$450 bill from NRG / eVgo

[Valdemar]

You'd be amazed at some of the stuff that a motivated CS intern can come up with. The secret is finding someone who lives/breaths computers, rather than someone who only knows what they've learned in class.

I'd be amazed if a CS intern could come up with a maintainable and scalable product suitable for real life production environment. Not saying it's impossible, just highly unlikely.

 

[AlanSqB]

Anyway, I used one of their stations for the first time two weeks ago (one time use) and the speed of the charge is amazing. No other L3 here in Colorado comes anywhere close.

It is because they use top tier purified electrons that carry the same charge as regular electrons but thanks to their smaller diameter they can push through about 25% more of them through the wires in the same time :lol: Seriously, why do you think others are slower? Are they 25kW chargers?

While I can certainly appreciate your attempt at humor, I'm a little better educated about these things than the normal EV consumer. Indeed, every unit I have ever used here in Colorado is current limited due to the altitude. I don't have data on the level of limitation, it seems that many are probably in the 20-25 kW range despite being 50kW chargers.

 

[AlanSqB]

These are numbers I guarantee you will not see on other chargers in Colorado. Sorry I didn't explain this point to the folks living in the coastal areas but the air gets a little thin up here sometimes.

 

[Slow1]

While I can certainly appreciate your attempt at humor, I'm a little better educated about these things than the normal EV consumer. Indeed, every unit I have ever used here in Colorado is current limited due to the altitude. I don't have data on the level of limitation, it seems that many are probably in the 20-25 kW range despite being 50kW chargers.

I'm rather curious (being a low-lander) what does altitude have to do with the maximum charge rate?

 

[mjblazin]

The impacts on battery performance of high altitudes are well known. I thought it was more an issue for planes. Maybe the problems associated with small electronics at high altitudes get magnified by huge battery size at lower altitudes.

 

[DaveEV]

At high altitude the two main factors that need to be accounted for due to thin air are cooling and reduced dielectric strength.
So the cooling system needs to be beefier and insulative air gaps need to be larger.
http://power-topics.blogspot.com/2012/10/how-does-altitude-affect-ac-dc-power.html" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

 

[abasile]

At high altitude the two main factors that need to be accounted for due to thin air are cooling and reduced dielectric strength.
So the cooling system needs to be beefier and insulative air gaps need to be larger.
http://power-topics.blogspot.com/2012/10/how-does-altitude-affect-ac-dc-power.html" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

Thanks for the link. I had never been aware of reduced dielectric strength as a factor. Makes perfect sense.

 

[chiu100ca]

In April I received a bill from Nrg saying I charged at a fast charger for 70 minutes which is impossible. The free EvGo program from Nissan only allows me to charge for 30 min. (Time counts down from beginning) how could I charge consecutively for 70 min non-stop? And I never use a charging station for parking, I know people are waiting in line to get charge. When questioned with Nrg customer service all they can see is the amount I owed. They can not provide any other detail info regarding to the charge. They said billing department will be in contact with me and I never got it.
My credit card on file was expired and they couldn't take money from it. They just suspended my account without any reminder email and now I have to pay $8 for stop of service!
If anyone experience the same over charge or wrong charge like I did, we should make a complain to BBB or something. Luckily there are a few free charging station I can use. I am not paying Nrg for their untruthful business conduct.

 

[BlackFeuille]

I recently received a bill from NRG that charged me for connecting (L2) for 3 hours. Since I'm on NCTC, I was billed only 2 hours. The problem? I was only charging for 18 (NRG records) to 20 (my records) minutes. I didn't "stay connected" for 159 minutes. Urgh!

A billing staffer was able to send me a spreadsheet with all connect times, charge times, bill times, etc. It showed two additional entries (next month) for exactly 240 minutes of charge time. One of these was on a day the car stayed in my garage all day. One "claimed" I was connected for 17 hours to the minute! (Midnight to 5:00 p.m.)

I've spent over an hour on the phone working towards getting all of this fixed. (I still don't know if I have been successful.) Stupid use of my time, but otherwise how will they learn? How many other people simply pay without knowing they were overcharged? Is this a sly business model or sloppy accounting/programing?

Until this is fixed, I will be charging at the Blink station just 1/4 mile down the road.

