2013 LEAF Specs, Pricing, Options Released In Japan

[JPWhite]

I doubt it was intended as anything other than an abbreviation... To call it a slur would require, IMHO, intent. I can give some examples, but that would be OT.

History and past usage does not support your position, regardless of intent:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Jap" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

+1! You are absolutely correct Stoaty. And JP needs to apologize to the Japanese Community.

We do live in the United States of the Offended don't we

It was a simple abbreviation to save some keystrokes, as someone else pointed out not an 'official' abbreviation either. Double trouble.

I should take a paddling over this, I might even enjoy it :mrgreen:

 

[OrientExpress]

Nissan USA - MSRP excludes destination and handling charges, tax, title, license, and options

--- 2012 ----- 2013 guess

SL $37,250 ---$38,750
SV $35,200 ---$36,400
S ----N/A- ---$33,990

This 2013 guess is significantly high. Especially for the S. You are all going to be pleasantly surprised when pricing is announced in CY 13 Q1. After federal and state incentives are added, the base LEAF is going to compete head to head with most economy C class cars.

 

[KJD]

Nissan USA - MSRP excludes destination and handling charges, tax, title, license, and options
--- 2012 ----- 2013 guess
SL $37,250 ---$38,750
SV $35,200 ---$36,400
S ----N/A- ---$33,990

This 2013 guess is significantly high. Especially for the S. You are all going to be pleasantly surprised when pricing is announced in CY 13 Q1. After federal and state incentives are added, the base LEAF is going to compete head to head with most economy C class cars.

I hope you are correct OE. I am really looking forward to January to find out for sure.

 

[DaveinOlyWA]

Base $22,500 after fed cred

Nissan USA - MSRP excludes destination and handling charges, tax, title, license, and options

--- 2012 ----- 2013 guess

SL $37,250 ---$38,750
SV $35,200 ---$36,400
S ----N/A- ---$33,990

This 2013 guess is significantly high. Especially for the S. You are all going to be pleasantly surprised when pricing is announced in CY 13 Q1. After federal and state incentives are added, the base LEAF is going to compete head to head with most economy C class cars.

 

[Herm]

Does the new foot operated emergency brake use mechanical cables or electric motors to engage the rear brakes?

 

[Transtead]

I'm so happy to be driving this vehicle. I feel like an old-time evangelist sometimes -- the other day I was showing my car off to a friend, and a crowd developed. Every one was asking the usual questions -- for far can you drive on a charge, how long to charge, how often do you charge, does it go fast, yada, yada.

This is relatively new tech. We drive our vehicles without consuming (directly) one drop of petroleum. I'm 100% sure that Nissan is R&D'ing the bejezzus out of getting a 300 mile range (or more) vehicle out the door, but it takes time to do it right. Patience young padawan learners -- in time, be assured, we will be driving with the same conveniences as we once enjoyed with our ICE vehicles.

<david gestures with his hand and gracefully floats down from his soap box>

So, has anyone heard if they've changed the nav/entertainment software? To me, that is something I'd like to see them improve. IMHO, given our iphone/android sensibilities, the center console menu navigation feels antiquated. I let 'em have it on the Nissan survey they gave me as the second most important thing (range was first). Also I was hoping they would make the console buttons programmable. When my XM goes (I won't be continuing after the trial period), one of my buttons will become useless -- it would be great to make it my charging timer button or whatever.

-Dave

 

[Jay]

This probably does not come as a revelation, but this thread was one of the busiest in quite some time. There appears to be plenty of interest in the Leaf and its 2013 model year. I'm sure Statik has similar data from insideevs.com

Always interesting to see how some news attracts more eyeballs...easy way to tell if it is of insterest or not; and why InsideEVs rarely (if ever) does Volvo pieces. Nobody cares about $90,000 plug-in diesels not available in the US, lol. The LEAF news brought in about 7,300 views yesterday. Most stories will fetch 2-3K.

 

[TEG]

there are 2 prices for the LEAF, the purchase price and the lease price. the cheapest way to purchase a LEAF is to buyout the lease...

Are you saying that it is cheaper to lease the car + buyout the lease than it is to buy it outright up front?
Or are you saying that the residual price at least end will be less than the new price?

The residual + payments are less than the new price.
...

But in California there is a $2500 CARB rebate (was $5000) that doesn't work if you do a 24 month lease.

 

[TEG]

...I'm pretty happy with all the upgrades. The sum total of these upgrades plus a bigger 10 kWh onboard charger option would make this an easy upgrade for me from my current 2011...

