An aftermarket kit to improve charging to 6.6kW

[surfingslovak]

With a large quantity prices of my current design could easily get under $2k, but I just don't see that many people wanting this upgrade.

I would do it in a heartbeat, if I'm keeping the Leaf. The 3.3 kW charger was always one of my pet peeves. Even if the QC infrastructure improves, L2 stations are always going to vastly outnumber L3 sites.

 

[jpokoraw1]

Well, I JUST got the LEAF.. and don't get me wrong, I'm totally happy with it... but I didn't realize that there was a dramatic improvement in charging time on the horizon (in 2013).

To obtain this upgrade do I A) trade in the 2012 for a 2013? The difference in trade in vs. new may be well over $5k.

Or B) alter the car I have?

Or C) Tow the leaf with a 2nd car for road trips?

 

[TonyWilliams]

A) trade in the 2012 for a 2013? The difference in trade in vs. new may be well over $5k.

Oh, probably more than that. Plus, the 6.6 charger will be optional (which translates to more money).

B) alter the car I have?

Sure. Whatever estimate you get for that (currently one-off) mod, double it.

C) Tow the leaf with a 2nd car for road trips?

Yes, turned on in ECO mode. You'll have in charged up in no time.

 

[DANandNAN]

Ingineer,
Any chance of the charger being even faster than 6.6? Could you go 9.9 for not much more or would the jump be enormous? Now I'm thinking about a used Arizona Leaf with a 6.6 or 9.9 onboard

jpokoraw1,
If you decide to tow the Leaf, make sure you read about whether or not the drive wheels can be on the ground - they can't on the Volt and I have no idea on the Leaf.

 

[jpokoraw1]

A) trade in the 2012 for a 2013? The difference in trade in vs. new may be well over $5k.


C) Tow the leaf with a 2nd car for road trips?

Yes, turned on in ECO mode. You'll have in charged up in no time.

At first I thought you were being funny... but then I saw this:

http://www.wired.com/autopia/2011/05/video-crazy-genius-charges-an-ev-by-towing-it/" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

 

[jpokoraw1]

The thing is, I live in fort Bragg NC. QC are few and far between anywhere I want to go. Typically, I'll drive to wrightsville beach or myrtle beach on the weekends.. but a 6 hour recharge to reach my destination is a buzz kill. A 3 hour recharge would be fine and significantly increase the utility of the vehicle in my area. Therefore, the mod is worth it to me... and if it is a wire-cutting-free application, I think I could handle the installation.

 

[pchilds]

With a large quantity prices of my current design could easily get under $2k, but I just don't see that many people wanting this upgrade.

-Phil

I am in for $2k+, $5k forget it, how many is large quantity prices?

 

[JimSouCal]

With a large quantity prices of my current design could easily get under $2k, but I just don't see that many people wanting this upgrade.

-Phil

I am in for $2k+, $5k forget it, how many is large quantity prices?

Sounds like a "fantasy" group buy opportunity of the future... But yes, at 2K, surely count me in, if not, just for the fun of it. I mean, I put in leather seats, so why not a better charger?

 

[KevinSharpe]

Any chance of the charger being even faster than 6.6? Could you go 9.9 for not much more or would the jump be enormous? Now I'm thinking about a used Arizona Leaf with a 6.6 or 9.9 onboard

We have been thinking the same thing... in Europe 22kW and 43kW, 3 Phase AC Charging Stations in public locations are becoming the norm and cars like the Renault ZOE will benefit enormously from the availability of these low cost 'fast' Charging Stations.

It would be great to have a scalable charging solution that can cope with 1 or 3 Phase power and charge at anywhere between 10kW and 43kW depending on how much cash you wish to spend on the hardware (a 10kW modular system like the Tesla Model S maybe). I think the key to this is to avoid the CHAdeMO connector because it is very expensive. IMO any such charging modification will void the warranty so I don't think we should be concerned if we require different wiring looms to install this upgrade. I see this as very much aftermarket to extend the life of the Leaf once out of warranty.

 

[davewill]

... With a large quantity prices of my current design could easily get under $2k, but I just don't see that many people wanting this upgrade.

As nice as it would be, I'm forced to agree. If I really want 6.6kW badly it would make more sense to trade up to a 2013 or later model that has it. If Nissan hadn't already done it, that price would been attractive.

 

[Ingineer]

This of course can be done, but expect a 43kW system to cost a minimum of $20k plus and be prepared to lose your cargo capacity.

You are basically talking implementation of a DC QC system inside the Leaf! The present miniaturization leader in the QC space is the portable Andromeda Unit, to get an idea. You are basically looking at adding about 200lbs to the back of your Leaf, and pretty much consuming the entire cargo area. (about 9 cubic feet required) You'll probably also then want a suspension upgrade for another $1k.

I don't see this happening except in very low quantities for special purposes where cost isn't a concern.

Maybe 10kW is reasonable, 20kW would still be well over $10k and still eat a lot of space.

There's just not going to ever be economies of scale to make it affordable until a manufacturer builds it in to a high quantity vehicle.

