BLOOMBERG: Nissan Aggravates Customers Attempting to Turn CE

[LEAFfan]

If Nissan had just come out a long time ago and spelled out all the factors that determine when everyone gets their car, this whole issue could be a lot more palatable. If people understand the process I believe they are more likely to accept the results. In my case, I'm not sure why we got ours (#404) on March 8th. Here are some possible reasons.
First, we started tracking the LEAF about two years ago when it was first on the internet. We signed up immediately to be on their emailing list. Then, we RSVP'd to view the prototype in December, 2009 in Phoenix. They had us on their list and gave us LEAF "T" shirts when we viewed the prototype. Next, we put our $99 down on the afternoon of April 20, 2010. Then, we ordered the car without ever driving one on September 30, 2010. An unusual thing happened when we ordered the car, even though we always wanted to lease the car, the order was put in as a purchase I'm told because of some computer glitch. Also, the car we ordered was an SL without the QC port and was Ocean Blue. Next, we went the charging route proscribed by Nissan and had the AeroVironment charger installed on November 20, 2010. We signed up on the dashboard and test drove the LEAF on December 4, 2010. We were invited and attended the arrival of the first LEAF in AZ in December, 2010. Finally we took delivery on the car, as a lease, on March 8, 2011.
I list all of that for those of you that have been bounced around as a possible comparison. As you can see we were very avid about getting a LEAF. I have no idea if any of that made a difference but it may be useful as a point of comparison.

Actually, I did all that and more and still had to wait an extra 3 months. I even signed up for the EV Project as soon as the article hit the newspaper which was in 2009. If everything had gone according to hoyle, I would have had mine in February or March too. But I have to admit that I was thrilled and surprised when Brendan said he would divert it here with the same deal instead of to WA . It probably would have been July before it came by way of WA. So FilmMixer, I'm wondering why the you didn't email Brian Carolin or Brendan Jones for help.

 

[thankyouOB]

LEAFFAN
glad to see you are with your car now.
best

and I fully agree with Davewill's comments below.

 

[davewill]

the other sad thing is that Nissan could have just avoided all this by selling the Leaf just like any other car it sells, with the exception that each dealership would have to be trained/prepared for it.

If they had, I can practically guarantee I wouldn't own one. If I had had to fight with dealers to even get MSRP, and had to put up with them leapfrogging people who were willing to pay more, trying to sell me what they had instead of what I wanted, and garbage like that, I'd have simply had to wait until (and if) the car became plentiful. That's why I didn't get a Gen2 Prius until almost the end of 2005. Even then, I ended up with a black car, and have always regretted it. This time I got exactly what I wanted, and all I had to do was get in line. Much better.

 

[smkettner]

Here are some interesting pieces ...

The first Leaf buyers, who Jones described as more affluent and tech-savvy than typical Nissan customers, require special handling. One Californian on the waiting list was so anxious about his order that “he even got a helicopter to fly over the port to see how many Leafs had arrived,” Jones said in a telephone interview on June 3.

We don't need special handling. Just deliver the cars within 30 days of the order sequence. When the Sep 8 order is unfilled no Leaf should be delivered to those after Oct 8. This should fall well within the normal boundries of batch manufacturing. It is not like there is a bunch of different factory options and configurations. JMHO.

 

[TomT]

+10!

If they had, I can practically guarantee I wouldn't own one. If I had had to fight with dealers to even get MSRP, and had to put up with them leapfrogging people who were willing to pay more, trying to sell me what they had instead of what I wanted, and garbage like that, I'd have simply had to wait until (and if) the car became plentiful. That's why I didn't get a Gen2 Prius until almost the end of 2005. Even then, I ended up with a black car, and have always regretted it. This time I got exactly what I wanted, and all I had to do was get in line. Much better.

 

[Beachcliffs]

We don't need special handling. Just deliver the cars within 30 days of the order sequence. When the Sep 8 order is unfilled no Leaf should be delivered to those after Oct 8. This should fall well within the normal boundries of batch manufacturing. It is not like there is a bunch of different factory options and configurations. JMHO.

+1 (also, no reason to be attacking Mixer; Nissan's should place a much higher priority on rectifying any remaining "lost" orders from 2010).

