Battery Replacement Program Details

[Valdemar]

The truth is nobody wanted to buy your Leaf even before this announcement. I want to know the details about their tiered payment structure. If it is going to cost slightly above $100 to drive 20,000miles/year it is not such a bad deal, for me anyway.

+1
Assume you mean $100/mo. On the surface it isn't horrible, but face it, that really does cut into any saving over a modest ICE now in a very measurable way. Not at all appealing to the people who bought on a (what I think is mistaken) notion this car, being an EV, was somehow going to last them the rest of their lives if they can just get a new battery every 10 years. The other wild card in Leaf ownership is all the other components, aside from the battery. If you're shelling out $100/mo then you get a bill to replace a $1000 LED headlight, or something in the controller, or who knows what, these cars could get to be a real screwing, and there just isn't the history to know. One thing you can be sure of, there are still plenty of parts that are just like and ICE car that will age just like an ICE car, e.g. CV joint boots, suspension bushings, struts, the list goes on. Cars have lots of rubber parts, seals, bushings, hoses and they all age. When these cars get to be 10 years old, most people with the means to buy new cars will be ready to move on if they haven't already.

$100/mo indeed. I've already learned my lesson and do not expect to save much if anything at all by driving an EV. But I want at least its TCO to be on par with a similar ICE vehicle. Money side of things being equal there are more things to enjoy in an EV than in ICE, given its range suits your needs. What I don't like about this new program is that it locks you in forever, with unknown prospects of being able to sell your own used car when you need to, even if still on the original battery.

 

[Deleted member 9549]

Hello Brian,
Just leased Leaf, we're loving it and think its a great car.

Looks like the discussion on this forum is getting pretty heated by some members. It would be nice if Nissan could step back and provide some level of comforting, reassuring words. Not sure if that is possible or what the motivation is behind not revealing a replacement battery price.

Essentially, I think people's concerns are that they want to know how to extend the life of their purchased vehicle. The battery lease does the opposite by giving up ownership of the most important part, the battery. This program, as announced, aggravates rather than relieves their concerns.

The obvious questions are:
- How much does a replacement battery cost given an exchange. Not sure what the concern is about giving a high number. At least people will bound it somehow. Maybe owning will prove to be financially unrealistic.
- How do you end the battery lease. Everything has an end. Seems as fundamental as how to start it.

There's another vein of discontent in this thread. It appears that people are driving their Leaf's farther than anticipated and they have insufficient range to accomplish their commute. There are several factors that are causing this:
- Originally advertised 100 mi range does not match common usage scenarios in the United States. 73mi range is closer but still sometimes overly optimistic for high speed highway travel.
- Accelerated battery capacity loss. The battery warranty kicking in at 30% loss is too severe a loss level for many.
- Effects of AC, heating and highway speeds reducing range well below the originally advertised 100 miles.

Doesn't seem like there's much that can be done to appease this second group other than generally being more transparent about what range someone can reasonably expect now and in the future. Tesla has an excellent website show the effects of speed and climate control on range.

I hope Nissan can clear this up. I'm following the EV industry very closely. Nissan seems to be in the leadership position along with Tesla. The Leaf is a wonderful car being leased at very affordable prices. I hope Nissan can maintain its first mover advantage and do well in the EV market and that this doesn't blow up to damage Nissan's reputation nor to give EVs a bad public perception.

Best regards

 

[leaf4me]

I have owned (not leased) my 2012 LEAF for 17 months now and have 9500 miles on it. I really like it, and it easily has the range that I need. Since my battery temp rarely exceeds 5 bars, and I only charge to 80%, I expect my battery to last quite a while. With that as background, I have to say that the new $100 battery rental program does not interest me at all, but since it is an additional option, it does not take anything away from the options that I previously had. Thus I am not upset by it.

I do still think we are owed information on the price to replace our battery packs when needed. And I hope the price decreases over time just as the price to replace a Prius battery pack has decreased over time. (An option of larger capacity packs would of course be very welcome!)

But looking at the larger picture, the rapid decline in resale value does concern me. I think the only way that I would feel better about that is if Nissan was willing to convert my purchase into a lease (at current or past lease rates). That would probably also address the battery life issues that owners may now have. My 2 cents.

 

[oscar]

how would you feel buying a replacement pack for $5,000 today knowing that in certain areas you will only have 75% of that capacity in 3 years and before paying that battery off on your 3 year payment plan at $150 a month, Nissan comes out with a battery with better chemistry that is expected to retain 90% of its capacity after 5 years in Phoenix and are selling it for $3,000?