-Phil

It would be great to have a scalable charging solution that can cope with 1 or 3 Phase power and charge at anywhere between 10kW and 43kW depending on how much cash you wish to spend on the hardware (a 10kW modular system like the Tesla Model S maybe). I think the key to this is to avoid the CHAdeMO connector because it is very expensive. IMO any such charging modification will void the warranty so I don't think we should be concerned if we require different wiring looms to install this upgrade. I see this as very much aftermarket to extend the life of the Leaf once out of warranty.

 

[Ingineer]

I can probably do a 10kW system with no intrusion into the interior, but it's not going to be cheap!

-Phil

 

[EricBayArea]

It sounds like this is just plug and play. I remember you saying some time ago that Nissan would never go for an upgrade like this because the current wiring harness couldn't hand 6.6kw of electricity safely. If that's the case, how did you get around your initial assumption on the wiring harness?

Additionally, without the LEAF Scan, do you / did you need to make changes to the LEAF's onboard systems to let it know to charge at 6.6kw?

For the record, at $2k I'd consider it if it were plug and play (which is what it sounds like). It would make the LEAF much easier for me to use it all day (by charging for one or two hours). Plus, it would make public charging rates a bit more palpable.

Nice job.

 

[KJD]

My car is indeed equipped with a prototype 6.6kW upgrade that works properly, and more than doubles the Leaf's charging speed (when used with a 32A capable EVSE). Unfortunately the problem is the cost of the components and installation makes this a very expensive upgrade. (in the $5k neighborhood)

With my present system there is no intrusion into the usable space of the Leaf, no holes drilled or wires cut, but of course it will likely be an excuse for Nissan to void your warranty. (Though it can be removed without any traces.)

I would love to have a 6.6 charger upgrade, however the 5k price might be reason for me to wait until sometime next year to consider a purchase.

At that time you will be competing with the 2013 LEAF and it sounds like they will also offer a better charger with a factory warranty. I would have to price it both ways, my WAG is that the 2013 car would still be way more expensive, but no one knows at this time.

For this year I still would really like to buy a LEAFSCAN so that I can keep track of the battery temps on my car. It really is a crime that Nissan did not include a digital readout on bar graph already in the car.

Keep up the cool product R&D Phil.

 

[Volusiano]

My solution is built-in, and only requires a 32A EVSE to fully use the improved speed, which are relatively common in public. (Blinks are only rated to 30A IIRC, so would charge a little slower)

With a large quantity prices of my current design could easily get under $2k, but I just don't see that many people wanting this upgrade.

-Phil

If L2 stations are ubiquitous (not even close to it at present time), and their charging cost are based on connection time only regardless of amperage drawn, and many people on the 3.3k charger have such considerable reduced battery capacity (due to heat or age) that they would need to fill up in the middle of their longer trips to meet range, then I can see Phil's 6.6K solution becoming more justifiable at $2K. But not at this time now.

But if Nissan makes the 6.6K charger an option on 2013 MY instead of standard, and let's say that option is much more than $2K, then the viability for this 3rd party option at less than $2K should increase all of a sudden.

 

[DANandNAN]

If I really want 6.6kW badly it would make more sense to trade up to a 2013 or later model that has it.

I think it's too early to say that trading in makes more sense than spending $2K on a plug-n-play 6.6 (or faster). For one, the 2013's aren't out. No pricing has been announced and finally, who knows how far trade in values will fall by the time the 2013's are available. A $2K 10kW ( ) upgrade and a reduced capacity 2011/12 Arizona Leaf will probably be a hot combo.

 

[TonyWilliams]

... With a large quantity prices of my current design could easily get under $2k, but I just don't see that many people wanting this upgrade.

As nice as it would be, I'm forced to agree. If I really want 6.6kW badly it would make more sense to trade up to a 2013 or later model that has it. If Nissan hadn't already done it, that price would been attractive.

Tesla is charging $1500 for the 20kW charger over the 10kW one (that is also on the Rav4). What do you think Nissan will do? Hint: they aren't going to give them away.

 

[jkirkebo]

I can probably do a 10kW system with no intrusion into the interior, but it's not going to be cheap!

-Phil

Tesla Model S customers might be a good source for cheap 10kW chargers ? The second charger is supposedly easily added later, so it should be easily removable too. Just offer people who don't want a second charger $2000 for one, they order it and save $500

Also their "superchargers" supposedly contain 9 of the 10kW units. But noone knows the cost of the beasts yet...

 

[DANandNAN]

If L2 stations are ubiquitous (not even close to it at present time)

LOL, you have tons of chargers in Phoenix ( http://www.recargo.com/search?search=Phoenix%2C+AZ&commit=+++SEARCH+++" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false; ).

 

[davewill]

... With a large quantity prices of my current design could easily get under $2k, but I just don't see that many people wanting this upgrade.

As nice as it would be, I'm forced to agree. If I really want 6.6kW badly it would make more sense to trade up to a 2013 or later model that has it. If Nissan hadn't already done it, that price would been attractive.

Tesla is charging $1500 for the 20kW charger over the 10kW one (that is also on the Rav4). What do you think Nissan will do? Hint: they aren't going to give them away.

I didn't think they would, but spending $2000 on an older car for a third party upgrade (that might make the questionable battery warranty even more problematic) when I can upgrade to a non-first year car that has it as a factory option is a tough sell. I already said I thought the price was acceptable otherwise. If the newer LEAFs don't look good from a price perspective, I'd probably be interested again.