 

[Slow1]

Interesting problem - I wonder how one could prove or disprove that they were charging or not at a given time. Is there some way that the stations can identify VIN or anything? Seems that would be a good addition - i.e. show what VIN claimed to be charging... Then again, I suppose if their system is severely screwed up then that could be falsely reported too...

I do believe the responsibility of proving use should be on the vendor though - consider having your credit card company get involved to reverse charges and that may get their attention?

 

[BlackFeuille]

Interesting problem - I wonder how one could prove or disprove that they were charging or not at a given time. Is there some way that the stations can identify VIN or anything? Seems that would be a good addition - i.e. show what VIN claimed to be charging... Then again, I suppose if their system is severely screwed up then that could be falsely reported too...

I do believe the responsibility of proving use should be on the vendor though - consider having your credit card company get involved to reverse charges and that may get their attention?

Exactly! I'd have to photograph my car _apart_ from the charging station. Every charge. And the counter claim is that I "doctored" the photos or my camera's clock. I don't see that there's any sensor to indicate that the J1772 is back in the holster. How to verify that I'm not _still_ being charged. Call their helpdesk every time?

I didn't do any research, but I seem to recall that there was verbiage that prohibited reversing charges without going to arbitration or some such. This memory might be false or related to a different company however.

 

[davewill]

For most legal purposes, a detailed log of your charge events would be fairly persuasive. Especially if you can produce either statements from NRG that they had made mistakes at other times or produce other owners who could corroborate that they had also had erroneous charge time billed. You might also turn on plug and unplug emails, and archive them. Of course, CarWings isn't all that reliable itself, but if the emails were sent, they would be an independent source of info.

 

[DaveinOlyWA]

Anyway, I used one of their stations for the first time two weeks ago (one time use) and the speed of the charge is amazing. No other L3 here in Colorado comes anywhere close.

It is because they use top tier purified electrons that carry the same charge as regular electrons but thanks to their smaller diameter they can push through about 25% more of them through the wires in the same time :lol: Seriously, why do you think others are slower? Are they 25kW chargers?

Actually, I believe the difference has to do with the changeover from winter-formulation electricity to summer-formulation. The OP just happened to have that coincide with his use of a different charger, and mis-atttributed the increase in performance.

Because the measured speed varies quite widely from station to station. Have not used the nvGO station yet but the fastest in my neighborhood is the Tumwater AV station which I have measured at 45-46 KW. The Oly Dealer? never seen more than 32 out of them. Several others cap out at 40 KW and starting SOC or ambient temps play no part in these measurements.

So if its a true max L3 (which is what? 48 KW? 50?) then it would be very noticeable to me since I generally only charge the lower 2/3rds of the pack

 

[gene]

OMG, with all the headaches and costs you guys are dealing with, the $69k Tesla 70D with free Supercharging forever is looking less and less expensive!

 

[cwerdna]

OMG, with all the headaches and costs you guys are dealing with, the $69k Tesla 70D with free Supercharging forever is looking less and less expensive!

It's $76.2K to start.

 

[DaveinOlyWA]

OMG, with all the headaches and costs you guys are dealing with, the $69k Tesla 70D with free Supercharging forever is looking less and less expensive!

LOL!! as if they were the only option in town! because they are not and their reputation has caused me to ignore their fast charge station sitting .7 miles from my office!

 

[JeremyW]

They aren't the only game in town here either but they are a convenient option location wise. A new quick charger (two units actually) at a fresh-and-easy only two or three miles down the road from me has worked out very well.

 

[Valdemar]

I'd have to drive 30 miles in traffic just to get to the closest SC, lol.

 

[eloder]

I'd have to drive 30 miles in traffic just to get to the closest SC, lol.

With 250 miles of range, there's no need for Tesla owners to use superchargers for anything but long-distance roadtrips.

 

[TonyWilliams]

I'd have to drive 30 miles in traffic just to get to the closest SC, lol.

With 250 miles of range, there's no need for Tesla owners to use superchargers for anything but long-distance roadtrips.

Exactly. Tesla just put in a Supercharger about ten miles from my house (LOL)... What good is that with a 250 mile range car (LOL)?

Clearly, I want them 100-200 miles away from my house (LOL).