100 Mile Club, 200 km, 300 km, 200 Mile Club (24kWh LEAF)

[NullPointer]

what really caught my attention is the miles/bar readings. 9 miles on the bar# 12 is amazing, given that you don't get much in terms of regen when you have 12 bars. And also I noticed that bar# 2 gave 14 miles, which is even more impressive.

Bar #2 always seems to last a very long time, I call it the "In-A-Gadda-Da-Vida" bar.

Not sure how that top bar lasted so long. Perhaps because I had recently pulled the car off the wire?

 

[edatoakrun]

...If our power numbers are accurate, I believe your battery may have more capacity! You drew 26.85 kWh according to your meter, implying 26.85 * 0.78 = 20.94 kWh made it into the battery. Add in the 1.84 kWh left available at VLBW, and take off 0.7/5.7 = 0.12 kWh (you went 0.7 mi past VLBW) and this suggests that you had 22.66 kWh available to use! This is higher than the 21.5 kWh figure that I recall mentioned on this forum, as well as my own figure of 27.1 * 0.78 = 21.1 kWh available.

Or, perhaps our meters are reading funny Mine is just a plain old kill-a-watt. Yes, let's compare meters sometime.

Or else, your LEAFs are reporting "funny" m/kWh results.

If your meters do check out, this would seem to be further confirmation of LEAF m/kWh report inaccuracy.

 

[RegGuheert]

Or else, your LEAFs are reporting "funny" m/kWh results.

If your meters do check out, this would seem to be further confirmation of LEAF m/kWh report inaccuracy.

Agreed. Frankly, I expect to see differences between NullPointer's KillAWatt meter and my Brand 20-1850 power meter, but not 8 percent! I'll guess less than 2%.

But here's the thing: I have always considered that the Hall effect sensors used to measure the traction currents in the LEAF might go out of calibration over time, particularly at higher temperatures, but frankly no error in the current sensors should impact the LEAF's range. And I think that is what Ed is reporting: range has not changed but reported efficiency has gone up, making the capacity seem lower.

But in this comparison, our LEAF has lower RANGE than NullPointer's, at least down to VLBW. To me there are only three things which could account for this difference of range:

- The capacity of the battery in our LEAF is lower than NullPointer's. Some or all of this capacity difference could be due simply to cell imbalances. FWIW, I had a drive from 100% to LBW soon after this test that indicated one additional kWh.
- The traction battery VOLTMETERS inside our LEAF read higher than NullPointers, resulting in battery charging cutting off at a lower ACTUAL battery voltage and therefore lower stored energy.
- The difference in range is recovered between VLBW and turtle.

All three of these things likely have some impact. Since our LEAF is older, I'm pretty sure the first one is part of the equation. But I do not know anything about the instrumentation in the LEAF so I cannot make a comment on the likelihood of the second or third options.

If we get a chance to check out our meters at some point, we will report the results here.

 

[edatoakrun]

Or else, your LEAFs are reporting "funny" m/kWh results.

If your meters do check out, this would seem to be further confirmation of LEAF m/kWh report inaccuracy.

Agreed. Frankly, I expect to see differences between NullPointer's KillAWatt meter and my Brand 20-1850 power meter, but not 8 percent! I'll guess less than 2%.

But here's the thing: I have always considered that the Hall effect sensors used to measure the traction currents in the LEAF might go out of calibration over time, particularly at higher temperatures, but frankly no error in the current sensors should impact the LEAF's range. And I think that is what Ed is reporting: range has not changed but reported efficiency has gone up, making the capacity seem lower.

But in this comparison, our LEAF has lower RANGE than NullPointer's, at least down to VLBW. To me there are only three things which could account for this difference of range:

- The capacity of the battery in our LEAF is lower than NullPointer's.
- The traction battery VOLTMETERS inside our LEAF read higher than NullPointers, resulting in battery charging cutting off at a lower ACTUAL battery voltage and therefore lower stored energy.
- The difference in range is recovered between VLBW and turtle.

All three of these things likely have some impact. Since our LEAF is older, I'm pretty sure the first one is part of the equation. But I do not know anything about the instrumentation in the LEAF so I cannot make a comment on the likelihood of the second or third options.

If we get a chance to check out our meters at some point, we will report the results here.

Other possibilities, IMO, are:

Varying battery temps at time of the charge.

Varying access allowed by the BMS of the charge percentages between "100%" and any low state of charge, from LBW to "stop".

