Amateur (Ham) Radio in a Leaf

[adric22]

By the way, if these radios are for your local comms when you and the family Bug Out after TSHTF or when The End of the World as We Know it (TEWWKI) happens, you may wish to rethink your frequency choices. All of the common GMRS and FRS freqs will be jammed by New World Order forces and when unjammed

I wouldn't say that is their purpose. My survival kit is not a bug-out-bag. After all, how far am I really going to go in my Leaf? I put together a lot of emergency stuff in the event of natural disaster. We've had several bad weather events here in the Dallas/Ft.Worth area over the past few decades that have disabled electricity and communication. The most recent was about 10 years ago when the area was ravaged by tornadoes. Power was out, all cell-phone service was out, land-lines were out, etc. We've also had some pretty bad ice storms bad enough to keep people stranded on the road for 24 hours or more. Hopefully if I needed to contact somebody, the GMRS might reach somebody. Who knows. I thought about going with HAM but didn't really know enough about them and didn't want to go to the training and licensing process for something I might never use. But I figured if I could hit some of these repeaters, that would be the best choice for trying to contact somebody in an emergency. Or maybe it isn't me that will need help, maybe it will be somebody else and I am nearby and can offer assistance.

 

[TomT]

In a true emergency, all those repeaters will be down anyway... Ham radio is about all you would be able to rely on...

K6TGT

But I figured if I could hit some of these repeaters, that would be the best choice for trying to contact somebody in an emergency.

 

[CWO4Mann]

By the way, if these radios are for your local comms when you and the family Bug Out after TSHTF or when The End of the World as We Know it (TEWWKI) happens, you may wish to rethink your frequency choices. All of the common GMRS and FRS freqs will be jammed by New World Order forces and when unjammed

I wouldn't say that is their purpose. My survival kit is not a bug-out-bag. After all, how far am I really going to go in my Leaf? I put together a lot of emergency stuff in the event of natural disaster. We've had several bad weather events here in the Dallas/Ft.Worth area over the past few decades that have disabled electricity and communication. The most recent was about 10 years ago when the area was ravaged by tornadoes. Power was out, all cell-phone service was out, land-lines were out, etc. We've also had some pretty bad ice storms bad enough to keep people stranded on the road for 24 hours or more. Hopefully if I needed to contact somebody, the GMRS might reach somebody. Who knows. I thought about going with HAM but didn't really know enough about them and didn't want to go to the training and licensing process for something I might never use. But I figured if I could hit some of these repeaters, that would be the best choice for trying to contact somebody in an emergency. Or maybe it isn't me that will need help, maybe it will be somebody else and I am nearby and can offer assistance.

Good idea and a good plan! The last part of my post was my usual crazed humor. However, if you buy a good HT transceiver and program it for the Family Radio Channels, you will be doing a Samaritan service when TSHTF. Remember that most folks will not know WTF to do and grab that "fishing radio" they have when the cell phones and wired phones go out. You can talk to them and say the Lord's Prayer with them as the Dark Clouds Descend or go to them if they are trapped, etc. That is what we have at our local Ham Radio Emergency Services war room (although we can't call it a "war room" of course, and I was joking about the Lord's Prayer, naturally, since that's banned now too.). Remember also, that in a true Emergency the FCC rules are very lenient and as such, we are prepared to transmit with directional antennas and 100 watts of power on the FRS bands to contact Survivors.

Dave


Regards,

Dave

 

[CWO4Mann]

Any of you HAM guys want to give me a hand with a GMRS question? I bought some handheld GMRS radios to keep in my "survival bag" which I keep in the back of my Leaf. I bought these specific ones because they are supposed to work with GMRS repeaters. But I've had no luck. There is a repeater about 10 miles away. I set the channel and the correct tone on both of them. When I hit the transmit button on one, the other does nothing. A few days ago I drove closer to the repeater tower, probably 5 miles away. I tried again. This time I got a different result. When I transmit on one radio, the other one comes alive but there is just silence. When I let off the transmit key, both radios receive a beep from the repeater and one time I got a message in morse code. I thought I'd keep trying to reproduce it so I could record the code on my iPhone and later try to translate it, but never could get it to happen again.

