100 Mile Club, 200 km, 300 km, 200 Mile Club (24kWh LEAF)

[RWatkins]

I keep getting close but the need for charge the next day requires recharging. I've hit 88 miles 2x.

Having topped 100 miles 15 times (and 200km 3 times), I made some of those 100-mile charges by driving around needlessly for another 12 miles after hitting the 88 miles you have gone. Just keep going until you hit 100 miles and then recharge for the next day.

From what Phil has said, it's best not to leave battery at low (or high) state of charge for very long. Best to recharge back up to a few bars as soon as you can and leave the rest for an overnight charge. (Emphasis added.)

Ingineer wrote:
[extreme SoC] x [time] x [temperature] = degradation amount. (SoC factors are highest at either of the ends; discharged/fully charged)
So if you keep it at very high SoC (or very low) for a very short time it has very little effect, especially if it's cold. If you charge to full, then let it sit for a few days, and it's hot out, that's the worst-case.

 

[MrGadget]

My primary interest in the 100 Mile Club is learning how to maximize the LEAF's range especially in colder weather to make it a viable solution for our next car. Our typical week involves one or two 40-50 mile round trips during the week and one 75-80 mile trip on Saturdays. Occasionally we have one day that involves multiple errands resulting in 95-110 miles of travel with little time for recharging and we have limited charge options in the area (Spokane, Washington).

Did you ever get your Leaf?

I too live in the Spokane, WA area (Post Falls, ID) and am trying to convince my wife that a Leaf would be a great commuter for me as I commute from Post Falls to Spokane 5 days a week. This turns out to be about 50 miles round trip daily... So, my questions would be: Is this reasonable to expect to be able to get 50 miles per day without worry? The commute would be 90% highway (65 to 70 mph speed limits, fairly open highway).
Also, how would the car handle our very cold winters? We are typically below freezing for a significant portion of winter. I do have a fully enclosed, attached garage at home. I even work directly across the street from a public charging location (multiple stalls, although I don't know many details about it yet).

I had a Prius back in 2007-2008 which my wife really detested, but I loved getting 55MPG with regularity. But, wife hated it so I say, "I had a Prius"! I could save $160+ on gas monthly for starters. For me, if I can go without paying my hard earned dollars to the oil giants, I would love that! Plus, I am a serious technology nut...

Oh yeah, and our electric rates are pretty good!
Service Availability Charge: $16.50/month, plus
Energy Charge: First 2500 kWh 6.4 cents per kWh
All over 2500 kWh 7.3 cents per kWh
Wholesale adjustment is .414 cents

Edit: Lastly, and maybe unrelated, but is this forum available on Tapatalk for Android? I did a cursory search but it did not appear to be.

 

[Reddy]

....I commute from Post Falls to Spokane 5 days a week. This turns out to be about 50 miles round trip daily... So, my questions would be: Is this reasonable to expect to be able to get 50 miles per day without worry? The commute would be 90% highway (65 to 70 mph speed limits, fairly open highway).....

Nope, not at that speed. Here's my cold weather experience:
http://www.mynissanleaf.com/viewtopic.php?f=31&t=7634&p=243033&hilit=cold#p243033
However, since you have a charging station across the street, it should be easy. I love the pre-heat inside the garage (no more window scraping for me!). You could do the same for the return commute, pre-heating while attached to the charging station.
Here are several cold weather threads, check out Kubel's experience in Michigan:
http://www.mynissanleaf.com/viewtopic.php?f=50&t=11123&p=255938&hilit=+cold#p255938

 

[TonyWilliams]

... about 50 miles round trip daily... So, my questions would be: Is this reasonable to expect to be able to get 50 miles per day without worry? The commute would be 90% highway (65 to 70 mph speed limits, fairly open highway).
Also, how would the car handle our very cold winters?

Well, lets start with the basics. When new, the LEAF will go about 4 miles per kWh of stored energy at 65mph at sea level in 70F (or warmer) air on dry, level, no wind, hard surface roadways with NO heater or air conditioning.