 

[evnow]

If Nissan had just come out a long time ago and spelled out all the factors that determine when everyone gets their car, this whole issue could be a lot more palatable. If people understand the process I believe they are more likely to accept the results.

Well, Nissan had a FIFO policy. But someone (or a team that delivered the software) messed up the implementation. Nissan is apparently trying to correct that now - but obviously it can't be done overnight given the production capacity and disruptions to it ...

 

[SkiTundra]

Most journalists (outside of politics) try to be fair in their reporting. However, unless you're following a story everyday for some time, you are likely to get some things wrong. There's simply no way around it.

Some people quoted in articles do come through 'connections', but even most of these are distant, like filmmixer, and most contacts are actually random and the result of the journalist making a lot of calls to get to the right people. A friend and I spend every morning in a cafe somewhere working on our laptops - and listening to all of the loud talking around us. Amazing what you hear (and gobs of fun when one of us goes over, introduces ourselves, says what we overheard, and ask them if we can ask some questions - 'oh sh**' being the usual reply.)

IMO, nobody on here who has received delivery or has not ordered has any business criticizing those who have been screwed by Nissan's order process.

Personally I think the plan for the order process was a good one and if it had functioned would be much better than a typical dealer process. But Nissan screwed it up and then screwed up on doing anything about it and screwed up on communicating. The little bakery in St Andrews who delivers cakes as 'love from home' does a better job - and their ordering/management system was written by undergraduates.

 

[LakeLeaf]

Here are some interesting pieces ...

The first Leaf buyers, who Jones described as more affluent and tech-savvy than typical Nissan customers, require special handling. One Californian on the waiting list was so anxious about his order that “he even got a helicopter to fly over the port to see how many Leafs had arrived,” Jones said in a telephone interview on June 3.

That's not completely accurate. Our MNL'er piloted the helicopter himself.

No special handling needed there - he handled the situation quite well himself without any help from Nissan :lol:

I can only imagine the conversations in Jones's office when someone showed him the port pictures from 1000 feet. Hopefully we was able to put a big blowup of the print on his office wall.

 

[davewill]

The first Leaf buyers, who Jones described as more affluent and tech-savvy than typical Nissan customers, require special handling. One Californian on the waiting list was so anxious about his order that “he even got a helicopter to fly over the port to see how many Leafs had arrived,” Jones said in a telephone interview on June 3.

That's not completely accurate. Our MNL'er piloted the helicopter himself...

Ah, the ambiguity of the English language. You can easily read that sentence as he got the helicopter so he could fly it over the port.

 

[ElectricVehicle]

Yeah, the helicopter had less lead time from resservation to delivery than the LEAF!!!! :lol: :lol:

My sympathies to those early orders still waiting for their LEAFs. While the CA rebate was never guaranteed, a loss of $2,500 dollars for missing the $5,000 CA rebate and getting put in queue for the next cycle's $2,500 rebate is no small matter. People who think it is a small matter and already got their cars, will of course happily give the extra $2,500 they got from the good luck of having their order accelerated to those that got woefully delayed! :shock: There are many who have gotten their cars earlier than expected and got the $2,500 more worth of rebate and they appreciate their good luck and they don't put down those who had long delays. So the negativity you got in this thread FilmMixer doesn't reflect the LEAF community at large, or at least most that I've met in person.

One minor consolation - The $5,000 rebates are gone before the Ford Focus EV or Tesla Model S is even available. I don't know how much of the $2,500 will even be available by the time those come to market. The first generation Volt doesn't meet all the emissions criteria to be eligible for the rebate. The ordering sequencing mix ups have personally affected numerous people to the tune of $2,500, possible more with other factors (like counting on the window and selling the current car before taking delivery.. Oopss..). On the other hand, you have to congratulate Nissan in some ways for actually producing enough EVs in under 1 year to exhaust the CA rebates! Nissan's can do attitude in getting EVs out is a refreshing change from the resistance and dedication to making the mass market fail that car manufacturers had in the year 2000 era EVs.

I also appreciate that we are not getting the negative EV press articles from the car manufacturers which in the years before 2000 were using the press to undermine and kill the market for EVs with misleading and close to or actually falsified facts and data.

