2019 Leaf battery overheating

[SageBrush]

The correct question here is if using the dongle interferes somehow with the user agreement or warranty terms

Neither

 

[metricus]

So OE is either cheap or likes to troll ppl :roll:

 

[metricus]

Thank you for all of your LEAFSpy testimonies.

Now granted all of you appear to be enthusiasts that like to push boundaries, sort through the jumble of data that LEAF Spy displays to sleuth trends and develop hypotheses, even though LEAF Spy does not produce much real data at all, (DTCs and clear CanBus messages like for tire pressure, etc, not withstanding), but rather presents data derived by speculative assumptions. The silver-lining is that it provides the same derived data consistently so all of the readings are questionable which does give some basis.

And sure you can look at DTCs and change some minor parameters, but how often does that happen?

The key thread from all of the things that you like about LEAF Spy is that it allows you to stretch the boundaries of what your car is capable of, and that" beat the system" satisfaction is really called entertainment.

We all have some sort of interest that we like to get under the hood on, for example mine is meteorology. The key that needs to be respected is that the data you have from LEAF Spy or any other sort of similar thing is that it is speculative not empirical. So at the minimum you have to acknowledge that.

98% of the LEAF world does not care about the things that you enjoy using LEAF Spy for, they are happy with a temperature gauge that simplifies things saying "if the gauge is between these two points, everything is fine."

They are also happy with the navigation system that can provide credible route planning taking into consideration weather, and topology, traffic. The LEAFs range estimation route planning is as good or better of an estimate as you could by thrashing through what LEAF Spy displays. But that's not the point, it's fun doing it that way, and when something is fun, it's entertainment.

So to your point, yes LEAF Spy is useful as an entertainment tool, regardless of what you choose to call it. It's fun to speculate what is happening to your LEAF in a finer granuarity and there are several things that you can infer from looking at its data, but it is not any more useful than just looking at the information that the car presents in its native displays.

I don't mean to insult any of you, and see where you are coming from, so please keep using LEAF Spy to fuel the "how many angels can fit on a pin" discussions. They are quite entertaining.

OE has a point but his sin is that he oversells it.

I agree that using the dongle and the app is a geeky thing. We are trying to work around some deficiencies that (broken record) were not disclosed. This should not be the norm.

The car is what it is and nobody needs to buy a dongle for his Honda Civic. Think about it; Nissan sells the leaf as being a Honda Civic with a smaller gas tank.

OE grossly exaggerates when he calls Leaf Spy "entertainment". Will I use it every day?. Most likely not. But I will use it on my long trips because it does provide accurate Temp data which can help me plan and adjust during my trip.

If the leaf had a more accurate temp reading the need for a dongle would have been debatable. (Nissan must have taken a lot of pain to design such a shoddy gauge when direct digital reading was so easy to display.)

OE makes some valid points but they get distorted by noise. Beating the system is not on my mind when I use Leaf Spy.

 

[OrientExpress]

To OrientExpress: Whatever Nissan calls normal range of that gauge include areas where charge power is heavily throttled down.
I would have no objections if the charge power would be reduced once the gauge reaches the short red mark or when it's on red. The very fact that they call the range normal despite this throttling situation is misleading.

Also to OrientExpress: I did have charge power of 43kW twice even after a 80 km drive. Strangely enough that was only when the car was brand new (1 week). Never seen 43 since.

So no offense, but, Nissan has quite a bit understanding of their products that any of us could ever have, and I’ll take their word over any of the speculations I hear about their product. But here is the what happens as the battery heats up. As long as the temperature is at or below the first short red bar (about 120 F) the vehicle’s battery is in its normal operating range. Above 120 F or between the short red bar and the long red bar, is the warning zone where the operator should slow down, or stop the vehicle to bring the temperature down. Above the second long red bar the power will be limited. In between the two red bars the power may be limited depending on how the car is operated. In other words if the driver insists on continuing at 75 mph on a 6% grade, then they are going to be disappointed. It’s the cars way of telling you to slow down.