I have to say we are not looking at the big picture here. I have been burned DOZENS of time by the march of technology. Man, I cannot tell you the depth of my love for RCA had they provided me something like this for my $900 28" CRT or my $350 DVD player or even my $199 NON SMARTPHONE!

but no! none of these companies provided me the option to pay a modest monthly price and still be able to get the latest technology. I paid the full price only to see something with twice the capability sell for 50 cents on the dollar...

another thing to keep in mind is that 3rd party vendors only exists because there is a market. If Nissan wont sell battery packs outright, someone will

In my situation (i.e. here in WA), I do not expect to buy a new battery, even 3 years from now. I think the current one will last a while and if I can buy a new one after 8 years (and trade in my old one) say at something around $5k or less net and drive another 8 years with it, I would call this a success.
If it had more capacity then the current one, even better.

I am not driving much around with the car to justify a $100/month cost AND I expect my batteries will last long enough so that financially it would make NO sense at all to pay $100/month to "rent" a battery.

While this deal might be OK for high mileage drivers in hot climates, it is most definitely NOT OK in the pacific northwest.


And for $35k (-tax credits), I find this toy to be too expensive to throw away and upgrade to a new one every 5 years.

+1
Nissan you can make history in next 6 months! The $100 monthly lease make no sense for people owning these cars. At this rate of $100 plus range issue, I'm going back to GAS. Sell us the battery pack! This way current and future owner trust Nissan will be there for their cars. Anything least I'm disappointed in Nissan!

 

[Valdemar]

+1
Nissan you can make history in next 6 months! The $100 monthly lease make no sense for people owning these cars. At this rate of $100 plus range issue, I'm going back to GAS. Sell us the battery pack!...

For $5,000? What if they told you the price was $12,000? Would you be celebrating?

 

[thankyouOB]

I am with fairwood fred.
Lets keep the battery replacement program alive.
I am not interested in the steal-my-battery substitue.

See the original thread.

 

[oscar]

+1
Nissan you can make history in next 6 months! The $100 monthly lease make no sense for people owning these cars. At this rate of $100 plus range issue, I'm going back to GAS. Sell us the battery pack!...

For $5000? What if they told you the price was $12,000? Would you be celebrating?

You missing the point. The $12K pack has a dollars number. The $100 monthly with no payoff amount plus my old battery pack is gone. Nissan just converted my cars I paid for $35k into a battery lease? You smoking Nissan......If this the case then buy my car back and I will lease your new Leaf. What the difference it a lease right? Otherwise sell me the battery pack!

 

[Valdemar]

+1
Nissan you can make history in next 6 months! The $100 monthly lease make no sense for people owning these cars. At this rate of $100 plus range issue, I'm going back to GAS. Sell us the battery pack!...

For $5000? What if they told you the price was $12,000? Would you be celebrating?

You missing the point. The $12K pack has a dollars number. The $100 monthly with no payoff amount plus my old battery pack is gone. Nissan just converted my cars I paid for $35k into a battery lease? You smoking Nissan......If this the case then buy my car back and I will lease your new Leaf. What the difference it a lease right? Otherwise sell me the battery pack!

Given the historical data on hand nobody expects the battery to last more than 10 years, even less in hot climates. $100/mo for 10 years is $12,000. Here is your dollars number.

 

[oscar]

You missing the point. The $12K pack has a dollars number. The $100 monthly with no payoff amount plus my old battery pack is gone. Nissan just converted my cars I paid for $35k into a battery lease? You smoking Nissan......If this the case then buy my car back and I will lease your new Leaf. What the difference it a lease right? Otherwise sell me the battery pack![/quote]

Given the historical data on hand nobody expects the battery to last more than 10 years, even less in hot climates. $100/mo for 10 years is $12,000. Here is your dollars number.[/quote]

To Bad you not Nissan worthless number. Show me the pack or just said you putting all current owner on a lease program. Inkjet program here we come...at least inkjet price fall over time. $100 monthly forever ouch!

 

[GregH]

+1
Nissan you can make history in next 6 months! The $100 monthly lease make no sense for people owning these cars. At this rate of $100 plus range issue, I'm going back to GAS. Sell us the battery pack!...

For $5,000? What if they told you the price was $12,000? Would you be celebrating?

Not long ago a friend of mine paid $15,000 for a new NiMH pack for his old RAV4-EV.
I'd bet in the next few years the cost of a new Leaf pack would be a LOT closer to $12k than $5k. Assuming this is the case, I think the $100/mo lease option is a fantastic deal! If I had a 5 year old car with 10 bars of capacity and was just fed up with the range, I could get a new pack for $100/mo for a few more years. If I thought I was only going to drive the car another 2 or 3 years (after the initial battery), why would I shell out $8k-$12k on a new pack for an old car? $2400-$3600 for 2-3 years sounds a lot better to me. Personally I think people here imagining new packs costing under $5k are living in fantasy land.