 

[ERG4ALL]

I also appreciate that we are not getting the negative EV press articles from the car manufacturers which in the years before 2000 were using the press to undermine and kill the market for EVs with misleading and close to or actually falsified facts and data.

I can think of two out and out screwing with the facts to denigrate the LEAF. The first example was earlier this year when an article came out and indicated that the demand for LEAFs showed it wasn't very popular. It used as its evidence that Nissan had only sold 167 LEAFs in February. Of course we all know that Nissan was only able to manufacture and ship to the U.S. 167 units. Now that the tally is much higher there is no retracting or correcting the earlier article. If I'm not mistaken I believe that the article was comparing the LEAF to the Volt.

The second downright lie was by the Consumer Reports tester that said no one will save money with the LEAF because their electricity bill will double. As he said this on camera he did appear a little shifty. Like I've said before, "follow the money" and you'll probably find why that comment was made. We anticipate driving the LEAF 12,000 miles per year. Our off-peak TOU is $0.05/kWh. Even if your off-peak rate is $0.10/kWh, and you drive at even 4 mi/kWh (our rate is 4.6 with combined city and highway) that equates to 3,000 kWh/year. That, in turn, would be $300 per year. We've had electric utility bills in Phoenix as high as $360 IN ONE MONTH long before the LEAF was even thought of! Given our conditions with $0.05/kWh and 4.6 mi/kWh our cost per year would be $130 if we didn't have our PV system.

Thus, that is one of the reasons I'm taking advantage of every opportunity this summer to display the LEAF and talk to people who haven't been exposed to the truth about EVs and the LEAF.

 

[ElectricVehicle]

I also appreciate that we are not getting the negative EV press articles from the car manufacturers which in the years before 2000 were using the press to undermine and kill the market for EVs with misleading and close to or actually falsified facts and data.

I can think of two out and out screwing with the facts to denigrate the LEAF. The first example was earlier this year when an article came out and indicated that the demand for LEAFs showed it wasn't very popular. It used as its evidence that Nissan had only sold 167 LEAFs in February. Of course we all know that Nissan was only able to manufacture and ship to the U.S. 167 units. Now that the tally is much higher there is no retracting or correcting the earlier article. If I'm not mistaken I believe that the article was comparing the LEAF to the Volt.

The second downright lie was by the Consumer Reports tester that said no one will save money with the LEAF because their electricity bill will double. As he said this on camera he did appear a little shifty. Like I've said before, "follow the money" and you'll probably find why that comment was made. We anticipate driving the LEAF 12,000 miles per year. Our off-peak TOU is $0.05/kWh. Even if your off-peak rate is $0.10/kWh, and you drive at even 4 mi/kWh (our rate is 4.6 with combined city and highway) that equates to 3,000 kWh/year. That, in turn, would be $300 per year. We've had electric utility bills in Phoenix as high as $360 IN ONE MONTH long before the LEAF was even thought of! Given our conditions with $0.05/kWh and 4.6 mi/kWh our cost per year would be $130 if we didn't have our PV system.

Thus, that is one of the reasons I'm taking advantage of every opportunity this summer to display the LEAF and talk to people who haven't been exposed to the truth about EVs and the LEAF.

There will certainly be some negative press, but at least it's not Nissan producing the negative press releases, like auot makers did 10 years ago! And Consumer Reports, Well, 'Nuff said! (It's just too bad that the general public isn't aware that some of consumer reports work is good and other bits are fatally flawed or not applicable in many cases.)

 

[thankyouOB]

If I were doing Nissan crisis communication, I would tell them to put 500k up to cover the 200 CA Leaf owners who were the left behinds, and so lost their place in line for the full 5k rebate.

Or does anyone think it was more vehicles than that?

 

[jwatte]

They certainly jumped a bunch of vehicles around (mine included -- went back from June 17 to June 23 :-()
As for whether it matters that some customers are unhappy when others are happy, consider this:
You're about to buy your *next* car. There are, at that point, many fine cars in the marketplace.
* One company has 90% happy customers.
* Another company has 99% happy customers.
* The third company has 99.9% happy customers.
Which company would you want to buy from? How much is another "sigma" of happiness worth in dollars?
The difference between company 1 and 2 is only 9% of customers. The difference between 2 and 3 is only 0.9% of customers. But it actually affects *all* customers because they *all* have to worry about the probability of getting shafted.