10kW ? I think we are hoping for 6.6kW... Not expecting more than that, even though cars like the Mini-E, Tesla Roadster, Model S, and RAV4EV all do 10kW+...

(Most public J1772 charging stations only support 6.6kW, so it becomes diminishing returns to offer higher.)

 

[TonyWilliams]

Nissan USA - MSRP excludes destination and handling charges, tax, title, license, and options
--- 2012 ----- 2013 guess
SL $37,250 ---$38,750
SV $35,200 ---$36,400
S ----N/A- ---$33,990

This 2013 guess is significantly high. Especially for the S. You are all going to be pleasantly surprised when pricing is announced in CY 13 Q1. After federal and state incentives are added, the base LEAF is going to compete head to head with most economy C class cars.

I hope you are correct OE. I am really looking forward to January to find out for sure.

I didn't guess these prices because I thought it was the smartest way to move metal. As we saw last year, they raised the price. They've stated that even with a lower cost battery (made in USA), that wouldn't lower the car price. Hence, my guess.

What I would do IF THE CAR COULD BE SOLD PROFITABLY at these prices:

--- 2012 ----- 2013 guess--- Gut Check Price
SL $37,250 ---$38,750 -----$35,999
SV $35,200 ---$36,400 -----$33,500
S ----N/A- ---$33,990 -----$29,999

 

[TonyWilliams]

...I'm pretty happy with all the upgrades. The sum total of these upgrades plus a bigger 10 kWh onboard charger option would make this an easy upgrade for me from my current 2011...

10kW ? I think we are hoping for 6.6kW... Not expecting more than that, even though cars like the Mini-E, Tesla Roadster, Model S, and RAV4EV all do 10kW+...

(Most public J1772 charging stations only support 6.6kW, so it becomes diminishing returns to offer higher.)

We have Tesla 70 amp chargers scattered all over the west coast. I want the biggest charger that J1772 can handle (75/80 amps).

18.0kW at 240*75
15.6kW at 208*75

 

[EVDrive]

For me the second biggest issue with the Leaf after the range is the long charge times.

6.6 kWh is better but not future proof. A 6.6 kWh charger is 15 years + out of date. We really need to have more powerful J1772 chargers being installed as well, 10, 20, 30, 40, 50kwh. The standard can support 70amps so let's use it. L2 is so much easier to deploy so fast l2 makes the most sense in the near term. We also need to have cheap L1and 2 chargers that operate at a low output reserved for mostly useless plug ins like the plug in Prius. No point in having weak plug ins like the PIP occupy a 20kwh charger. Until we have faster charging, plug ins will not reach their potential. It takes 10 minutes to fill at the gas station. Refueling speed and convenience is the expectation from car buyers. Tesla gets this. Nissan should copy them and do it cheaper.


quote="TonyWilliams"]

...I'm pretty happy with all the upgrades. The sum total of these upgrades plus a bigger 10 kWh onboard charger option would make this an easy upgrade for me from my current 2011...

10kW ? I think we are hoping for 6.6kW... Not expecting more than that, even though cars like the Mini-E, Tesla Roadster, Model S, and RAV4EV all do 10kW+...

(Most public J1772 charging stations only support 6.6kW, so it becomes diminishing returns to offer higher.)

We have Tesla 70 amp chargers scattered all over the west coast. I want the biggest charger that J1772 can handle (75/80 amps).

18.0kW at 240*75
15.6kW at 208*75[/quote]

 

[JPWhite]

We also need to have cheap L1and 2 chargers that operate at a low output reserved for mostly useless plug ins like the plug in Prius.

Cheap L2's for home is well suited. Homes don't have all that many amps to spare and some may own multiple EV's. Soa 30amp home charger is more than enough, except for maybe the Tesla S owner.

 

[dgpcolorado]

One downside of faster chargers for the LEAF is the lack of a TMS for the battery: faster charging means extra heat. Even 3.3 kW charging raises the pack temperature noticeably. 6.6 kW is probably ok but going a lot higher might have some negative consequences to battery life. Tesla may be able to get away with 70kW but it would be bad news for a LEAF battery pack. As seems to be the case with QC.

I worry about the effect my hill climbing and descending has on the pack. While I would like more regen for steep hill speed control, if it comes at the cost of faster degradation due to heat it might not be worth it.

Before faster charging I'd say what is needed is a TMS or a battery chemistry that is less sensitive to heat.

 

[TEG]

Cheap L2's for home is well suited. Homes don't have all that many amps to spare and some may own multiple EV's. Soa 30amp home charger is more than enough, except for maybe the Tesla S owner.

Plus most home charging tends to be overnight where 30A (6.6kW) is plenty fast enough for a LEAF sized battery pack.