Are your handhelds set up for duplex operation? Set to transmit on one frequency and receive on another? I believe GMrs repeaters work on a 5 mHz split.

Bill

For the past 2 decades, many transceivers have had the capability to split input/output repeater signal pairs into any configuration you want. That said, if I really wanted/needed to add GMRS bandwidth . . . . . again . . . . I'd just use any of several nice amateur transceivers . . . . many of which can be modded with a simple crushing of a diode. Several web sites will walk you thru that process.

.

Another possibility is the Puxing family of hand held transceivers. They are frequency agile in sets from 110Mhz through 475Mhz. You program with a Windoze application that comes with the radio. They are cheap and disposable too, about $100 if you look on eBay. 5 watts and will cover ANY frequency in the agility range. Remember that when you program one for the local police department, you best make sure that you program OUT the transmit capability or you will be toast.

 

[hill]

In a true emergency, all those repeaters will be down anyway... Ham radio is about all you would be able to rely on...

But I figured if I could hit some of these repeaters, that would be the best choice for trying to contact somebody in an emergency.

Turns on the emergency & its severity. Our intertied system on Santiago Peak (the Riverside -O.C. divide) uses linking repeaters to several other mountain top repeaters from the mexican border to Frasier Peak. They're on backup generators. Presuming it's not a 9.5 earthquake, the generators will run for several hours. Then you're on your own.

 

[CWO4Mann]

In a true emergency, all those repeaters will be down anyway... Ham radio is about all you would be able to rely on...

But I figured if I could hit some of these repeaters, that would be the best choice for trying to contact somebody in an emergency.

Turns on the emergency & its severity. Our intertied system on Santiago Peak (the Riverside -O.C. divide) uses linking repeaters to several other mountain top repeaters from the mexican border to Frasier Peak. They're on backup generators. Presuming it's not a 9.5 earthquake, the generators will run for several hours. Then you're on your own.

Correct. In all but an ELE (Extinction Level Event) or The End of the World as We Know it, Ham radio will be viable for both long range and short range communications. However, remember that it will be (by necessity) rationed due to the scarcity of surviving Hams and the number of survivors who must communicate. Even really major disasters (Katrina, 9/11, the Missouri tornadoes, the Indonesia and the Anadaman Island tsunamis, Ham operators came through in the pinch. During Hurricane Luis in 1994, when several islands (the one on which I was working at the time) were literally wiped clean by 200 mph winds, hams came through by taking car batteries out of destroyed autos and using them to power HF and VHF radios. That is one thing I am liking about the Leaf, that I have all of my commo gear available to run from the Leaf; as long as I have access to a 110V/220V generator my Leaf and the gear will operate. At the end of the day the problem would be availability of gasoline, the condition of roads, and the amount of ammunition I have to deter the marauding gangs, thugs, hippies, zombies, wierdos and especially my ex-in-laws.

 

[stevewa]

I've had an FT-857D in my 2005 Escape Hybrid for most of its service life, with no RF related issues. The head unit is under the driver's seat (obviously no-go in the Leaf) and the ATAS-120 screwdriver HF and the Larsen 2/70 VHF/UHF antenna are both mounted on the hatch lid, one on each side. Remember the metal body panels are a pretty good shield keeping the RF out of the innards of the vehicle.

I have yet to install any sort of rig in the Leaf, for now I just take an HT, sometimes with a mag-mount if I want a little gain.

Considering that most modern vehicles use CAN bus signaling, I suspect the Leaf would handle it about as well as any other vehicle. Any reports of other modern cars having issues?

