$450 bill from NRG / eVgo

[mjblazin]

Charging stations for Tesla are the same as coffee and donuts at the dealer waiting room. Just because the dealers offer the items to customer does not mean they are in DunkinDonuts' business.

 

[linkim]

BTW - Sorry, this subtopic probably belongs somewhere other than NRG's $450 bill. I didn't mean to hijack the thread.

And regarding Costco, their industry is to provide products and services on a wholesale basis to subscribing members. Fuel is just one of those products/services. That would only be a relevant comparison if they took the stance that you can't be a member if you own a Ford or if you ever shop at a Walmart. Anyone who wants to shop at Costco can for a small fee. If Tesla will make their service stations open to anyone who needs the electrons on a membership basis, similar to what Chargepoint, Blink or NRG do, then I'm fine with that. Otherwise, they are operating service stations in the service station industry but doing so in a fashion that either seems like dumping or shifting the profits to another operating division and thereby possibly engaging in state income tax evasion. I think that if shareholders think about these aspects, you might get enough votes to draw the attention of the Board.

I think this thread has been hijacked by some of this discussion, and I am one of the guilty parties.

 

[user 10599]

Concur regarding hijacking. This will be last of my post on this subtopic due to thread hijack.

Again, just like Costco, the argument that a service can be legitimately provided along other services is not a relevant comparison. These are purpose built service stations in the service station industry. I have no objection to a dealer restricting the chargers at their lot to their brand. Otherwise, competing brands could park their products at other dealers so someone thinking about an EV at brand A's lot will be reminded that brand B also has an EV for sale. I could also point out that the moon appears to shine brightest at night, but that isn't relevant to this discussion. These attempts at analogy have already been presented and addressed. The point stands these are 3 distinct industries and to ignore that is foolhardy if for no reason other than the taxation issue. But as pointed out, there are other disadvantages to putting their head in the sand and not realizing this is an industry.

The pro for Tesla is the extra profit they can make in their car sales. And to be honest, I doubt the supercharger network is what is really driving Tesla sales. Yes, there is data indicating Tesla buyers are willing to pay extra when they buy the car for this feature. But most of these buyers aren't price sensitive. If Tesla wants to be more than a chic niche in EVs, they need to get to a lower entry point. And they need the general public to overcome range anxiety. Single brand only infrastructures is not the way to do that.

 

[BlackFeuille]

And to swing this thread BACK on topic...

Today I had to call again to fix a billing issue. Even though I had already pointed out an issue with their recorded "data", I received a bill for both a 9 hour and 17 hour L2 charge. So another call (20 minutes) to get it fixed.

I had connected to one station, but couldn't charge. So I connected to the next station over and charged successfully. Meanwhile, the first station is still billing, and billing... a total 9 hours of "charging". Then shortly after midnight, the billing restarts at that same first station for an additional 17 hours! Ouch!

I pointed out to the NRG / eVgo agent (He was very pleasant.) that when given the choice between a charging station company that I have to call every month concerning billing errors versus one with higher but always correct billing, I'd rather knowingly spend a bit more money and save the time (and hassle) of calling. He seemed to understand.

I really do want NRG / eVgo to be successful. We need the infrastructure. And their pricing is better.

P.S. I wonder if they've noticed that I haven't used them at all from the moment I starting having billing problems? Hmmm?

 

[DesertSprings]

I really wish we had some insiders leaking what is going on at eVgo. Just seems so weird that they still haven't fixed their billing system and website. These should be easy fixes and I wonder what the internal politics is that is preventing them from solving it.

 

[cwerdna]

Just seems so weird that they still haven't fixed their billing system and website. These should be easy fixes and I wonder what the internal politics is that is preventing them from solving it.

Without knowing anything about their systems, the fixes may NOT be easy and may take some time.

For all we know, their systems might be very poorly architected, written w/poor or no documentation, spaghetti code, etc. And, the original folks who wrote it might be no longer w/the company, possibly even contractors (who could've been done, fired, be working somewhere else, etc.) Or, it could've been done by a vendor who doesn't care or where they don't want to reengage anyway.

