Amateur (Ham) Radio in a Leaf

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hill said:
how far back to other amateur folks go?
I guess I'm a newbie compared to most! Got my tech license in 2005 as KE7ERX, quickly got my vanity call KU7PDX and upgraded to a general license in 2007.

I would love to be more active, however we don't have any club stations in the Portland area and I don't have the resources to put together my own station. However I always take my trusty Yaesu FT-60r HT on hikes or long outings! :D
 
brettcgb said:
I'd attach the inverter direct to the 12V battery. The "power outlet" in the cabin is good for only 10A (120W). Most inverters are about 80-90% efficient, so you'd be limited to about 100W AC.

Yes, this is exactly what I did for that very reason. I was using a 300W inverter, so I would have definitely popped a breaker since I was definitely drawing more than 100W.

To answer the other question, I got my license around '76, but have been playing with electronics since around 1970. I too had an intense period during which I was into VHF/UHF; the repeater in my bedroom with an autopatch made a great "home extension" line which kind of freaked out my parents when I would answer it even though I wasn't home. :lol:

I'm presently have setups for 80 - 10m, 2m, and 70cm which includes packet for all. I'm also in my city's ARES group as well as MARS which is also interesting. A 20 kWh battery just seemed too good to pass up in terms of emergency power... ;)
 
TomT said:
I installed it in the driver's side rear compartment where the tool kit is, tapped in to switched 12 volts there, and ran the antenna cables up inside the trim to the roof-line where they mag mount on the roof just forward.
Hey TomT: What 12 volt line did you tap into and how many amps is the fuse rated for?

I'm getting a cargo box and want to install a 2m/400 mobile unit. Hopefully I can find a good deal on a radio with a remotable head so I can leave the base in the back of the car...
 
I have a Yaesu FT8800R installed in my Leaf. The power is connected through a Bosch 30A relay directly to the battery through a 15A fuse. The relay is controlled by a wire connected to the acc at the side fuse block. This way the radio turns on when the car is turned on.

I mounted the control head to a metal plate cut to size in the opening between the USB and audio jacks. The plate is double sided taped down leaving no holes in my leased car.

The radio is bolted to the side of the partition divider in the organizer I purchased.

The antenna is mounted on the roof near the radio antenna. Further forward you run into the side curtain air bags and I did not want to mess with them. When I turn in the car I will plug the hole with an antenna 3/4 in hole plug. Roof mounts really work the best.
 
Well, I guess I'm gonna just end up running some 10 AWG wire from the battery, along the driver's side bottom, into the rear of the car. I did finally figure out that the 12 volt battery is a Group 51 size, and probably around 30-40 Ah at C/20.

What I'll probably do is install a SLA or other non-venting battery in the back as an auxiliary battery to be used when the car is powered off and to supplement when the car is turned on (via a battery isolator).
 
If you put a battery in the back match the types. In the police cars I work on the front battery is the normal liquid acid type and the rear is a gel type. We have constant problems with the rear battery.

Our gas dept also used dual batteries so the MDT does not run down the main. They are matched yellow batteries and we rarely see battery problems.
 
I've posted photos of my installation. It is pretty much self-explanatory.



2m/70cm Antenna on left; 2m APRS 1/4 wave with GPS Ant on right; HF Antenna Stub on Right lip

Power Meter in line with 12VDC supply to Power-Pole Buss

Yaesu FT8800 2m/70cm rig remoted w/fuse and Power-Pole buss (also individually fused)

12VDC cable with 40A fuses on both sides of DC; Positive connected to Battery Positive pole

#10 wire for main power line to rear of vehicle

GPS hockey puck antenna and 2m 1/4 antenna for APRS

Installation seen from Driver's Doorway

Complete install in cargo compartment

Microphone and laminated command cheat sheet

Goose Neck Mount bolted to passenger seat mount on floor

Negative 12VDC connection up front

HF mounting stub for "Buddy Pole" single band HF stick antenna with Diamond/Comet lip mount. TN HOV Sticker

2m/70cm mount - Lip mount Diamond/Coment Co. with 1/4 wave small antenna --- this can be unscrewed (NMO Mount) and replaced with 7/8 wave long dual-band whip

Power meter in line with 12vdc supply line

Argent Data Systems 5W APRS Data transceiver - frequency agile and can be reprogrammed on the fly for other 2m frequencies

Underside of Comet/Diamond lip mount showing trimmed flanges to provide clearance to close hatch cover



73
Dave
N4CVX
 
DarkStar said:
hill said:
how far back to other amateur folks go?
I guess I'm a newbie compared to most! Got my tech license in 2005 as KE7ERX, quickly got my vanity call KU7PDX and upgraded to a general license in 2007.