Stop is not full discharge. It is the BMS' way of telling the driver that you have failed the "stupid test", and you will damage the battery if it allows you to drive any further...

 

[edatoakrun]

104.7 odometer miles to VLBW, 107.1 miles to finish, at ~just below the VLBW charge level after ~250 ft net descent, in those last 2.4 slow miles.

Nothing unexpected, but I'll post the details at the thread below, once I get CW report and recharge times.

http://www.mynissanleaf.com/viewtopic.php?f=31&t=9064&start=30" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

Number seven, and maybe the last 100 + miles on my usual test route, till next Summer. I could practically feel the air thicken up tonight, when it cooled down after the sun set, and today may have been my last chance till next summer to have 6 bars of battery temp during the charge.

112.7 miles last June (p 40) was my longest run of the Summer. I sort of wish I'd tried for a long run the first Summer I had my LEAF, as I expect I could have done a few more miles, with a fresh battery.

Of course, I expect to have a fresh battery again someday, and get another run at 120(?) miles, on this route with ~6,000 ft of total ascent, and the same descent.

I hope that will be many years from now, though...

 

[FalconFour]

Tonight I'm definitely in for a challenge...

Gonna put everything I saw in the first few pages here (seriously? 43 pages? One thing that bugs me about forums in general... valuable information lost in the fog!) to use... air up the tires to max rated pressure, stay off highways... highly doubt this is going to work but tonight is pretty ideal as far as conditions.

I'm about 75% certain I'm going to need a tow home, though...

 

[surfingslovak]

I'm about 75% certain I'm going to need a tow home, though...

I would pick up some charge at Tracy Nissan, it's right off the freeway. I'm not sure about Central Valley Nissan in Modesto, the charging station is close to the entrance, but they might block it after 9 pm, just like you said. There are some Coulombs in Patterson, and it might be a good idea to change your route to hit them instead. It's about 100 miles from Patterson to Fresno. Where are the quick chargers when you need them? Good luck!

 

[FalconFour]

Excellent! That's 110 miles of non-highway miles too! I didn't even see that. I've been hopping ChargePoints the whole San Jose trip, all over town, they're everywhere - I love it! The Blink QCs really (and I mean, shouting obscenities, REALLY) pissed me off, though... I didn't have a Blink card (they MAIL them and they're the only thing that will activate them! FFS!), so I couldn't get the FREE DC fast charger to activate! Plugged in, ready to charge... couldn't tell the thing to flip its switch without a card. ChargePoints at least accept both credit AND a ChargePoint network card they mail - and I have one in my wallet since we're looking to buy ChargePoints at the office building I work at in Fresno. But no love from Blink - only their card, not even their iOS/Android app will activate it. Major point of sour for me. Really pissed at Blink over that.

Charging at Tracy now, probably going to try to catch a little nap for the 4 hours to get to 100%. Aired up the tires and I was getting 4.7-5.0 miles/kWh on the highway up here at 55 MPH on cruise (let me tell you how many people I pissed off that were trying to do 80 on a 65mph posted highway! And I was in the RIGHT lane!)... definitely not bad. Might be possible... I was really stretching it the last few miles when I went dead on the way up here - had to get towed 4 miles to Tracy Nissan on the way up, but I almost made 20 miles out of 2 bars!

Ironically enough, I've got an appointment Monday morning for the P1274 firmware update... I didn't even have P1273, and when I came in for that, they said there's an even newer one that just came out... wonder if I'll make it there in time for that appointment! :lol:

edit: 96.9 miles if I push my luck doing 55mph the whole way along Hwy 99... now THAT might be a plausible solution! Wow, talk about stretching my luck... wonder if I'll be seeing that damned devil turtle again tonight! :lol:

 

[TonyWilliams]

edit: 96.9 miles if I push my luck doing 55mph the whole way along Hwy 99... now THAT might be a plausible solution! Wow, talk about stretching my luck... wonder if I'll be seeing that damned devil turtle again tonight! :lol:

No heater or A/C, and drive 50mph, you should be ok.

 

[surfingslovak]

edit: 96.9 miles if I push my luck doing 55mph the whole way along Hwy 99... now THAT might be a plausible solution! Wow, talk about stretching my luck... wonder if I'll be seeing that damned devil turtle again tonight! :lol:

No heater or A/C, and drive 50mph, you should be ok.