The battery will hold 21kWh usable when new at 70F degrees or greater. Range autonomy is simply:

Stored energy multiplied by economy (rate of consumption)

21kWh * 4 miles per kWh = 84 miles of range autonomy

So, lets consider the first part of the equation; stored energy. If the battery is cooled, it will lose capacity at about 1% per 4F degrees below 70F, so that on a really cold day of -10F, that is 80F degrees below 70F. So, -10F would have 80 divided 4 equals 20% reduction in battery capacity, or:


21kWh - (21kWh * 20%) = 16.8kWh


In addition, as the battery ages, there will be further loss of capacity. In your environment, you won't have the huge losses associated with places like Phoenix, but there will be some. For simplicity, lets say 10% loss in the first 2 years, and 20% in 5 years. Again, this loss will be SUBSTANTIALLY more in a hot environment.

So, you total stored available battery capacity in 5 years is 16.8kWh, and on that -10F day, equals:


16.8kWh - (16.8kWh * 20%) = 13.44kWh available


*******************

Now, with 13.44kWh available on that cold day in 5 years, lets figure your economy. Sailing down the highway at 65mph at 4 miles/kWh will be 53.76 miles of range autonomy. By the way, that's without a heater:


13.44kWh * 4 = 53.76 miles range autonomy


In order to complete your trip with some reserve, you will have to slow down, preheat the cabin (for comfort) and not use heat except for defrost.

Other things that will diminish economy, of course, are snow on the road, standing water, going up and down hills, wind, and weight of your cargo and passengers.

The heater can EASILY reduce your economy by 25%, making you 4 miles/kWh become 3:


13.44kWh * 3 = 40.32 miles range autonomy with the heater on.


If you slow way, way down, you could increase your economy back up to 4 miles.

Please check out the range chart in my signature line.

 

[MrGadget]

Thanks for the replies! Also, went to http://www.recargo.com/homepage" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false; and found dozens of charging stations, but most are temp types. The one across the street from me says it is limited to 1 hour parking. That's kind of a bummer. I think my work might allow me to plug in a 110 during my work hours. But, that all is moot if I don't get a Leaf! Anyway, it helps to know before you buy.
About half the time I've been taking the bus to work from a nearby town (Liberty Lake), so if I continue to do that with the Leaf, I would be looking at only 24 miles per day which would definitely be do-able. Hum.... Now to convince my wife.......

Edit: and thank you for the other links. I just read up on some real-world cold weather stats, and the battery range chart is handy as well. Thanks again.

 

[RWatkins]

... (Spokane, Washington).

Did you ever get your Leaf?
Not yet. We may be needing to sell our home and move somewhere else in the area. Need to take care of that first.

I too live in the Spokane, WA area (Post Falls, ID) and am trying to convince my wife that a Leaf would be a great commuter for me as I commute from Post Falls to Spokane 5 days a week. This turns out to be about 50 miles round trip daily... So, my questions would be: Is this reasonable to expect to be able to get 50 miles per day without worry? The commute would be 90% highway (65 to 70 mph speed limits, fairly open highway).
The posted speed limit for half your trip on I-90 is 70 then it drops to 60. As you'll find discussed in several places here there is quite a range hit when going from 60 to 70 mph. If you stick to the right lane and stay at or below 65 in the 70 zone (our friend in Post Falls drives max 60 mph on highways) you'll improve your range and add very little to your commute time.

Also, how would the car handle our very cold winters? We are typically below freezing for a significant portion of winter. I do have a fully enclosed, attached garage at home.
As Tony mentioned, a cold battery stores less energy. If your garage is insulated, but unheated like ours with northern exposure, it will typically stay at or above 50 F much of the winter dropping to 40s F when highs are in 20s like it has been recently. If you have southern exposure those temps could be higher. Post Falls has a significantly milder climate than where we live near the northern county line. When we have snow, you usually have rain and the temps are not as low.
For your commute, I suspect with preheat on both ends (see next point) the heated seats and steering wheel should be all you need. However, if you did need to use the cabin heater, most times it would be using the much more efficient heat pump on the 2013 and Nissan claims the hit to your mileage should be much less than Tony indicated based on 2011/12 resistive heat only. If you can wait a little longer, you might want to see what reviews indicate about 2013 heat pump efficiency in different temperature ranges.