Now Metricus also brings up a good example on how easy it is to disagree with someone when the lacking the basis for the discussion. Unfortunately he is not alone in this situation. In this case, 50kW chargers can give at least two different power outputs. For the newer chargers that run on 125amps, they can provide 45kW to the battery, but then the more prevalent and older 100amp chargers can only deliver abut 35kW to the vehicle. This will also affect the stepped reductions in power. In variably I have noticed the newer members of the EV family tend to have the luxury of the 125 amp chargers, while those in more established EV areas that got their chargers early on, and are stuck for the time being with 100 amps.

Lastly, I am not cheap but I am frugal.
.

 

[metricus]

As long as the temperature is at or below the first short red bar (about 120 F) the vehicle’s battery is in its normal operating range.

You are repeating the same argument while missing my point.
You talk about normal but only from power delivery aspect. In that case you are correct. The Leaf will deliver power the same way throughout the white range of the gauge.

The point I was making is that normal means normal operating conditions which INCLUDE charging.

The car does not charge as advertised (4x kW) throughout the white range of the gauge. In fact it gets throttled while in the middle. And it's not the Charger's fault!.

So this makes the statement "in normal operating range" misleading.

50kW chargers can give at least two different power outputs. For the newer chargers that run on 125amps, they can provide 45kW to the battery, but then the more prevalent and older 100amp chargers can only deliver abut 35kW to the vehicle. This will also affect the stepped reductions in power. In variably I have noticed the newer members of the EV family tend to have the luxury of the 125 amp chargers, while those in more established EV areas that got their chargers early on, and are stuck for the time being with 100 amps.

100A x 400V = 40kW. They would not be 50kW chargers.

PA turnpike has had Blink chargers early on. I am not familiar with a 100A limitation from the charger. I only know the car to control the power input. I may be wrong....?

50kW / 400V = 125A so any of those units should be capable of 125A if they are indeed 50kW units.

 

[LeftieBiker]

If I bought an ICEV that ran with the temp gauge JUST BELOW the red in Summer, I'd want that defect corrected. I'm willing to accept that OE just doesn't understand the battery heating issue well enough to debate it, but I find it hard to fathom that he just accepts whatever Nissan says - about anything - as the gospel truth.

 

[metricus]

In fact OrientExoress, if you would buy a Dongle you could see for yourself that Bjorn's graph is dead on and you can predict accurately at what Power you will charge based on your current temp.

I find this feature useful as I can adjust my conditions or, at the very least, I can tell my wife that I'll be late for dinner

 

[OrientExpress]

50kW / 400V = 125A so any of those units should be capable of 125A if they are indeed 50kW units.

Well the ones that are the early installs are not. They are 100 amps, next time you are at one of these chargers look at its spec label on the side. On top of that the provider may throttle the maximum amount of power to the vehicle. This is not universal, however. Many providers throttle because the sum of their chargers draw at a station might trigger demand charges from the utility.

To your other point about the vehicle throttling the power as the battery charges, that is how all BEVs charge, it’s not fraud or anything sinister, it’s universally how it works. You think the LEAFs throttling sucks? Quick charge a Bolt or e-Golf and see what the agony of speed is really like.

Remember, just because it can, does not necessarily mean it will.

And just because you think is something is a defect does not make it so.

 

[OrientExpress]

In fact OrientExoress, if you would buy a Dongle you could see for yourself that Bjorn's graph is dead on and you can predict accurately at what Power you will charge based on your current temp.

I find this feature useful as I can adjust my conditions or, at the very least, I can tell my wife that I'll be late for dinner

And you can’t figure that out by looking at the Temperature gauge?

 

[DaveinOlyWA]

Is there a way to fix this? ex: twist someone's hand to install the blue graph software? Does anyone in US have the non rapidgate software? etc...etc...?

No but there is a petition to offer it to us. Realize the EU got this fix a year ago.

https://www.change.org/p/nissan-north-america-fix-rapidgate-for-early-2018-leaf-buyers?fbclid=IwAR0_KiuRCNR1l02xSgxE5jkXzptvGYw2IupLIKxlS2x0rp9AfFjithM1jjQ

 

[metricus]

In fact OrientExoress, if you would buy a Dongle you could see for yourself that Bjorn's graph is dead on and you can predict accurately at what Power you will charge based on your current temp.