And these issues might be very intermittent or hard to repro, making investigation and fixing even harder vs. a 100% (or near 100%) repro bug.

 

[user 10599]

Without knowing anything about their systems, the fixes may NOT be easy and may take some time.

Having spent years as both an accounting and IT auditor, it is amazing how much can go wrong in a system. And it may be some time before the problems are realized to exist. And then the diagnosis can take a while. By the time a fix is made, there is a ton of bad data, e.g., customer account details and balances, that must be addressed. How they go about addressing that situation can play a major role in whether they win acceptance from current and future customers.

One solution is to hire an army of temps to pour through the records and correct customer accounts or handle the flood of customer calls and fix them as each customer complains. Unless they pay through the nose for these temps, they are not likely to get much competence and could make matters worse and alienate their customers.

Another solution that would cost a lot less would be to write-off the existing balances as doubtful (not because their customers are deadbeats, but because the balances apparently aren't valid.) This approach probably won't cost that much in lost revenue, but will save a ton in extra analysis and payroll plus avoids angering the early adopters who can sink the company if they botch it. They've been charging for their service for less than a year. The additional revenue associated with per use charges above the membership fees can't be enough to warrant destroying customer confidence.

I too hope they work through this in good form. We need infrastructure. For that to happen, we need the companies that attempt to build the infrastructure to succeed.

 

[DNAinaGoodWay]

I too hope they work through this in good form. We need infrastructure. For that to happen, we need the companies that attempt to build the infrastructure to succeed.

Some companies will do better than others. So far, ChargePoint dominates here. Greenlots and SemaConnect have a few sites, with easy payment and websites like CP. NRG eVGo seems to be more like Blink, here at least. In addition to the forum reports on their billing, local PlugShare check ins report frequent station failures, plus, their free grace period has ended but their website had no listing for Boston to get a card, and sign up is by regional market, not national. One person tried to activate a station over the phone and the rep was unable to find the station in the system. Plus, their installing Sumitomo which frequently overheat here in summer due to their filter design and poor PM. Not a good beginning.

 

[BlackFeuille]

And to swing this thread BACK on topic...

Today I had to call again to fix a billing issue. Even though I had already pointed out an issue with their recorded "data", I received a bill for both a 9 hour and 17 hour L2 charge. So another call (20 minutes) to get it fixed.

I had connected to one station, but couldn't charge. So I connected to the next station over and charged successfully. Meanwhile, the first station is still billing, and billing... a total 9 hours of "charging". Then shortly after midnight, the billing restarts at that same first station for an additional 17 hours! Ouch!

Yesterday I was credited back the charges for the 17 hour charge, but not the 9 hour charge. How can I make them understand that it's not possible to charge a car at two stations at once???

 

[linkim]

Yesterday I was credited back the charges for the 17 hour charge, but not the 9 hour charge. How can I make them understand that it's not possible to charge a car at two stations at once???

I am currently being charged for DCQC that was for a L2 charge of 59 min, or $5.90.
A DCFC session should last, at the most, 30 min, so how they can't figure out that I couldn't charge for 59 min is hard for me to understand. I have a call to eVgo to once again try and resolve the issue.

 

[linkim]

I am currently being charged for DCQC that was for a L2 charge of 59 min, or $5.90.
A DCFC session should last, at the most, 30 min, so how they can't figure out that I couldn't charge for 59 min is hard for me to understand. I have a call to eVgo to once again try and resolve the issue.

Here is the response I received by email regarding the abovementioned problem:

"I have attached the usage data on your keycard and account. The refund for the level 2 charges will not be processed as our chargers will not read your keycard without a swipe attempt. The data presented is accurate."

Can anyone figure out what the second sentence means? eVgo knows I did a L2 charge but why the keycard was not read is confusing to me.

 

[Slow1]

I am currently being charged for DCQC that was for a L2 charge of 59 min, or $5.90.
A DCFC session should last, at the most, 30 min, so how they can't figure out that I couldn't charge for 59 min is hard for me to understand. I have a call to eVgo to once again try and resolve the issue.