I would love to be more active, however we don't have any club stations in the Portland area . . . . . . . . . snip
Check out the winsystem (dot org) ... they have over 70 linked repeaters (RF &/or IRLP) and I often talk to folks in Portland:
444.025 (+) 77.0 the node into the system is maybe 20 or 25 miles NW of Portland at 2,226'. If you bring up the machine, you can ask about when/where they meet up. With full time linked repeaters around the world - there's always a breakfast - meet 'n greet going on not too far off. I'm on there most every morning around 4am here in so cal.
 
A CAUTION from a long-time, technical aware and LEAF aware HAM, a friend:
(for what it might be worth, I pass it on to you)

"... The first guy to try HF
high power in the Leaf is in for a rude awakening! The CAN busses are
unshielded, and HF RF will completely bias the protection diodes at the front
end of the [CAN] transceivers (line driver/receiver part) and nothing will get
through to the digital engine. My bet is that the car will just go dead
the
first time a 100W transmitter gets keyed-down to transmit into a rear-mounted
antenna (like the guy who said he has an SGC antenna tuner)..."
 
garygid said:
A CAUTION from a long-time, technical aware and LEAF aware HAM, a friend:
(for what it might be worth, I pass it on to you)

"... The first guy to try HF
high power in the Leaf is in for a rude awakening! The CAN busses are
unshielded, and HF RF will completely bias the protection diodes at the front
end of the [CAN] transceivers (line driver/receiver part) and nothing will get
through to the digital engine. My bet is that the car will just go dead
the
first time a 100W transmitter gets keyed-down to transmit into a rear-mounted
antenna (like the guy who said he has an SGC antenna tuner)..."


Whew! I'm glad you told me. I use a 10W multi-band HF transceiver and the whip antenna you see in my photos. It is used for WINLINK data on 40 meters. I've not seen any adverse effects, but the antenna is tuned specifically to one frequency and my output is 10 watts which is not key down. I'm not about to try high power HF on the LEaf and for that matter did have some reservations about my 50 watt UHF 70cm band FM transceiver (Yaesu FT-8800 dual band 2M & 70 cm) as I though it might effect the tire pressure system. No evidence of EMI or RFI from either E or H field re-radiation. I did move the ammo box of "Bug out when the **** Hits the Fan" survival kit to the other side of the trunk. Wouldn't want 5.56mm tracers flying around back there.

Dave
 
Why hf - but not uhf - vhf ... I mean, if I'm doing 100 watts pep at 440mhz ... or what about even 25 watts @ 900mhz - 1,200mhz ... that seems like it'd be just as potentially adverse on unshielded equipment. Similarly, if my beam is pushing 1,500 watts from 50' - 100' away from the leaf - but directionally facing the Leaf ... I duno ... it just seams like Nissan would have / should have provided for such contingencies. I don't suppose there ever going to be any specifics on those thresholds.
 
hill said:
Why hf - but not uhf - vhf ... I mean, if I'm doing 100 watts pep at 440mhz ... or what about even 25 watts @ 900mhz - 1,200mhz ... that seems like it'd be just as potentially adverse on unshielded equipment. Similarly, if my beam is pushing 1,500 watts from 50' - 100' away from the leaf - but directionally facing the Leaf ... I duno ... it just seams like Nissan would have / should have provided for such contingencies. I don't suppose there ever going to be any specifics on those thresholds.


I am pretty sure -- but not certain -- that Nissan has subjected the Leaf and guts to a lot of different Electromagnetic Compatibility testing. However I would guess that since Nissan didn't figure the Leaf to be a common carrier or law enforcement vehicle, they didn't do the EMC testing for RF in the near field to various Leaf innards. They may have this compatibility by default due to some other EMC design criteria.