I even work directly across the street from a public charging location (multiple stalls, although I don't know many details about it yet).
Is it Avista HQ, City Hall or another location? Even an hour charge near the end of the work day would allow you to get several more miles and a preheat before returning home. Note that the 2013 models (SV & SL) come with a 6/6.6 kWh charger that's twice as fast as the 2011/12 on L2.
...

Oh yeah, and our electric rates are pretty good!
KEC not Avista, right? Same as us at this time. Are you rural Post Falls?
Service Availability Charge: $16.50/month, Avista's is $5.25, but...plus
Energy Charge: First 2500 kWh 6.4 cents per kWh ... costs about $0.01 more than KEC per kWh
All over 2500 kWh 7.3 cents per kWh
Wholesale adjustment is .414 cents

...

69800 is also a North Idaho LEAF owner with winter experience. I haven't contacted him yet but you can search for his posts to find ones relevant to you. Here are two regarding winter commute:
http://www.mynissanleaf.com/viewtopic.php?f=49&t=10130&p=231594#p231594" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;
and
http://www.mynissanleaf.com/viewtopic.php?f=17&t=7273&p=168413#p168413" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

There are also other LEAF owners in Spokane area, although they may not all be on mynissanleaf. Google Nissan Leaf Spokane. One I believe has a FaceBook page.

 

[MrGadget]

... (Spokane, Washington).

Did you ever get your Leaf?
Not yet. We may be needing to sell our home and move somewhere else in the area. Need to take care of that first.

I too live in the Spokane, WA area (Post Falls, ID) and am trying to convince my wife that a Leaf would be a great commuter for me as I commute from Post Falls to Spokane 5 days a week. This turns out to be about 50 miles round trip daily... So, my questions would be: Is this reasonable to expect to be able to get 50 miles per day without worry? The commute would be 90% highway (65 to 70 mph speed limits, fairly open highway).
The posted speed limit for half your trip on I-90 is 70 then it drops to 60. As you'll find discussed in several places here there is quite a range hit when going from 60 to 70 mph. If you stick to the right lane and stay at or below 65 in the 70 zone (our friend in Post Falls drives max 60 mph on highways) you'll improve your range and add very little to your commute time.

Also, how would the car handle our very cold winters? We are typically below freezing for a significant portion of winter. I do have a fully enclosed, attached garage at home.
As Tony mentioned, a cold battery stores less energy. If your garage is insulated, but unheated like ours with northern exposure, it will typically stay at or above 50 F much of the winter dropping to 40s F when highs are in 20s like it has been recently. If you have southern exposure those temps could be higher. Post Falls has a significantly milder climate than where we live near the northern county line. When we have snow, you usually have rain and the temps are not as low.
For your commute, I suspect with preheat on both ends (see next point) the heated seats and steering wheel should be all you need. However, if you did need to use the cabin heater, most times it would be using the much more efficient heat pump on the 2013 and Nissan claims the hit to your mileage should be much less than Tony indicated based on 2011/12 resistive heat only. If you can wait a little longer, you might want to see what reviews indicate about 2013 heat pump efficiency in different temperature ranges.

I even work directly across the street from a public charging location (multiple stalls, although I don't know many details about it yet).
Is it Avista HQ, City Hall or another location? Even an hour charge near the end of the work day would allow you to get several more miles and a preheat before returning home. Note that the 2013 models (SV & SL) come with a 6/6.6 kWh charger that's twice as fast as the 2011/12 on L2.
...

Oh yeah, and our electric rates are pretty good!
KEC not Avista, right? Same as us at this time. Are you rural Post Falls?
Service Availability Charge: $16.50/month, Avista's is $5.25, but...plus
Energy Charge: First 2500 kWh 6.4 cents per kWh ... costs about $0.01 more than KEC per kWh
All over 2500 kWh 7.3 cents per kWh
Wholesale adjustment is .414 cents

...