Here is the response I received by email regarding the abovementioned problem:

"I have attached the usage data on your keycard and account. The refund for the level 2 charges will not be processed as our chargers will not read your keycard without a swipe attempt. The data presented is accurate."

Can anyone figure out what the second sentence means? eVgo knows I did a L2 charge but why the keycard was not read is confusing to me.

They are saying that they have confidence you did charge as they recorded the keycard swipe. They are answering a different question than you are challenging (as I read it). You are saying "yes I charged, but I know it wasn't for 59 minutes as that is not possible", they are saying "You DID charge as we recorded a swipe".

Question then is how to prove length of charge - you don't swipe to complete the transaction so you can't go by that. I presume they somehow track either the flow or (more likely) the time plugged in. Can you prove that you were not plugged in for more than 30 minutes? Even if the charging ends after 30, they may charge you until you unplug.

My chargepoint location that has an hourly rate works that way - if you don't end the session after getting a full charge (it will even email saying 'charging completed' but not end the session for you) you will get charged for the time plugged in.

 

[linkim]

Question then is how to prove length of charge - you don't swipe to complete the transaction so you can't go by that. I presume they somehow track either the flow or (more likely) the time plugged in. Can you prove that you were not plugged in for more than 30 minutes? Even if the charging ends after 30, they may charge you until you unplug.

My statement listing the charge sessions shows a total of 3 charges - 2 DCFC (26 + 26 min) and one L2 (59 min). Because the statement indicates a L2 charge (that is my recollection as well), I don't understand how eVgo can lump the cost of L2 with the DCFC cost. They charged me a total of 111 min at DCFC rate of $0.10/min. The amount of money we are talking about is very small, but I am a bit ticked off at the amount of time I have spent trying to get answers.

 

[Slow1]

Question then is how to prove length of charge - you don't swipe to complete the transaction so you can't go by that. I presume they somehow track either the flow or (more likely) the time plugged in. Can you prove that you were not plugged in for more than 30 minutes? Even if the charging ends after 30, they may charge you until you unplug.

My statement listing the charge sessions shows a total of 3 charges - 2 DCFC (26 + 26 min) and one L2 (59 min). Because the statement indicates a L2 charge (that is my recollection as well), I don't understand how eVgo can lump the cost of L2 with the DCFC cost. They charged me a total of 111 min at DCFC rate of $0.10/min. The amount of money we are talking about is very small, but I am a bit ticked off at the amount of time I have spent trying to get answers.

Agreed - this should be a relatively simple thing to do. Glad I don't have to deal with that company, I'd drop them very quickly for any other alternative. But if you don't have alternatives....

 

[DNAinaGoodWay]

Glad I don't have to deal with that company, I'd drop them very quickly for any other alternative. But if you don't have alternatives....

You now have the opportunity to deal with them. The four newest QCs in Metrowest all theirs, including one at Soloman Pond Mall just added yesterday. I could live with $10 for a half hour, especially since there are no QC alternatives at each location, but after these reports, I'm in no hurry to sign up for even their casual charging plan. NRG is a big firm, hopefully they'll figure it out. The Coply Place site also requires a minimum $10 parking fee, so really only good if you were going there anyway.

 

[Slow1]

Glad I don't have to deal with that company, I'd drop them very quickly for any other alternative. But if you don't have alternatives....

You now have the opportunity to deal with them. The four newest QCs in Metrowest all theirs, including one at Soloman Pond Mall just added yesterday. I could live with $10 for a half hour, especially since there are no QC alternatives at each location, but after these reports, I'm in no hurry to sign up for even their casual charging plan. NRG is a big firm, hopefully they'll figure it out. The Coply Place site also requires a minimum $10 parking fee, so really only good if you were going there anyway.

I'm with you - while I would not mind having the flexibility to use those spots (if they prove to be reliable), the discussion here will keep me from signing up. I simply don't have time to argue with a company about such things. At this time, I don't have a need to go to those locations (at least not regularly enough to matter).

