80% Charge only 9 bars?

[smkettner]

Mine has been pretty solid on 9 bars on 80% charge both the month before I lost a capacity bar and since.
A few times I get ten and seems more with either dropping temperatures or with deeper discharge.
Hard to tell as many parameters are constantly fluctuating. Or possibly the bars are getting reset as another capacity bar will eventually be lost.
I still go 100% on weekends.

 

[ecoobsessive]

Since it's obviously cold, my advice is do a 100% charge, let it sit for at least 6 hours, and see if the pack does a "balance". I experienced the REVERSE: that is, after several weeks of 9 bars @80% charges, I finally did a 100% balance charge when temps cooled (received double "charge complete" messages) and--low and behold--got my 10 bars @80% back. Good luck.

I also got 10 bars on an 80% charge last night for the first time since last spring. It has been cool lately during the day and no sun (normally my car sits in the sun all week). So more 5 temp. bars lately rather than 6. I had done a 100% the day before, but it sat at 100% for less than 2 hours. The 10th bar did not last long at all, bars seemed to drop more quickly - since the battery was cold, not holding as much power. I HOPE it's not a reset/recalibration sign - that I'm about to lose capacity bar 11. I was hoping that would not come until next summer (wishful thinking....)

 

[LEAFer]

I used to get a lot of 9 bars, but with cooler temps, now 10 bars ... until this morning, which happened to be "Range Test Day" :x

All the data you could ever want: http://www.mynissanleaf.com/viewtopic.php?f=31&t=10653" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

 

[wishboneash]

I am seeing charging to 9 bars(@80% charge) due to the somewhat colder weather for last couple of days. Night temps are near 2C, but garage temps are around 10C. I still have 12 bars of capacity left, but the range has dropped 5 miles or so due to the colder temps. I may try to do an 80% charge right after a long drive to see if the warmer battery will take more charge and go back up to 10 bars.

Since it's obviously cold, my advice is do a 100% charge, let it sit for at least 6 hours, and see if the pack does a "balance". I experienced the REVERSE: that is, after several weeks of 9 bars @80% charges, I finally did a 100% balance charge when temps cooled (received double "charge complete" messages) and--low and behold--got my 10 bars @80% back. Good luck.

I did a 100% charge yesterday (all 12 bars lit up nicely) and let it sit 5 hours or more before my commute. Came home with 3 bars left and 24 miles left on the GOM with a 62 mile round trip commute. I have left the car without a charge today. Plan to charge it to 80% tonight and see how many bars it gets up to. The weather has warmed up to 10-15C due to the rains and cloud cover. Stay tuned.

 

[ttweed]

I am seeing charging to 9 bars(@80% charge) due to the somewhat colder weather for last couple of days. Night temps are near 2C, but garage temps are around 10C. I still have 12 bars of capacity left, but the range has dropped 5 miles or so due to the colder temps. I may try to do an 80% charge right after a long drive to see if the warmer battery will take more charge and go back up to 10 bars.

Interesting, in my case I haven't experienced 9 bars on 80% since temperatures dropped here a month or so ago. I was getting 9 bars 1 out of 4 charges during August/September heat.

Ditto here. After experiencing the 9 bar/80% phenomena in the summer heat, with battery temp gauge on 6 bars almost constantly, I am getting mostly all 10 bar/80% charges now in the cooler weather, with the battery at 5 temp bars. The 10th bar is very, very shallow, though. At the most, I have gotten 3.5 miles out of the 10th bar, and sometimes as little as .1 miles. I can turn it on, drive the car 25 feet out of the garage and shut it off, and when I turn it back on, the 10th bar is gone. Obviously, there is some recalculation that takes place simply when it goes through a power cycle, however brief.

I have just quit worrying about it and will wait to see how the degradation proceeds and how Nissan responds to the problem. We hit 23,000 miles this week and still have all 12 capacity bars, with only slightly diminished overall range (maybe 10%, but this is totally subjective, as we haven't done any rigorous range testing or GID measurement), so we are still quite happy with the car. It is totally meeting our needs and saving us a ton of $$$ in what would have been gas money. My wife used to get about 22-24mpg in her Miata, and is ecstatic that she hasn't been to a gas station in 20 months now. At the ~$4/gal average price for gas around here, 23,000 miles would have cost us $4,000, plus another $200 or so in oil changes. We have averaged about $30/month in electricity to run the Leaf that distance, or $600 total, with $0 in service costs, so if the battery does indeed last for 8 years with at least 50 miles of range left (which will still meet our needs), barring any major service costs, it will have paid for itself and I will be a happy camper. If a new battery costs anywhere south of $8K by that time, I would be happy to drop in a replacement pack and drive it another hundred thousand miles. The Miata did 200K miles on the original engine and would have cost $4K to rebuild.

TT

 

[edatoakrun]

I used to get a lot of 9 bars, but with cooler temps, now 10 bars ... until this morning...