 

[evnow]

Most journalists (outside of politics) try to be fair in their reporting.

EVs have no connection to politics ? Really, you expect us to believe that :lol:

IMO, nobody on here who has received delivery or has not ordered has any business criticizing those who have been screwed by Nissan's order process.

BS. We are critizing the way article was posted by OP. I don't consider them somekind of a holy cow who shouldn't be touched - irrespective of what they say or do. (BTW, even I had lots of problems with my order, just like OP).

 

[evnow]

The difference between company 1 and 2 is only 9% of customers. The difference between 2 and 3 is only 0.9% of customers. But it actually affects *all* customers because they *all* have to worry about the probability of getting shafted.

I guess people have different priorities.

Would you buy from
- A company that crushed EV1 and bad mouths EVs at every opportunity
- A company that has been dragging their feet on EVs & Plugins for years
- A company that routinely criticizes Lithium battery as not yet practicle
- A company that is not committed to EVs but just wants wants to have some presence, just in case
- A company that is completely committed and spening billions of dollars

 

[FilmMixer]

Actually, I did all that and more and still had to wait an extra 3 months. I even signed up for the EV Project as soon as the article hit the newspaper which was in 2009. If everything had gone according to hoyle, I would have had mine in February or March too. But I have to admit that I was thrilled and surprised when Brendan said he would divert it here with the same deal instead of to WA . It probably would have been July before it came by way of WA. So FilmMixer, I'm wondering why the you didn't email Brian Carolin or Brendan Jones for help.

I don't know who those two people are.

I've dealt with Nissan CS the entire time.... as of late, i.e. the last three months, they were of no help...

Even if I had spoke to someone higher up with Nissan NA, I would've spoke the the author of the article... we spoke twice on the phone (for over 2 hours total) and through various emails... although he highlighted my frustration, most of the conversation was about EV's, the trouble getting them to market, etc.. his is a great enthusiast, and know the Japanese auto industry very well.

As I said in an earlier post, his contacts with Nissan NA feigned ignorance that there were people like me in having issues... he had permission to forward any and all of my correspondences with his NNA contacts.. if he did, I do not know, and I was never contacted by them directly.

On another note, if you look back at my OP, I copied the first couple of paragraphs of the article... it's been my understanding that posting the entire contents of a link was bad net-iquitte....

I wasn't trying to "hide" the rest of the article, or highlight my section only... as I said, I didn't want to post the link and then come back later and explain the connection.

Damned if you do, damned if you don't....

I know most Leaf enthusiasts are great people, and can sympathize with my frustration (and in the end, it's only a car...)

It's just sad that some feel it proper to call me a gloater, or make snide remarks about me personally, without posting a counter point to the issues brought up by the article..

I imagine most of them already have their cars and aren't still waiting, and those that live in CA were beneficiaries of the rebate (and I don't qualify for EV Project / ETEC either....)

I think I have a right to be frustrated, and Bloomberg has a right to call out Nissan on how they are treating some of the customers who have put a lot of energy and enthusiasm into their efforts, only to have their experience be marred by incompetence in their ordering process and delivery...

 

[HIOJim]

...I think I have a right to be frustrated, and Bloomberg has a right to call out Nissan on how they are treating some of the customers who have put a lot of energy and enthusiasm into their efforts, only to have their experience be marred by incompetence in their ordering process and delivery...

As much as I hate to spoil a fanboi pile-on, from my perspective FilmMixer's experience is not unique and closely mirrors my own. The only difference is that he has not given up while I have.

Whatever their initial intent was, Nissan's delivery execution has for a significant number of customers has been abysmal. In my case they turned a Nissan advocate into a someone who will not only not purchase a Leaf but will never deal with the company again.

 

[Stoaty]

So FilmMixer, I'm wondering why the you didn't email Brian Carolin or Brendan Jones for help.

I don't know who those two people are.

If you want to seek a solution, rather than just complain, I would suggest searching the forum for one of those names and emailing them for help. Worked for me, and for several others on the forum.