Now if some of the 'off site' parking spots around Logan would start adding at least L1 charging that would be nice. While the spots in central parking are nice (and no additional charge) paying the central parking rates for 2 days really hurts. Off site (park and fly type spots) don't seem to have any desire to service EVs yet.

On the bright side, my wife made it round trip (88 miles) on a single charge - home with 1.1kWh remaining per leafspy.... She was a bit nervous near the end and kept it below 60mph as it was 2:30am on her return trip.... An available QC spot between here and there would have been very nice for her....

 

[linkim]

My statement listing the charge sessions shows a total of 3 charges - 2 DCFC (26 + 26 min) and one L2 (59 min). Because the statement indicates a L2 charge (that is my recollection as well), I don't understand how eVgo can lump the cost of L2 with the DCFC cost. They charged me a total of 111 min at DCFC rate of $0.10/min. The amount of money we are talking about is very small, but I am a bit ticked off at the amount of time I have spent trying to get answers.

Good news, at least for me. After leaving voicemail, followed by email, I was finally able to talk to someone at eVgo who could do something about the overcharge on my statement. So what I was told is that the cost for charging is based on the total time the EV is plugged in and not the charge time. So I had to explain that I did not plug in my LEAF on DCFC for 59 min, and it was L2 I was using. Somehow there was a computer software or human error. In any case, eVgo agreed to rebate my credit card for the overcharge.
This exercise took more time than I expected, and I am left to wonder why?

My speculation, but it seems that the customer service reps and the back office accounting reps do not have access to the same information that we generate during charging sessions.

 

[DNAinaGoodWay]

Glad I don't have to deal with that company, I'd drop them very quickly for any other alternative. But if you don't have alternatives....

You now have the opportunity to deal with them. The four newest QCs in Metrowest all theirs, including one at Soloman Pond Mall just added yesterday. I could live with $10 for a half hour, especially since there are no QC alternatives at each location, but after these reports, I'm in no hurry to sign up for even their casual charging plan. NRG is a big firm, hopefully they'll figure it out. The Coply Place site also requires a minimum $10 parking fee, so really only good if you were going there anyway.

I'm with you - while I would not mind having the flexibility to use those spots (if they prove to be reliable), the discussion here will keep me from signing up. I simply don't have time to argue with a company about such things. At this time, I don't have a need to go to those locations (at least not regularly enough to matter).

Now if some of the 'off site' parking spots around Logan would start adding at least L1 charging that would be nice. While the spots in central parking are nice (and no additional charge) paying the central parking rates for 2 days really hurts. Off site (park and fly type spots) don't seem to have any desire to service EVs yet.

On the bright side, my wife made it round trip (88 miles) on a single charge - home with 1.1kWh remaining per leafspy.... She was a bit nervous near the end and kept it below 60mph as it was 2:30am on her return trip.... An available QC spot between here and there would have been very nice for her....

Just today, NRG QCs were listed at the Emerald Square Mall in North Attleboro and at Southshore Plaza in Braintree. So have to give them kudos for finally starting to give us more locations. If only they would adopt the kind of app based accounting other providers use.

As for Logan, check out http://www.flightcar.com" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false; at the Comfort Inn in Revere. You'll return to a charged car and no parking fee, possibly rental income if it gets rented. Fully insured.

 

[DaveinOlyWA]

well, they still only have one really convenient location so the temptation is weak. I might consider messing with them later this year when work slows down and I am getting bored with Facebook but right now, I don't have the time so the ball is in their court.

EvGO; make me envious!

 

[DNAinaGoodWay]

Just today, NRG QCs were listed at the Emerald Square Mall in North Attleboro and at Southshore Plaza in Braintree. So have to give them kudos for finally starting to give us more locations. If only they would adopt the kind of app based accounting other providers use.

Another QC just listed at Rockingham Park Mall in Salem, NH. NRG is on a roll.

The one at Emerald a Square Mall is just down the road from a brand new free one at Nissan Village, so there at least is an alternative.

Now I wonder, are these reports on NRG's poor accounting just the tip of an iceberg, or relatively isolated cases? NRG is new to the east coast. How pervasive are these problems amongst those who've used them for a while?