I find this feature useful as I can adjust my conditions or, at the very least, I can tell my wife that I'll be late for dinner

And you can’t figure that out by looking at the Temperature gauge?

With gauge in the middle you could be charging anywhere between 45 and 35 kW.
Get a dongle and see for yourself.

Another thing you see more accurately is what exact measures you can take to reduce your temp increase. (I am yet to experience decreases).
You can adjust your driving with real-time feedback. The gauge is too vague to provide usable feedback. Might as well ignore it and wait till the red light comes on.

It's a valuable tool not "entertainment".

 

[metricus]

No but there is a petition to offer it to us. Realize the EU got this fix a year ago.

Interesting. Thanks. It should read for all Leaf owners not just early 2018 afaik.

 

[OrientExpress]

Is there a way to fix this? ex: twist someone's hand to install the blue graph software? Does anyone in US have the non rapidgate software? etc...etc...?

Dave, you know that only early 2018 car’s have the charging profile that those with ants in their pants don’t like. The new profile was a rolling revision to the ‘18 LEAF in the summer of 2018 or so. The 2019 40 kWh cars all have the new profile. Unfortunately no one has been able to present a compelling argument that might sway Nissan to offer the patch retroactively.

 

[OrientExpress]

In fact OrientExoress, if you would buy a Dongle you could see for yourself that Bjorn's graph is dead

With gauge in the middle you could be charging anywhere between 45 and 35 kW.
Get a dongle and see for yourself.

It's a valuable tool not "entertainment".

Hmmm, trust entertainment hackware endorsed by the lay public, or the manufacturer? It looks like many have cast their lot with the unwashed masses that don’t a have grounding on what they don’t have a grounding on.

That is not the road I choose.

 

[metricus]

Dave, you know that only early 2018 car’s have the charging profile that those with ants in their pants don’t like. The new profile was a rolling revision to the ‘18 LEAF in the summer of 2018 or so. The 2019 40 kWh cars all have the new profile. Unfortunately no one has been able to present a compelling argument that might sway Nissan.

What other profile?. My 2019 has the same profile I know as rapidgate. It is Bjorn's red graph that he referred as early 2018. On the dot! So I see no change in the us models.

I guess if you had a dongle you could see for yourself...?

 

[WetEV]

There would be less need for LeafSpy if the LEAF had a real temperature gauge.

 

[OrientExpress]

There would be less need for LeafSpy if the LEAF had a real temperature gauge.

It does, and it is in perfect harmony with the vast majority of its owners. That’s who it is targeted at, not those looking for geeky entertainment while they try to rid their pants of ants.

It is interesting that four years ago I proposed an infotainment screen for the LEAF that was modeled after the GTR’s which has configurable gauges on it. Needless to say it didn’t go anywhere.

 

[OrientExpress]

What other profile?. My 2019 has the same profile I know as rapidgate. It is Bjorn's red graph that he referred as early 2018. On the dot! So I see no change in the us models.

I guess if you had a dongle you could see for yourself...?

I don’t know what to tell you. Unless you have some credible evidence, I just have to question your discrepancy with the source or interpretation.

I currently have both a 2019 SL and early 2018 SL 40kWh sitting in my driveway, and their charge profiles do not match. The 2019 does not taper as much and levels off fairly quickly, regardless of the initial SoC, number or interval of quick charges or temperature. Depending on the SoC number of charges, interval, and battery temp, the 2018 can have an aggressive taper.

 

[SageBrush]

What other profile?. My 2019 has the same profile I know as rapidgate. It is Bjorn's red graph that he referred as early 2018. On the dot! So I see no change in the us models.

I guess if you had a dongle you could see for yourself...?

I don’t know what to tell you. Unless you have some credible evidence ..,

How about the charger reporting 32 kW while the car temperature gauge is in the middle and the SoC is low ?

 

[SageBrush]

So OE is either cheap or likes to troll ppl :roll:

I think a shrill shill.