69800 is also a North Idaho LEAF owner with winter experience. I haven't contacted him yet but you can search for his posts to find ones relevant to you. Here are two regarding winter commute:
http://www.mynissanleaf.com/viewtopic.php?f=49&t=10130&p=231594#p231594" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;
and
http://www.mynissanleaf.com/viewtopic.php?f=17&t=7273&p=168413#p168413" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

There are also other LEAF owners in Spokane area, although they may not all be on mynissanleaf. Google Nissan Leaf Spokane. One I believe has a FaceBook page.

Thanks! We are south of the 90 off exit 7. A short 1 mile from the freeway entrance. Yeah, I suspect that if I go with a 2013 (or, once I am ready, newer), those improvements will make a difference for me.
You know what would be ideal? If the Spokane Area Transit would install chargers in the Park and Ride locations. Ideally, I would drive to Liberty Lake (about 12 miles), park, and then grab the bus to work (free with my city ID). Would be nice to have the car ready to roll when I return to the Park and Ride. Now that would be an awesome way to save money. Shorter drive (but longer commute), no downtown parking rates to pay, and no gas to purchase! Time to write to the STA and the city...

 

[RWatkins]

Thanks! We are south of the 90 off exit 7. A short 1 mile from the freeway entrance. Yeah, I suspect that if I go with a 2013 (or, once I am ready, newer), those improvements will make a difference for me.
You know what would be ideal? If the Spokane Area Transit would install chargers in the Park and Ride locations. Ideally, I would drive to Liberty Lake (about 12 miles), park, and then grab the bus to work (free with my city ID). Would be nice to have the car ready to roll when I return to the Park and Ride. Now that would be an awesome way to save money. Shorter drive (but longer commute), no downtown parking rates to pay, and no gas to purchase! Time to write to the STA and the city...

With a free bus ride and no parking costs in Spokane, you should be fine with your commute. There should be plenty of battery capacity to get to and from Liberty Lake and preheat it before you get there on the way home.

We've gotten OT here and I hope to start up a new thread for North Idaho/Spokane area current and hopeful owners when I have time, perhaps Sunday. When you do get your LEAF, you'll have to revisit this thread and see if you can join the club. There is plenty of fairly level ground around that could work, but summertime would be the best.

 

[spike09]

I was motivated anew by N1ghtrider continuous adventures in the 100+ club so much so that I decided once again to drive 100 miles on a single charge. Here is a pic of my first entry into the 100 miles club back when I just got my car.

No further attempts were made and now my Li-Ions are over 13 months old! I still have 12 bars but without a GID meter I can not ascertain my battery capacity. My current driving routine averages 76 miles a charge so I was confident I could do it again if I slowed down a bit.

I started with a full charge on Monday ready to see how many times I could make my 20+ mile commute. Since I knew I would be driving at or under the speed limit I selected the slowest possible route (25% highway and 75% surface roads in urban traffic).

The bars started disappearing much more quickly than I expected but the last two bars kept me going for a while. I still had one bar and 8 miles remaining when I hit 100 miles. Perhaps I was driving a bit too slow! I was at 104.5 miles when I finally lost my last bar. The GOM instantly went from 5 miles remaining to "---". I averaged 6.6 m/kWh for the entire trip and actually drove the first 52 miles in D mode.

I drove 105.1 miles and made 4 round trips to work. I am now certain I could have gone all week if I started in Eco mode.

Shall I make this a trilogy with a daring Turtle-Mode run?
For now I am back to my regular fast commute route (66% highway and 34% surface roads) but I am still taking it slow and driving in Eco mode. I much prefer D mode and only use Eco mode when I am short of my destination. I will continue driving in Eco mode long enough to figure out how much extra range I get. This also might give me the courage to actually hit Turtle mode. I have had plenty of opportunities to go into turtle mode I have always chickened out.