 

[TEG]

For me the second biggest issue with the Leaf after the range is the long charge times.

6.6 kWh is better but not future proof. A 6.6 kWh charger is 15 years + out of date. We really need to have more powerful J1772 chargers being installed as well...

I hate waiting for charging too... (Thank goodness we are starting to get some CHAdeMO in my area to solve that.)

For J1772, I see some reasons why above 6.6kW may NOT make sense (even though I would like having it):

#1: Extra cost of the higher capacity charger in the car. (Do you really want to pay more for the LEAF?)
#2: Extra weight of the higher capacity charger in the car. (Weight hurts performance, range, etc.)
#3: Extra cost for the site installing the higher capability EVSE. Fatter wiring, more expensive J1772 plugs, more expensive breakers, possibly need to upgrade service with the power companies, etc.
#4: Power company concerns about the load on the grid.

6.6kW can give a meaningful amount of charge if you leave your car for a while (such as during the workday, while watching a movie, even eating dinner, etc.)
But, yeah, it sucks to have only 3.3kW or even 6.6kW if you are sitting there waiting for your car to get more range. For LEAF, CHAdeMO is the primary answer, and J1772 is just the "plan B".

I will be glad to get 6.6kW and not lament lack of 10kW because:
#1: I will have saved money compared to a higher current charger.
#2: I won't worry about carrying around too much charger weight in my car.
#3: I will feel like I am making good use of all the public 30A 6.6kW J1772s being deployed all over. (Higher currents are really the exception these days.)
#4: I will be able to make use of the 30A EVSE at my house. (My panel only had spare capacity for a 40A breaker, so I wouldn't be able to do higher rate charging even if the car offered it.)

 

[adric22]

I would absolutely agree that faster J1772 is probably the future. We're already seeing many new EVs that can handle 6Kw or more. The Tesla Model S can do 10Kw or 20 Kw depending on whether it is built with 1 or 2 chargers onboard. Imagine 20Kw charging for a moment. That's like 60 miles of range in one hour. The leaf could essentially completely recharge in just a bit over an hour. While it is not as fast as Chademo, it would be extremely beneficial knowing that you could stop off at a restaurant or grocery store and be completely recharged when you come back out. being that you'll likely pull in with some battery capacity already, in most cases your car would be completely topped off in 10 to 30 minutes.

That's probably a long way out.. But for the short term I'd definitely say that 6.6Kwh charging from a standard J1772 is probably more useful than having a QC port. I only say that because the of the huge lack of QC infrastructure. So in time, I might change my tune on that if it appears more QC stations are deployed.

Perhaps Nissan should look into doing things like Tesla does, offering an option for additional chargers so that the car can pull more amps while charging. I don't think it would be unreasonable to expect 3rd generation EVs like the Leaf to pull 10Kw from a standard J1772.

 

[TonyWilliams]

One downside of faster chargers for the LEAF is the lack of a TMS for the battery: faster charging means extra heat. Even 3.3 kW charging raises the pack temperature noticeably. 6.6 kW is probably ok but going a lot higher might have some negative consequences to battery life. Tesla may be able to get away with 70kW but it would be bad news for a LEAF battery pack. As seems to be the case with QC..

LEAF has all these problems with the battery solely because it doesn't have temperature control.

Charging at 2C (48kW into a 24kW battery) is hardly the problem. Heat generated is.

 

[planet4ever]

So can I infer that no longer will there be a standalone "Charger" that can be replaced/upgraded? That starting in 2013 "Charging" and "HV DC to 12 DC Converting" will be handled by the "power delivery module"? So can I also infer that there will be a "3.3 kW power delivery module" that will be standard on the "model S" (or whatever it is referred to in US) and perhaps the model SV and maybe even the model SL as well? And that there will be a "6.6 kW power delivery module" that will be an option on all three or maybe standard on the model SL?

Your first sentence sounds like you may be confused by the common misuse of the term "charger". For everything except Quick Charge there is always a charger built into the car and an EVSE used to get power from the wall to the car. The only thing that is changing is the location (and perhaps capacity) of the charger built into the car. Well, that and what appears to be a cheaper and smaller "trickle charge" EVSE that Nissan gives you with the car. The rest of the question is quite pertinent, and I too have been wondering where the 6.6kW charger will be optional or standard.

Ray

 

[JPWhite]

I hate waiting for charging too... (Thank goodness we are starting to get some CHAdeMO in my area to solve that.)

Where do live? Interested where chademo's are going next.

For me faster charging is beneficial not just the miles added in a given amount of time, but better value for money from public EVSE's that are charging by the hour.