2016 SV+ battery going cooky rodents and warranties horay!

OK my range has suddenly dropped a LOT I mean I went from being able to pretty reliably get 80 miles range (return trip is 1800ft elevation climb) to now I can't even get 50 miles !!

I went down into Albuquerque 24 miles. picked up some water tanks and headed back up mountain. I started with a full charge so I never even looked at the charge level until over the speakers I hear "destination may be out of range" and I was like WTF ? just by sheer dumb luck on a LARK I used the navigation system in the leaf that day which is the ONLY reason I got that warning !! otherwise minutes later I would be on the side of the road waiting for a tow!!

I look down and I am at 21% and its dropping like a damned rock like I am actually watching it drop 21% 20% 19% I cut the cruise turn everything off make sure the heat is still off put the hazards on and drop down to 45mph. this is NOT FUN cars are passing me at 70mph but its that or just pull over and wait for a tow.

I limp home with I would guess around 3% left. (it was just *** for both by then for some time!!)

I plug it into the oem trickle charger to be safe. 2 hours later its at 56% from 6% which as anyone with even basic electrical knowledge knows is impossible since I am only feeding it 13a at 110v. WTF

My gut tells me "bad cells" anyway I make an appointment to the dealer. on the way TO the dealer I push it a bit faster than I normally do I forgot to unplug it the night before so the charge us under 30% when I get to the dealer and get this

The damned thing Turtles on me at 71mph !!!! TWICE !!!! the speed limit is 75mph let me tell you that is sphincter tightening to have your car slow you to 40mph with cars doing 85+ around you !!

I keep it at 65 and it stops turtling on me (the little turtle light would illuminate and it would say "motor power is being limited"

The dealer rapes me for $170 for a "diagnostics" $145 plus tax and "shop supplies" what f'ing shop supplies did you need to plug a cord from your computer into my computer exactly? and then the "sting" operating begins.

They need to drop the battery to check more. it has one HV bat code I am still waiting to get that code

$700 and here is the sting part. we think we MIGHT see rodent damage (setting me up for the fall now) if we drop the battery and there is rodent damage we can not reinstall the battery it has to be replaced. over $7000.

So I can see the writing on the wall. they will stick me for $8000 by dropping the battery claiming there is rodent damage thereby forcing me to pay another $7000 or I lose my car since they won't put the old one back in.

Talk about an big FU from nissan !!!! WTAF

OK time to sell the car while its still fine. I can get $11,800 for it.

but then I think wait. insurance. yes. my comp coverage DOES cover rodent damage and my deductible is only $100.

SO if they try to deny the warranty via rodent damage I can file a claim with insurance to cover the repair. but there is a THIRD option

They drop the battery. do NOT find rodent damage but then also claim nothing is wrong so no warranty coverage.

I DO have video of the car going into turtle mode at highway speeds.

IE I would be out $700 and still have a "problem car" if they try to go that route.

Suggestions on how best to proceed?

LeafSpy first step, post up the DTC codes second, then gets lots of advice, third.

Still looking for my damned dongle but for now here are the error codes

P3173 OBD
P31C2 TCU (probably 3g ending soon?)
U1000 Can Communications Circuit?
B29C1 EVSE Amperage Low ? (says its a past old one might not matter?)

My 2017 is experiencing similar malfunctions. However my car is not generating any error codes at all. Check out the youtube video. It turtles just after the 2:45 mark in the video. My Leaf also will suddenly drop multiple SOC bars (40% charge or so) and then will come back up within a few seconds. I've got more details on one of my initial posts:

https://www.mynissanleaf.com/viewtopic.php?p=617856#p617856

https://youtu.be/DTccCQV-i0E

Is this similar to what you're experiencing?

yeah your battery is defective (bad cells) but the programming they designed for the car is avoiding showing it until some metric we don't know so they don't have to warranty them.

I have 3 years left on my battery warranty so I guess all I can do is drive it as much as I can until the problem is extreme enough to pass whatever metric they designed to avoid warrantying batteries.

otherwise $700 to drop the battery and if they decree nothing wrong I am out $700 WORSE if they decree its unsafe to put back in but also not warrantied I am not stuck with a paperweight. its very very unethical this process but I can't think of a way around it.

I can only go about 47 miles but the GOM says 10 bars of battery capacity which is a farce.

nerys said:

... its very very unethical this process but I can't think of a way around it. ...

Click to expand...

It's not unethical for Nissan to decline repair of rodent damage for free, or to refuse installation of a battery in dangerous condition but these are still hypotheticals at this point. As for other means, if you provide cell voltage histograms, some folks here could advise regarding cell conditions or how best to proceed.

There is no rodent damage is the most likely answer they were just preparing for a way of declining a warranty at the user's expense

Because his answer was I can't tell if there's rodent damage but pay a $700 and we might paperweight your car and we can tell you

I call that unethical

It's one thing to risk $700 and get my car back it's another thing to risk $700 and then for them to hand me two giant pieces of useless machinery that I have to somehow figure out how to get home?