Agreed, plus it's flat like a pancake, and the car is new. FalconFour, where are you planning to charge up before the last leg of the trip?

 

[TonyWilliams]

edit: 96.9 miles if I push my luck doing 55mph the whole way along Hwy 99... now THAT might be a plausible solution! Wow, talk about stretching my luck... wonder if I'll be seeing that damned devil turtle again tonight! :lol:

No heater or A/C, and drive 50mph, you should be ok.

Agreed, plus it's flat like a pancake, and the car is new. FalconFour, where are you planning to charge up before the last leg of the trip?

Slight tailwind going southeast down the Central Valley, too.

 

[FalconFour]

Charging now at Tracy - expected 80% in another hour and a half. Then to Patterson as suggested - I guess I just overlooked those as off-route and didn't see the possibility of cutting back to 99.

The weather tonight is freaking beautiful, don't know the exact temp, but no need for CC at all. Temp indicator on the dash is worse than the guess-o-meter - when it's 90 out, it often reads craziness like 61 or sometimes 70... IDK what's up with it, but I'll ask the dealer tomorrow when I bring it in.

And even despite the trainwreck of a roadtrip, I've still got people on Facebook following my every move and asking about the LEAF as a possible next car...
(add me! )

 

[Randy3]

Do you have the EVSE upgrade? If so, the RV park at the Castle airplane museum in Atwater has been used in the past for a charge. (If needed.)

edit: Guess you didn't take that route...
By the way, the KOA Campground RV park just west of Las Banos on CA 152 has treated me well, also. Then you get to the Gilroy Premium Outlet for more electrons.

Tonight I'm definitely in for a challenge...

Gonna put everything I saw in the first few pages here (seriously? 43 pages? One thing that bugs me about forums in general... valuable information lost in the fog!) to use... air up the tires to max rated pressure, stay off highways... highly doubt this is going to work but tonight is pretty ideal as far as conditions.

I'm about 75% certain I'm going to need a tow home, though...

 

[FalconFour]

Hey, another Fresno LEAFer! Hell yeah!

Nope, no EVSE upgrade for me yet. That goes on my "consumer credit" - that little bit of money I've got that's stretched so tight now with the LEAF (my first car with a payment - yep, a new generation of pure-EV obsessed car owners!), I haven't sprung for the upgrade since I don't have a frequent application for it yet (L1 charging works great at home).

So, that's... what, 4 LEAF owners I know of in Fresno now? Need to get us all together and show off our cars to the executives at my office - we operate River Park and I've been desperately trying to convince them to put stations in!

(yep, sitting in the car now at the charger... connected via FoxFi bluetooth from my phone on my laptop with an AC/DC adapter... I came prepared!)

edit: *does a double take at the sig* RANDY! :shock: :mrgreen: Last we met, I was riding an electric bike! :lol: OK, so maybe it's still three... haha

 

[surfingslovak]

Looks like you made it, congrats!


Click to open

 

[FalconFour]

That's the one! I got home SO tired, the only thing I did was lay out the L1 charging cable, plug in, and go to SLEEP! Sorry, missed updating here... got exactly the number of miles Google said it would be, exactly 5 trees on the meter, and "very low battery"! It was awesome.

 

[TonyWilliams]

That's the one! I got home SO tired, the only thing I did was lay out the L1 charging cable, plug in, and go to SLEEP! Sorry, missed updating here... got exactly the number of miles Google said it would be, exactly 5 trees on the meter, and "very low battery"! It was awesome.

How far past VLB did you drive?

 

[FalconFour]

That's the one! I got home SO tired, the only thing I did was lay out the L1 charging cable, plug in, and go to SLEEP! Sorry, missed updating here... got exactly the number of miles Google said it would be, exactly 5 trees on the meter, and "very low battery"! It was awesome.

How far past VLB did you drive?

It came on 1.5 miles from home (Palm/Herndon in Fresno), so I could've drove around the block a few times... but figured I was about to fall asleep on the wheel so it wasn't worth the stretch. :lol:

 

[TonyWilliams]

How far past VLB did you drive?

It came on 1.5 miles from home

Ok, I'll add 6 miles as the likely turtle mode, for 102 miles at 5.4 = 18.9 kWh. How new is your car?

 

[surfingslovak]

How new is your car?

September 2012 is listed as delivery date, but it might be interesting to know when it was manufactured. Judging by the VIN, it could be a late 2011 or early 2012 model year?