 

[adric22]

I bought a portable CB radio the other day. Unfortunately, I can't get any more range from it than I can from a little bubble-pack GMRS radio, however, at least I can hear other people having conversations, presumably several miles away in their vehicles or base stations. Which tends to suggest the CB is more widely used than GMRS.. Or maybe that is simply because the people using GMRS are just to weak for me to pick up the signal. Anyway, I ordered a telescoping antenna that claims to double the range of my handheld CB. I'm going to give it a try when it gets here. I'm also trying to pick out some sort of handheld HAM radios. When I get all of them, me and a friend are going to drive around town and try various terrains and compare all 3 types of radio (GMRS, CB, and HAM) and see what the real-world results are. I'm trying to pick out some areas where we have line of sight for 10 miles, but such places are difficult to find around here without being on top of a highway mixmaster or something.

 

[hill]

I bought a portable CB radio the other day. Unfortunately, I can't get any more range from it than I can from a little bubble-pack GMRS radio, however, at least I can hear other people having conversations, presumably several miles away in their vehicles or base stations. . . . . . . . . . . . snip

Just like some amateur operators, some CB operators transmit above legal power limits . . . . WAY above legal limits. It's likely you're hearing these peep's because they're transmitting at 100 watts. Due to the current sun spot cycle, the CB/11 meter bandwidth is bouncing extreamly well, just as 10 meter is.

.

 

[stevewa]

A typical handheld VHF amateur transceiver will put out 5w which is a lot more power than either GMRS or a hand held CB

This is probably a good time to remind everyone that there are licensing requirements for HAM and GMRS (as opposed to FRS) and the FCC has significant penalties for unlicensed use of bands which require one.

I bought a portable CB radio the other day. Unfortunately, I can't get any more range from it than I can from a little bubble-pack GMRS radio, however, at least I can hear other people having conversations, presumably several miles away in their vehicles or base stations. . . . . . . . . . . . snip

Just like some amateur operators, some CB operators transmit above legal power limits . . . . WAY above legal limits. It's likely you're hearing these peep's because they're transmitting at 100 watts. Due to the current sun spot cycle, the CB/11 meter bandwidth is bouncing extreamly well, just as 10 meter is.

.

 

[adric22]

Just a little update here. I have purchased a total of 4 amateur handheld radios. I bought the first pair off of ebay for about $50 each. They are Feidaxin FD-450A units and they only work on the UHF range from 430-470 Mhz. Since I did not have a HAM license, but did have a GMRS license I decided to program the 22 GMRS channels into these and test them. (Yes, I've heard this may technically be illegal, but I can't personally see anything wrong with it since I've set the radio to all of the correct settings for GMRS and I have a license.) So we took the radios out and tested them in some of the same places I tested the CB radios and the GMRS radios I bought at Wal-Mart that claimed "36 miles range." Here's what I discovered:

• Handheld CB radios - About a quarter of a mile most of the time, sometimes half of a mile at best.
• The GMRS radios from WalMart - About 1 mile under best conditions.
• The FD-450A's using GMRS frequencies - about 8 miles under best conditions.

So it became pretty obvious to me that even with cheap $50 amateur radios, the quality was much better. I decided to start studying for my HAM license. This weekend I went to the ham-fest in Plano, TX and saw these little guys for $50 a piece and couldn't help myself but to buy them:

These are just 2 watts, half the wattage of my Feidaxin radios. But they are dual-band supporting the 2 meter (144-148 mhz) band as well. Plus they are super small and can be recharged with USB. The Leaf has a USB port too! I honestly didn't think they'd do very well. But we tested them and got 8 miles out of them also! A friend of mine just got his HAM license and call sign so I let him try them out with a repeater and was able to clearly talk to people on it and the repeater was also at least 8 miles away. Unbelievable!

I'm scheduled to take my HAM test tomorrow evening. I've been taking the practice test online for 2 weeks now and I'm regularly make 90% or more. So I think I'm ready to take the test! I believe I'm going to keep the tiny little radio in the Leaf at all times as my emergency radio, plus I'm going to buy 2 more of them. One for the wife's car, one for my desk at work, and the other for home.