After a warm night, perhaps?

Check out the summary of my posts on this thread below, from page 21 of this thread.

Higher temps caused the tenth bar to disappear and reappear on my LEAF, with no charging or significant discharging.

My car, with ~half the miles and (presumably) greater capacity than yours, then needed ~6 bars of temp to to drop the tenth capacity bar at "80%", and it has shown 10 bars at "80%"exclusively since Summer ended.

I expect that during the next few weeks of fall weather you probably could manipulate the 10th temp bar occurrence and disappearance by slightly heating or cooling your car while parked, even without any additional charge or significant discharge. If you do, please record the gid counts for these events.

On the afternoon of 9/6 my 6th temp bar appeared, but for the first time in a few weeks, the 10th charge bar did not disappear. And I have had 10 bars when charging to 80% and they all stayed there, even after the 6th temp bar came on (every day I checked) ever since. So I know that 9/10 bar display change point does not represent an actual fixed amount of kWh charge. I still don't know if the gid count is also non-representative of kWh charge, since no one with a gid meter (AFAIK) has looked at and posted their results.

My 9/1 summary on this thread below:


edatoakrun wrote:

My tenth capacity bar at "80%" charge continues to disappear, about the same time the 6th temperature bar appears, and vice versa.

As I asked on P 17 of this thread, it would be very useful for those with gid meters to report whether the gid count varied with temperature, like the 9/10 capacity bar does.

Quote:

The same "80%" charge level can show as 9 or 10 bars.

Apparently, the tenth bar disappears and reappears, as the battery temperature changes.

As I posted below on the "Gid sensitivity to temperature" thread:

"Has anyone with considerable variability in their daily ambient temperatures watched the gid count following a charge, while remaining parked, and neither charging nor discharging the battery, to see if the gid count changes (declines, presumably) as the ambient temperature warms during the day?

I've had my car parked at following a "80%" timer charge for a few days, with nighttime lows around 60 F, and daytime highs around 90 F.

The charge bars increase from 9 to 10 in the early morning, and decline back to 9 late in the afternoon, shortly after the battery temp bars increase from 5 to 6.

(8/28 edit- On the last test cycle, it went back up to 10 bars by one AM the next morning, completing a 10 bar to 9 bar to 10 bar cycle, without any charging or significant battery discharge.)

Just wondering if this charge bar variability by temperature, is reflecting gid count variability, or if something else is causing it.


viewtopic.php?f=30&t=9776&start=20


Until recently, I would have been pretty sure 9 bars at "80%" charge indicated my battery had loss of capacity of ~10%.

But recent range tests, which seem to show no loss of range in my LEAF over the last 12 months, might indicate otherwise.


viewtopic.php?f=31&t=9064&start=20

 

[ELROY]

I also got 9 bars a couple of times also, while using the 80% timer charge. The car is about 3 wks old now...so probably nothing faulty. Have never quick charged. Only use the trickle charger.

 

[mkjayakumar]

TT,

Looking at your numbers, when you hit 100K miles you might have saved around $12K, with an available range of about 50 miles on a full charge. An equivalent ICE would have depreciated 50% on resale value over 100K miles.

So for $35K Leaf, similar calculations would be:

50% depreciation ($17.5K) + Tax credit ($7.5k) + Gas savings ($12k) = $37K.

So you would actually be coming ahead even if you could slap in a new battery for $10K and sell the Leaf for $15K.

 

[ELROY]

TT,

Looking at your numbers, when you hit 100K miles you might have saved around $12K, with an available range of about 50 miles on a full charge. An equivalent ICE would have depreciated 50% on resale value over 100K miles.

So for $35K Leaf, similar calculations would be:

50% depreciation ($17.5K) + Tax credit ($7.5k) + Gas savings ($12k) = $37K.

So you would actually be coming ahead even if you could slap in a new battery for $10K and sell the Leaf for $15K.

In the Wikipedia article, they said the LEAF battery cost is rumored to be $18000 !!

 

[shay]

TT,

Looking at your numbers, when you hit 100K miles you might have saved around $12K, with an available range of about 50 miles on a full charge. An equivalent ICE would have depreciated 50% on resale value over 100K miles.

So for $35K Leaf, similar calculations would be:

50% depreciation ($17.5K) + Tax credit ($7.5k) + Gas savings ($12k) = $37K.

So you would actually be coming ahead even if you could slap in a new battery for $10K and sell the Leaf for $15K.

The capacity should be much higher for the replacement battery.

 

[RegGuheert]

I also got 9 bars a couple of times also, while using the 80% timer charge. The car is about 3 wks old now...

That's really surprising for a new LEAF! I don't recall that happening to anyone else. Perhaps I missed it?

