2016 Nissan LEAF Information - 30 kWh SV/SL, 24 kWh S

[DNAinaGoodWay]

After 12 months, 12k miles, my 2015 continues to reset itself to 292 GIDs, 22.6 kWh, 64.05 AHr

If the 2016s have 30 usable, the pack would be what, 32-34?

 

[o00scorpion00o]

What puzzles me is why Leafs that are fast charged (DC) a lot seem to be reporting higher AH readings ?

My leaf bought mid January is reporting 65 ah and 99% health after 10,500 miles and 131 QC. After a few qc's to about 80% the AH reading went up form about 63ah and I bet if I QC's more to 80% it would continue to climb.

A 2014 I ran leaf spy on back in April showed 67 AH as new, and 100% health after about 540 QC charges and 18,000 miles.

 

[DNAinaGoodWay]

I'm at 48 QC and 392 L2s, L2 almost always to 100%.

Perhaps Nissan learned from the Volt to build in extra capacity and release it over time to maintain the advertised kWhs for as long as possible. Makes sense if they want mass adoption. Who'd want an ICE with a shrinking gas tank, or steady decline in mpg?

Even better if they could make it adjust for winter cold and still maintain the original kWhs.

 

[mkjayakumar]

I strongly favor that every manufacturer should be mandated to only report usable kWh. The total kWh is a meaningless value for the consumer.

KIA is doing it right

 

[evnow]

I strongly favor that every manufacturer should be mandated to only report usable kWh. The total kWh is a meaningless value for the consumer.

Would that be in summer or winter ? Because, useable depends on temperature.

kWh capacity is not that useful (useable or total). What is needed is a better representation of range.

EPA should start adding range under different temperatures to the mix - since there is so much variation in winter & summer ranges for EVs compared to ICE (where heat is free).

KIA is doing it right

When you are selling tens of cars a month, you can always do it right

 

[EVforRobert]

I'm at 48 QC and 392 L2s, L2 almost always to 100%.

Perhaps Nissan learned from the Volt to build in extra capacity and release it over time to maintain the advertised kWhs for as long as possible.

That is interesting. What is your source?

 

[JPWhite]

Would that be in summer or winter ? Because, useable depends on temperature.

kWh capacity is not that useful (useable or total). What is needed is a better representation of range.

EPA should start adding range under different temperatures to the mix - since there is so much variation in winter & summer ranges for EVs compared to ICE (where heat is free).

That's way too complex and open to criticism/interpretation.

The usable capacity is simply the total battery capacity minus the manufacturers intentionally "reserved" capacity. The fact hat the resulting "usable" capacity can be impacted by temperature is neither here nor there. 100% of the usable capacity is going to be 100% available, other factors may affect resulting range.

If one makes adjustment based on temperature, then what about hilly regions, what about degradation?

The EPA may just meed to say YMMV.

One could argue Nissans approach of stating total capacity is better since it is an absolute number that isn't subjective or subject to changes in BMS programming.

This talk of stated and usable differences reminds me of TV's. A "46" CLASS" TV may only be 45 9/10" but it belongs to the 46" classification.

LEAF is 24kWh "Class"

 

[DNAinaGoodWay]

I'm at 48 QC and 392 L2s, L2 almost always to 100%.

Perhaps Nissan learned from the Volt to build in extra capacity and release it over time to maintain the advertised kWhs for as long as possible.

That is interesting. What is your source?

LeafSpy. The conjecture is my own. Seems a reasonable explanation of my LeafSpy readings.

 

[evnow]

That's way too complex and open to criticism/interpretation.

Any change is complex and open to criticism.

If we don't try, we'll never get better, though.

EPA already handles variations in speed & acceleration by defining cycles and averaging the results. It just needs to add temperature to the mix and average results over summer & winter.

 

[GetOffYourGas]

The usable capacity is simply the total battery capacity minus the manufacturers intentionally "reserved" capacity. The fact hat the resulting "usable" capacity can be impacted by temperature is neither here nor there. 100% of the usable capacity is going to be 100% available, other factors may affect resulting range.

Actually, that's not true. A battery will actually hold less usable energy when it is colder. This is a matter of chemistry in the battery, and is completely independent of the other factors you mention (e.g. increased air drag due to density, use of heat, etc).

Tony Williams reports this effect as about 1% per 8F below 70F in his range chart. So a battery that might hold 24kWh at 70F would only hold about 22kWh at 0F. So that 22kWh usable becomes about 20kWh useable at 0F. Note that I'm still only talking about the energy stored in the battery. And THEN you add all the extra energy draw on top of that when talking about range.

 

[DaveinOlyWA]

Mercedes (for the B-Class) and Kia (for the Soul EV) are advertising usable, not total, battery capacity. That's where the idea came from.

oh ya and the account for what?? one percent of sales? or is it two?

 

[evnow]

For whatever reason MB and Kia are downplaying their EVs capabilities. May be they don't want to sell too many of them?

 

[EVforRobert]

After 12 months, 12k miles, my 2015 continues to reset itself to 292 GIDs, 22.6 kWh, 64.05 AHr

If the 2016s have 30 usable, the pack would be what, 32-34?

Since your battery is doing quite well, it inspired me to get my own 2015. I picked up my SV + QC and LCD tonight and took it home. Forum vendor Leo Stefani was very helpful with a seamless transaction.

 

[DNAinaGoodWay]

Good for you. Hope you enjoy it.

 

[TomT]

Or maybe they simply want to be more honest and open about the capabilities...

For whatever reason MB and Kia are downplaying their EVs capabilities. May be they don't want to sell too many of them?

 

[pkulak]

After 12 months, 12k miles, my 2015 continues to reset itself to 292 GIDs, 22.6 kWh, 64.05 AHr

If the 2016s have 30 usable, the pack would be what, 32-34?

Since your battery is doing quite well, it inspired me to get my own 2015. I picked up my SV + QC and LCD tonight and took it home. Forum vendor Leo Stefani was very helpful with a seamless transaction.

I'm really leaning that way myself. The deals right now on the '15s are huge. If they keep the prices the same, paying MSRP for a '16 is going to amount to at least 7 grand more than a '15 after all the discounts. Is that worth it for 20 more miles of range? I really just wish they would announce the damn thing so I can be sure and make an informed decision between a '15 and a '16.

 

[GRA]

After 12 months, 12k miles, my 2015 continues to reset itself to 292 GIDs, 22.6 kWh, 64.05 AHr

If the 2016s have 30 usable, the pack would be what, 32-34?

Since your battery is doing quite well, it inspired me to get my own 2015. I picked up my SV + QC and LCD tonight and took it home. Forum vendor Leo Stefani was very helpful with a seamless transaction.

I'm really leaning that way myself. The deals right now on the '15s are huge. If they keep the prices the same, paying MSRP for a '16 is going to amount to at least 7 grand more than a '15 after all the discounts. Is that worth it for 20 more miles of range? I really just wish they would announce the damn thing so I can be sure and make an informed decision between a '15 and a '16.

I assume you mean 'announce the price of the 30kWh' versions, because there doesn't seem to be any doubt that the 2016 SV/SL will have that.

 

[kensiko]

When do we expect the 2016 to be released ?

 

[TomT]

As has been Nissan's policy about almost everything Leaf since the Leaf introduction, they ain't sayin...

When do we expect the 2016 to be released ?

 

[Sublime]

When do we expect the 2016 to be released ?

For the US, I think September slipped out in one of the PRs, but was quickly retracted.