I'm also going to start work this weekend on mounting an 8-foot tall antenna on the peak of my house. Since my home is actually up on a hill, plus it has a pretty tall roof, I think my antenna will be pretty darned high. I should be able to talk with my handheld radios for quite some distance just in simplex mode.

Anyway, I'm about to join the world of HAM!

 

[TomT]

Good luck!

K6TGT

I'm scheduled to take my HAM test tomorrow evening.

 

[CWO4Mann]

I'm scheduled to take my HAM test tomorrow evening.
Anyway, I'm about to join the world of HAM!

Good Luck! I've been a Ham since 1955.

Dave

 

[tgrich]

Hi all,
Just checking in here. Just found this thread by way of one I just started today. http://www.mynissanleaf.com/viewtopic.php?f=37&t=9586" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false; If you have any ideas, let me know.

Tim
K6TW

 

[turbo2ltr]

I finally bought a radio. FT-857d and a cheap two-band mag mount antenna.....still up in the air if I will be installing it into the Leaf. But I revisited this thread to see what others had done...

 

[CWO4Mann]

I finally bought a radio. FT-857d and a cheap two-band mag mount antenna.....still up in the air if I will be installing it into the Leaf. But I revisited this thread to see what others had done...

As I said in my earlier posts, the hardest part is dropping the panels under the car and routing the conduit then putting the panels back up -- I don't have a lift, just jack stands. But my system is still working flawlessly including the APRS system. I hooked up a 40m whip to the existing stub (see photos) and worked a bunch of stations two weekends ago on 40m CW. I noticed that on key down on HF with 100 watts, the "other systems" bar graph on the Energy Use panel ticked up a little bit, but not more than a sliver. All of this was with the car at rest and air conditioning set to 68 degrees. I did notice that there is some slight desense on 2m from the 5-watt APRS transceiver when it beacons and I am on 146.520, but that is only when the APRS sends it's beacon, about every 5 minutes when the vehicle is at rest. 2M/70cm rig is an FT8800; HF rig was K3, APRS dedicated unit is an Argent Data Systems data transceiver/transponder.

73

Dave

 

[turbo2ltr]

Bumping this thread... I decided I will keep the FT-857 as the base station and occasionally put it in the jeep.

I already had a laptop mount installed in the jeep for a previous job that I rarely use anymore (actually I rarely use the jeep now that I have the leaf.. lol) so I figured why not utilize it. I made a little bracket that fits in the hole where the laptop "plate" normally goes. Works great. As an added bonus, while I was installing it, I found the face had a 3.5mm jack for headphones. I had never noticed that before. It just so happens I have an RF Modulator permanently installed that I used to connect to my laptop so the laptop sound would come over the car speakers. Well I can plug that into the headphone jack on the radio face now.

The radio itself just sits in the back seat footwell for now.

But anyway, I just bought a 2m handheld I will use in the Leaf. I have a mag mount dual band antenna, but thinking I want something else...not sure what yet.. I'd want to put it towards the back, but since the sharkfin is there, seems kinda unsymetrical to put the mag mount to the side.. lol.

 

[turbo2ltr]

Think I want something like this.

http://www.mfjenterprises.com/Product.php?productid=MFJ-1721" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

Small, discreet..RG-174..

 

[adric22]

Since this thread has come back alive, I realize I never actually posted the video I made regarding my tests. Here it is:

[youtube]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=v7j5VlKz2Bg[/youtube]

And a related video for anyone interested:

[youtube]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ptDFNMcY7Wk[/youtube]

 

[turbo2ltr]

Nice review. My friend had a pair of Puxing PX-777 plus radios and let me borrow one. I was impressed. The battery lasted nearly three days listening to the local repeaters and I could easily hit them no problem.I picked up a pair of them off ebay for $160 including remote speaker/mic. Plan to leave one in the leaf all the time.