car for a radio.. and $150 Garmin Nav is better than anything in a car.

For a suburban grocery getter the S is fine.. and much in tune with what the original VW's were.. functional, simple, quality., economical.

 

[leafdecision]

HEAT PUMP IS A BIG DEAL IF YOU USE HEATER AT ALL... ALTERNATIVE IS JUST RESISTANCE HEATING... A HUGE DRAIN. 1.5 KW PER HOUR
4 HOURS = 6KwH or 25% of your packs capacity.. and an even bigger percentage of the usable capacity.

Here is the deal. The car would be garaged at home, so I can preheat anyway. My drive is 25 minutes. Colorado is painfully sunny most of the time, so while it is out in the parking lot at work, it will warm up by afternoon, and if it doesn't, there is a charger right outside the office door and I'll charge up to be sure I have juice to get home even with the heater.

The worst case scenario is snow during the day, but as I mentioned, the Leaf would not be my only car, I will have an AWD backup and I plan on driving that when it looks like snow anyway. If we get a surprise storm, which we do occasionally, I'll have to preheat/charge at work and head the 20 miles home, which I should be able to make, even with the heater blasting if necessary. My current car has a malfunctioning fan that only runs on low speed, and believe me, I love heated seats for that reason. My only concern will be keeping the windshield clear on the Leaf, I am sure I'll be just fine with heated seats and a heated steering wheel if I can keep the windshield clear. In low temps the heat pump kicks into resistance mode anyway, right?

 

[AlanSqB]

Correct. You know how it is here. It's either "ok it's a little chilly" or "holy crap lets burn the furniture for heat". Luckily the latter are pretty rare. I think you'll be fine. I doubt the S/SV difference will amount to anything at resale time. At best it may be worth more because you might actually be able to put an aftermarket stereo in the S where there's no chance of that with the SV of SL.

It's Boulder, not Talkeetna.

 

[ampitupco]

HEAT PUMP IS A BIG DEAL IF YOU USE HEATER AT ALL... ALTERNATIVE IS JUST RESISTANCE HEATING... A HUGE DRAIN. 1.5 KW PER HOUR
4 HOURS = 6KwH or 25% of your packs capacity.. and an even bigger percentage of the usable capacity.

Unless you like snuggling hot water bottles.. re think this in Colorado winters !

I generally don't even run the heater until it's so cold I have to (below 32) - and the heat pump won't do squat in this situation - it uses the resistance heater. So there's that.

I do love my LED headlights tho. And bluetooth streaming.

 

[LeftieBiker]

I generally don't even run the heater until it's so cold I have to (below 32) - and the heat pump won't do squat in this situation - it uses the resistance heater. So there's that.

While agree that the situation in question doesn't necessarily require the hybrid heater, it should be noted that the unit does, in fact, provide much/most of the heat down to about 24F, not 32F. The real cutoff point, where you notice that you're running mainly on resistance heat, is between 14F and 17F.

 

[LeftieBiker]

It is always so interesting to me, that the governments think it is a good idea to give free money to people who have it already...
and to the mere mortals not making 100K a year.. well we get the rebate in the form of cheaper used cars . Always living off the crumbs of the rich folks.

A bit OT, but as a Rabid Socialist myself, I have to point out that to get the tax credit all us Poor Folks have to do is lease, and then if we want, buy the car when the lease ends. It's surprisingly close to the same amount payed outright for a new car purchase. The tax credit is claimed by Nissan, and they apply it to the down payment. I actually prefer this arrangement, as we get to drive a new car for 2-4 years, then decide, with no lost resale value for us, if we actually want to keep it or not. I may buy my Leaf next year, or I may lease a new one with a lizard pack, but the great thing is that I get to choose. Ask someone who bought a Leaf before this year how happy they are with that decision, and odds are they will turn the air blue...

 

[Nfuzzy]

When I submitted my taxes I neglected to deduct the NMAC cash, which CO IRS corrected and reduced my rebate.
So...
You have to deduct the 7500 Fed rebate AND any other rebates. The NMAC cash is considered a rebate apparently.

So my CO credit was (29010-7500-3500)*.24=4322.

Yours would be (29010-7500-5000)*.24=3962
Still a great deal and I wouldn't hesitate to recommend the S trim, I have no regrets there, even regarding the heater.

Then again, no one answered your used question. The math is simple the way I read the form. You buy one for 10000 and you'll get 24% of that back... 7600!

 

[mbender]

I just looked, and the charger in front of where I work is a Chargepoint charger which is in the ev-charge.com card program, so I could get $1000 worth of free charge from that. This deal looks better all of the time.

A couple of notes:

• I believe you're referring to the ez-charge program (aka, "No charge to charge").
• If so, and unless there's been a change, Chargepoint does not offer free charging through it. i.e., the extent of their participation is that the ez-charge card can be used to activate their charging stations, but a transaction fee will still be billed to you (taken from a registered card or prepaid balance).

Hopefully this won't make the difference in your decision, and hopefully you can still find a free or inexpensive way to charge. Read the fine print or contact ez-charge by phone to get the details. Their site and FAQ is a bit vague, if not intentionally deceptive, on this small but important point.

ps. See also this post and the few below it (which I later came across). Apparently, Car Charging and 350 Green have dropped out of the "NCTC" program as well.

 

[leafdecision]

That's a bit of a bummer about Chargepoint not participating in that program. The charger at my office is a Chargepoint and I would definitely need to use it occasionally.

Question then: what kind of charge rate does an L2 charger have? I have read that 110V is 3-4 miles of range per hour. How much range per hour would an L2 charger give me? It is $1.00 per hour to use the charger, so unless I was getting 8-10 miles/hour out of that, my gasoline car would be cheaper.

 

[leafdecision]

I just went and looked at the ez-charge website. I can't find *any* indication on there that Chargepoint is no longer part of the "no-charge-to-charge" program. The only other network on the website that is in Colorado is nrg EVgo, with a grand total of seven chargers in CO, although a couple are within a mile or two of where I work.

In probing around the Nissan website and the ez-charge website, it looks like the EVgo chargers are still in the program. If they dropped out, there would be no benefit to the card in CO. As it is, the cards can't possibly be getting much use. There isn't even a station in Denver proper that is on the NCTG program.

Not a deal killer, but a bummer.

 

[adriaanm]

Based on the emails in my inbox, only the ChargePoint stations operated by CarCharging and 350Green are no longer participating in NCTC:

Please be advised that CarCharging's and 350Green's ChargePoint Electric Vehicle charging stations are no longer participating in Nissan's No Charge to Charge ("NCTC") program. Therefore, we are no longer able to provide free charging at these stations.

To locate participating stations in NCTC, please visit the EZ Charge website. We apologize for any inconvenience that this may have caused.