Your example of 100 watts pep on frequencies from around 450Mhz and up don't reflect the actual level of RF radiation inside a particular spherical area around the emitter (antenna, mostly). Remember that PEP is "Plate Envelope Power" and does not mean the same as "key down" or continuous wave transmission. There are no modern transceivers which are advertised as "200 Watts on SSB" which would withstand continuous output transmitting.

I'm sure you know that the old time transmitters and transceivers which were designed for AM and CW and then, oh by the way, SSB, have power supplies and final amplifiers which will go key down for just about ever. But, compare the Collins KWM-1 which could run AM transmission for ever with a modern day solid state rig which may not even HAVE AM capability. Different strokes for different folks: The KWM-1 and similar rigs were designed for hams who did round-table AM rag chews -- key down maximum output for the full 10 minutes allowed by the FCC rules between station ID.

There are still some of those on 40 and 80 and 160 meters and to hear their signals is to hear a lovely complex and wide-band audio signal. I know one fellow who has a home brew amplifier for his AM rig and runs a full one thousand watts key down -- he has 813 tubes in the final amplifier (not 811's or 812's) -- and a power supply which must weigh 150 lbs.

When you look at a modern solid state transceiver, particularly as installed in a car or truck or boat or aircraft, grounding and bonding are essential. Otherwise, you will get RF burns from metal parts of the vehicle and electronics inside the vehicle will be toast, for the most part.

I always like the story of the Psychological Operations folks who flew ,missions over Vietnam. Their first attempt to operate a 1000 watt standard broadcasting station FM transmitter resulted in the aircraft "going dark" the moment the transmitting switch was flipped. Going Dark is also known as "oops!" unless you are in flight then it is time to earn your flight pay. Fortunately the a/c was on the ground but almost every piece of electronic gear, from the radar to the altimeter to the IFF to the pilot's relief tube had to be replaced.

With respect to the vehicle situation, especially the Leaf, I would be very careful about operating a transmitter in a frequency range of below 30Mhz and at a higher than 25 watt continuous carrier near the Leaf.

I am not sure of the RF field radiation at, say, 50 feet from a 6.5dB gain yagi running 1KW on HF and pointed over the Leaf. That might be an interesting calculation exercise, all things and variables considered. I know for sure that my 10 watts on 7.035 Mhz using a vertical whip antenna or a remoted NVIS antenna some feet away has not effected the Leaf; neither had the VHF/UHF radio operation at around 50 watts continuous (FM). But, remember, YMMV!

73 es GL

Dave
N4CVX
 
Considering that most modern vehicles use CAN bus signaling, I suspect the Leaf would handle it about as well as any other vehicle. Any reports of other modern cars having issues?
 
Any of you HAM guys want to give me a hand with a GMRS question? I bought some handheld GMRS radios to keep in my "survival bag" which I keep in the back of my Leaf. I bought these specific ones because they are supposed to work with GMRS repeaters. But I've had no luck. There is a repeater about 10 miles away. I set the channel and the correct tone on both of them. When I hit the transmit button on one, the other does nothing. A few days ago I drove closer to the repeater tower, probably 5 miles away. I tried again. This time I got a different result. When I transmit on one radio, the other one comes alive but there is just silence. When I let off the transmit key, both radios receive a beep from the repeater and one time I got a message in morse code. I thought I'd keep trying to reproduce it so I could record the code on my iPhone and later try to translate it, but never could get it to happen again.
 
adric22 said:
Any of you HAM guys want to give me a hand with a GMRS question? I bought some handheld GMRS radios to keep in my "survival bag" which I keep in the back of my Leaf. I bought these specific ones because they are supposed to work with GMRS repeaters. But I've had no luck. There is a repeater about 10 miles away. I set the channel and the correct tone on both of them. When I hit the transmit button on one, the other does nothing. A few days ago I drove closer to the repeater tower, probably 5 miles away. I tried again. This time I got a different result. When I transmit on one radio, the other one comes alive but there is just silence. When I let off the transmit key, both radios receive a beep from the repeater and one time I got a message in morse code. I thought I'd keep trying to reproduce it so I could record the code on my iPhone and later try to translate it, but never could get it to happen again.
Are your handhelds set up for duplex operation? Set to transmit on one frequency and receive on another? I believe GMrs repeaters work on a 5 mHz split.