 

[kentuckyleaf]

Glad we are in a lease, and this is exactly why. We love the Leaf, but we are thinking an i3 with a range extender or the Caddy version of the Volt as a replacement. Hopefully Nissan will come out with a range extended EV and pamper the battery (with TMS even) so it lasts longer.

If this ends up being $100 a month, and covers the battery, and maybe it could include the charger & BMS in the car, MAYBE it isn't all that bad. You still don't pay for oil changes. On the other hand, I don't know how you sell the $100 a month battery rental to someone else, or to a non Nissan dealership. Even worse, a gutted battery less Leaf would have little value. I think it would be better to sell the Leaf to someone that doesn't require 9 bars of range (maybe after 4 or 5 years), and let them drive it until it doesn't work for them (maybe another 4 or 5 years), and then sell it to someone else that pays the rental fee and let them get the new battery. They can keep the Leaf until it doesn't work for them (maybe 4 or 5 more years) and then scrap the Leaf. If the last owner pays $5000 for the Leaf, and then pays $6000 to rent a battery, they are $11,000 into an EV for 5 years and can keep it running nearly forever. Not all that bad of a deal really, even for a beater car. This is why people think we are crazy for driving an electric car, because it costs more, and money is the only thing they care about. We didn't lease a Leaf because it was cheaper than an ICE.

 

[cwerdna]

I agree w/GregH's post and that $100/month ($1200/year) could see a lot more palatable than say $12K. One could spend $12K worth of payments and that'd be 10 years of battery lease/rental, but not all at once. And, in theory, due to inflation, paying $12K over 10 years ends up being less than paying $12K upfront.

The big problem is still resale value. If you had a Leaf w/a new battery and no obligation of $100/month payment to keep it going, that's worth a lot more than one w/the obligation. Nobody or almost nobody will buy w/a used car w/such obligation --> screwing the resale value.

Since there will be virtually no market, the owner of the car w/rented/leased battery will be forced to turn in the car to Nissan and accept essentially a low ball value. Nissan could then remove the obligation and resell the used car.

 

[Stoaty]

I'd bet in the next few years the cost of a new Leaf pack would be a LOT closer to $12k than $5k. Assuming this is the case, I think the $100/mo lease option is a fantastic deal!

If it is such a great deal, how can Nissan make money (or even break even) on this plan?

 

[kubel]

The ROI is not there for me to pay $100 a month forever to be guaranteed nothing better than 9 bars of capacity (remember, you only get a 12 bar battery once under the "plan")...

I'm in the same boat. If I can't determine the cost of replacement modules, I'm not going to be interested in renting them. Just throw out a number, Nissan.

 

[GregH]

I'd bet in the next few years the cost of a new Leaf pack would be a LOT closer to $12k than $5k. Assuming this is the case, I think the $100/mo lease option is a fantastic deal!

If it is such a great deal, how can Nissan make money (or even break even) on this plan?

How they make money on the leases right now baffles me.

 

[cwerdna]

I'd bet in the next few years the cost of a new Leaf pack would be a LOT closer to $12k than $5k. Assuming this is the case, I think the $100/mo lease option is a fantastic deal!

If it is such a great deal, how can Nissan make money (or even break even) on this plan?

Because they can recover cars/packs from people who turn in their leased battery Leafs and give them a lowball amount for their car. They could turn around and sell the used cars, removing the obligation, increasing their market value. They could also send the used cars to places where new Leafs are expensive and used ones are in demand (e.g. Norway).

Or, they could repurpose the packs for use as capacity warranty replacements, grid storage, etc.

 

[JPWhite]

How they make money on the leases right now baffles me.

Don't think they do.

 

[evnow]

In my situation (i.e. here in WA), I do not expect to buy a new battery, even 3 years from now. I think the current one will last a while and if I can buy a new one after 8 years (and trade in my old one) say at something around $5k or less net and drive another 8 years with it, I would call this a success.

If you want to buy a battery after 8 years, why do you care whether they announce a price now or not ? Check back after 7 years. I'm sure you will have plenty of options.

 

[evnow]

At this rate of $100 plus range issue, I'm going back to GAS. Sell us the battery pack! This way current and future owner trust Nissan will be there for their cars. Anything least I'm disappointed in Nissan!

I'm very disappointed in you, Oscar Apparently Saudi oil is dear to you.

Why do you want to know the price of the replacement battery pack now ? Are you planning to buy one now ?

ps : If you stop hyperventilating, may be people will take you more seriously.

 

[evnow]

The ROI is not there for me to pay $100 a month forever to be guaranteed nothing better than 9 bars of capacity (remember, you only get a 12 bar battery once under the "plan")...

There are obviously kinks in the plan to be worked out (how about a new battery once the old one goes below 70% ?).

But, the way to not look at it is by starting with a "forever" - since your car won't last forever. So, start putting some real term limits to your car (like total 10 years), then it will start making sense.