 

[EdmondLeaf]

Congrats, I see that your you have 6TB what was the temperature that week? According to my estimation it appears that your car have 90% of capacity comparing to that what I had when I did my 100 mile run I did 101.5 from 80% with 7mkWh My car was 5 mo old and 7KM.

 

[spike09]

Congrats, I see that your you have 6TB what was the temperature that week? According to my estimation it appears that your car have 90% of capacity comparing to that what I had when I did my 100 mile run I did 101.5 from 80% with 7mkWh My car was 5 mo old and 7KM.

80F Highs, 70F Lows. South Florida temps do not vary much so I am almost always at 6 bars. I does dip occasionally down to 5 bars when it gets around 65F.

 

[Weatherman]

We just finished one of the warmest January's on record. We really aren't supposed to have lots of highs in the 80s and lows in the 70s in January, but that's what has happened this year.

 

[EdmondLeaf]

No wonder TB6 is 74 - 98 F. I thought it was higher.

 

[spike09]

No wonder TB6 is 74 - 98 F. I thought it was higher.

From what I have read on the Forum and Wiki, averaging TB6 is safe but averaging TB7 increases your chances for early capacity loss. While the LEAF might not have much in the way of thermal management, at least our thermal management systems are not causing our batteries to catching fire like on the Boeing 787's!

 

[TonyWilliams]

I was motivated anew by N1ghtrider continuous adventures in the 100+ club so much so that I decided once again to drive 100 miles on a single charge. Here is a pic of my first entry into the 100 miles club back when I just got my car.... I was at 104.5 miles when I finally lost my last bar. The GOM instantly went from 5 miles remaining to "---". I averaged 6.6 m/kWh for the entire trip and actually drove the first 52 miles in D mode.

Welcome to the club !!

 

[N1ghtrider]

Way to go, Spike! Let me know next time you think about going into turtle mode and I will come along and wait with you for the tow truck.

Roy

 

[mhigley]

Hum.... Now to convince my wife..

Has your wife driven a Leaf for more than a short test drive? My wife was not sold on EVs at all, then she drove the Leaf. I drive the Leaf the most because I run most of the errands but every day my wife slips in a not so subtle hint that she wants to take the Leaf during the day. I explain to her that it is more practical for me to drive the Leaf and that she drive the gasser stink mobile. Anyway she wanted her car and she got it. Now feel like she's trying to wear me down by making little comments like "It sure would be nice to have those heated seats" or "I guess I have to go buy gas AGAIN!".

For now I am standing my ground.

My point is, don't convince your wife too much or she might take it from you

I'm going to shoot for my first 100 miles on one charge next weekend.

 

[spike09]

Way to go, Spike! Let me know next time you think about going into turtle mode and I will come along and wait with you for the tow truck.

Roy

The third time was a lot easier than I thought! I took my regular highway route, stayed under the speed limit and drove in Eco mode. Made 4 round trips to work. VLB warning at 99.2. Made it home at 101.2 but decided not to drive around the block to see when I would hit Turtle mode. Maybe next time.

Any further attempts into the 100 mile club will be purely accidental although I am sticking with Eco mode for awhile. The 200km Club sounds intriguing but I need to brush up on my hypermiling skills before planning that drive!

 

[pchilds]

Start GIDs 254,
LBW at 75.4 miles,
VLBW at 98.8 miles,
End Gids 23,
231 X .075 = 17.325 kWh,
100.1 / 17.325 = 5.778 Mi/kWh.
Displayed Mi/kWh 6.2
100.1 / 6.2 = 16.145 kWh

 

[TonyWilliams]

100.1 / 17.325 = 5.778 Mi/kWh.
Displayed Mi/kWh 6.2
100.1 / 6.2 = 16.145 kWh

Those discrepancies in the displayed data are frustrating!!! One thing that I will offer is that a Gid will fluctuate from the 75 watt/hour value with temperature. If it was colder than 70F, then the delta between the two might be a bit less.

Welcome aboard Mr. 44!!