Bill
 
adric22 said:
Any of you HAM guys want to give me a hand with a GMRS question? I bought some handheld GMRS radios to keep in my "survival bag" which I keep in the back of my Leaf. I bought these specific ones because they are supposed to work with GMRS repeaters. But I've had no luck. There is a repeater about 10 miles away. I set the channel and the correct tone on both of them. When I hit the transmit button on one, the other does nothing. A few days ago I drove closer to the repeater tower, probably 5 miles away. I tried again. This time I got a different result. When I transmit on one radio, the other one comes alive but there is just silence. When I let off the transmit key, both radios receive a beep from the repeater and one time I got a message in morse code. I thought I'd keep trying to reproduce it so I could record the code on my iPhone and later try to translate it, but never could get it to happen again.

Here is my dos Limpiras' worth:

GMRS and Family Radio Service radios which are channeled for repeater operation should be set up in firmware -- this is prevent folks from tinkering around and creating their own "private channels". It's possible that the repeater which you attempted to bring up and operate through has changed its PL Tone. The fact that you heard the Morse Code Identification -- Morse ID-- means one of two things, you hit the repeater and it keyed up for you or the repeater keyed itself in automatic ID mode just as you keyed your HT. To find "your" GMRS repeater, go to the FCC's GMRS web site -- there will be plenty of information there for you. By the way, if these radios are for your local comms when you and the family Bug Out after TSHTF or when The End of the World as We Know it (TEWWKI) happens, you may wish to rethink your frequency choices. All of the common GMRS and FRS freqs will be jammed by New World Order forces and when unjammed, be used to DF your location for the collection and transportation of Americans to the extermination camps. Likewise, if there is a severe EMP event caused by either a high altitude nuke blast or by a long-path grazing impact of a very large bolide (less than an ELE but like a Nordlinger Ries Bolide Event) most devices with microcircuitry will be fried anyway. I could digress and go on, but I have to finish my WikiPedia article on the emergence of the Large Greys and the Reptillian Overlords at Denver International Airport from underneath the Masonic Symbols in the Departure Lounge.
 
ebill3 said:
adric22 said:
Any of you HAM guys want to give me a hand with a GMRS question? I bought some handheld GMRS radios to keep in my "survival bag" which I keep in the back of my Leaf. I bought these specific ones because they are supposed to work with GMRS repeaters. But I've had no luck. There is a repeater about 10 miles away. I set the channel and the correct tone on both of them. When I hit the transmit button on one, the other does nothing. A few days ago I drove closer to the repeater tower, probably 5 miles away. I tried again. This time I got a different result. When I transmit on one radio, the other one comes alive but there is just silence. When I let off the transmit key, both radios receive a beep from the repeater and one time I got a message in morse code. I thought I'd keep trying to reproduce it so I could record the code on my iPhone and later try to translate it, but never could get it to happen again.
Are your handhelds set up for duplex operation? Set to transmit on one frequency and receive on another? I believe GMrs repeaters work on a 5 mHz split.

Bill
For the past 2 decades, many transceivers have had the capability to split input/output repeater signal pairs into any configuration you want. That said, if I really wanted/needed to add GMRS bandwidth . . . . . again . . . . I'd just use any of several nice amateur transceivers . . . . many of which can be modded with a simple crushing of a diode. Several web sites will walk you thru that process.

.
 
adric22 said:
Any of you HAM guys want to give me a hand with a GMRS question? I bought some handheld GMRS radios to keep in my "survival bag" which I keep in the back of my Leaf. I bought these specific ones because they are supposed to work with GMRS repeaters. But I've had no luck. There is a repeater about 10 miles away. I set the channel and the correct tone on both of them. When I hit the transmit button on one, the other does nothing. A few days ago I drove closer to the repeater tower, probably 5 miles away. I tried again. This time I got a different result. When I transmit on one radio, the other one comes alive but there is just silence. When I let off the transmit key, both radios receive a beep from the repeater and one time I got a message in morse code. I thought I'd keep trying to reproduce it so I could record the code on my iPhone and later try to translate it, but never could get it to happen again.
Sounds like the repeater owner isn't running very high power or doesn't have a good reception and is also having some sort of audio issue. I'd try contacting them. Once you figure out their callsign, search here: http://wireless2.fcc.gov/UlsApp/UlsSearch/searchLicense.jsp
 
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