 

[Weatherman]

I saw the same thing with my first LEAF, after only about two months and 2,000 miles of Florida winter driving. At the time, I just dismissed the 9-bar, 80% charge as a curiosity. A couple of charges to 100% and the phenomenon was gone until it reappeared later on in the spring.

Of course, that same car either started out with less than "nominal" usable battery capacity, or, if you go with the assumption that all LEAFs come off the assembly line with 21kWh usable, then it lost about 8% of its usable battery capacity in the first three, winter months. So, who knows what screwy things were going on with it?

 

[ttweed]

50% depreciation ($17.5K) + Tax credit ($7.5k) + Gas savings ($12k) = $37K.

I also got a $5,000 rebate check in the mail from the state of CA after I bought the car, so the numbers are even better than that.

TT

 

[ttweed]

In the Wikipedia article, they said the LEAF battery cost is rumored to be $18000 !!

There have also been rumors that it is $5000, but nobody knows and nissan has refused to talk specifics yet. I don't really care what it is now, though, what I want to see is what it is in 6.3 more years, when the warranty runs out on my car. Hopefully, there will be higher capacity replacements available at much less than the current $$$/kWH, but nobody knows for sure what the future will bring.

TT

 

[mazdaboi]

Happens to me sometimes. Really dont pay that much attention. I keep the car timer at 80% every day of the week and before I goto bed i manually override to 100% . 5 of 7 days during the week im charging to 100% (only sits at 100% for 3-4hrs at night before my trip in the AM) Car is LEASED, so im not worrying about the battery degrading. I need the full charge for my commute (at least 85-90%) as my commute is 68miles on a single charge.

Really interested after this first year goes by to see what the battery life is with my charging schedule/history. Heck I just drive the thing..and drive the piss out of it at that. Love it!

 

[wishboneash]

I am seeing charging to 9 bars(@80% charge) due to the somewhat colder weather for last couple of days. Night temps are near 2C, but garage temps are around 10C. I still have 12 bars of capacity left, but the range has dropped 5 miles or so due to the colder temps. I may try to do an 80% charge right after a long drive to see if the warmer battery will take more charge and go back up to 10 bars.

Since it's obviously cold, my advice is do a 100% charge, let it sit for at least 6 hours, and see if the pack does a "balance". I experienced the REVERSE: that is, after several weeks of 9 bars @80% charges, I finally did a 100% balance charge when temps cooled (received double "charge complete" messages) and--low and behold--got my 10 bars @80% back. Good luck.

I did a 100% charge yesterday (all 12 bars lit up nicely) and let it sit 5 hours or more before my commute. Came home with 3 bars left and 24 miles left on the GOM with a 62 mile round trip commute. I have left the car without a charge today. Plan to charge it to 80% tonight and see how many bars it gets up to. The weather has warmed up to 10-15C due to the rains and cloud cover. Stay tuned.

This morning with an 80% charge I got my 10th bar back. I got 4.0 miles on the 10th bar at 55 mph. All is well.

 

[kubel]

Typically have been waking up to an 80% charge with 9 bars ever since winter hit. Woke up to an 80% charge at 11 bars this morning. :?:

Temps dropped a lot overnight, 13F by the time I left at around 10AM. Two battery temp bars when I left. Got to three just before getting to work.

Not sure if battery heater had anything to do with it, but I didn't change charge timer, nor did I override it. I remember reading that the battery heater enables at around 14F, but only if not plugged in. Anyone know if the car will charge when temps drop below a certain point? If so, I wonder if the car overrode the timer to prevent freezing. I'm confused.

 

[Stanton]

I can't imagine how the COLD would trigger the "9 bars @80%" phenomenon; based on personal experience it's something that the HEAT would trigger, and an early sign of battery aging. 2 TB's is pretty low, so I'm sure there was some "self-heating" going on while driving that brought you up to 3 TB's; I think the battery heater kicks in at much lower temps (like below 0). The "11 bars @80%" thing was probably a fluke (maybe even triggered by the extreme cold).

 

[Herm]

I thought the Leaf constantly recalibrated the fuel bars relative to the capacity remaining in the battery.. after 10 years the 9-10 bar will still light up at an 80% charge even if the car has only enough remaining capacity to go a couple of blocks.

 

[eclecticflower]

I've been noticing this with my car, too, in the last couple of weeks. It's 6 months old and has a little over 4000 miles on it. I have been getting 9 bars on an 80% charge, here and there. :? I've been chalking it up to the cold weather in Kansas City.

For grins, I requested a status update from LEAFlink before I left this morning, just to check. The response came back as charged to 10 bars. OK, good. I then left for work and did not pay attention to the dash. At about a quarter mile down the road, I looked at the bars and there were only 9. Maybe it dropped that quickly? Or LEAFlink was fibbing? Good thing my commute is well within 9 bars of range. This has been a little disconcerting, though. It might be time to play "balance the cells" with overriding the timer for a bit more juice OR set Timer #2 to 100% on one weekend day....

Kathy