To me it looked like they were trying to find a reason to decline the warranty especially because when I brought it in the first time for this issue it was under the 5-year 60,000 mile warranty and they said it's normal there's nothing wrong

Now that we're outside the 5-year 60,000 mile warranty with the exact same issue now they're cleaning these new conditions so yes I consider that unethical

Nubo said:

nerys said:

... its very very unethical this process but I can't think of a way around it. ...

Click to expand...

It's not unethical for Nissan to decline repair of rodent damage for free, or to refuse installation of a battery in dangerous condition but these are still hypotheticals at this point. As for other means, if you provide cell voltage histograms, some folks here could advise regarding cell conditions or how best to proceed.

Click to expand...

My understanding is that Nissan will not recognize information from Leaf Spy or any other 3rd party app as valid. So I don't think providing cell voltage histograms to Nissan will help very much. We're pretty much at the mercy of what Nissan will do for diagnosis. Nissan could provide authorized diagnostic tools, like Leaf Spy, to Nissan service locations to make the diagnosis simple. However, I don't think Nissan has any incentive to do this, other than from a longer term PR perspective. I think they've taken a policy of giving the customer a "path of most resistance" to battery replacement. I wouldn't be surprised at all if Nissan's BMS update sets a more restrictive set of conditions to generate the error codes that indicate a "defective" battery. If Nissan had a tool that quickly and easily shows battery defects, like Leaf Spy, they would likely be replacing a lot more batteries. Nissan's approach, however "unethical", makes sense when you think about the money that's a stake.

SLC17Leaf said:

My understanding is that Nissan will not recognize information from Leaf Spy or any other 3rd party app as valid. So I don't think providing cell voltage histograms to Nissan will help very much. ...

Click to expand...

No, not to Nissan, but to forum members here, to advise on the true state of the battery and if seeking Nissan warranty replacement, they may offer advice on how to best proceed within that system.

SLC17Leaf said:

My understanding is that Nissan will not recognize information from Leaf Spy or any other 3rd party app as valid. So I don't think providing cell voltage histograms to Nissan will help very much. We're pretty much at the mercy of what Nissan will do for diagnosis. Nissan could provide authorized diagnostic tools, like Leaf Spy, to Nissan service locations to make the diagnosis simple. However, I don't think Nissan has any incentive to do this, other than from a longer term PR perspective. I think they've taken a policy of giving the customer a "path of most resistance" to battery replacement. I wouldn't be surprised at all if Nissan's BMS update sets a more restrictive set of conditions to generate the error codes that indicate a "defective" battery. If Nissan had a tool that quickly and easily shows battery defects, like Leaf Spy, they would likely be replacing a lot more batteries. Nissan's approach, however "unethical", makes sense when you think about the money that's a stake.

Click to expand...

Of course Nissan dealers will not recognize data from Leaf Spy and Nissan corporate won't authorize pack or module replacements from that, but using Leaf Spy, one can see if there's a major imbalance at not very low SoC. Nissan has a CVLI test and one could try to run the equivalent of that using Leaf Spy. Google for site:mynissanleaf.com cvli.

For example, if the delta between the highest and lowest cell is over say 100 mV at 40% or above SoC, something is very very wrong.

They ran their test and refuse to run any other test without dropping the battery pack. the problem is dropping the battery pack could cost me everything. its over $700 and if they decide it can't be put back in safely they will refuse to do so without me paying $8000 for a new battery which I can not afford. ever.

Otherwise I will have an immobilized car and useless battery as two separate parts to "haul" home somehow and now I will be out the over $700 and out the CAR entirely.

Its clear they don't want to warranty replace a battery or eat the cost of a test for a warranty coverage period battery I even showed them video of the car turtling at 70mph with a full charge !!! did not matter. its also clear they are "setting up" the conditions to deny a claim AND leave me stranded with their " we see what might be rodent damage " BS statement.

IE they think they are going to force me to buy a battery and don't realize "I CAN NOT AFFORD ONE" so they would just be destroying my car.

I can't even get them to commit to rodent damage. My Comprehensive insurance will COVER the battery if the dealer hands me a $8000 bill with "rodent damage" on it. but I have to have that FIRST before they drop the battery. I CAN NOT be left without a car and with a $700 bill.

I asked them can ANYTHING ELSE besides rodent damage that would not be covered under warranty result in you being unable to reinstall the battery? and they won't even give me a yes or no on that!! so I can't do anything at all. I MUST have an out path that either results in new battery or results in me being able to drive the car home. no other path is acceptable.

I am in a very "stuck" situation and I don't know how to resolve it with that well positioned "potential rodent damage" excuse they created.

I can't even go into Albuquerque any longer. RT to the edge of ABQ is 44 miles. I have a range of 47 if I take it REAL SLOW coming back up the mountain. ie 40-45mph slow or the draw kicks the BMS limits into effect and I won't have enough power to finish the climb.

I wonder. can I extend the 5/60 warranty? I only have 45k on the car. would that then cover something like this?

cwerdna said:

SLC17Leaf said:

My understanding is that Nissan will not recognize information from Leaf Spy or any other 3rd party app as valid. So I don't think providing cell voltage histograms to Nissan will help very much. We're pretty much at the mercy of what Nissan will do for diagnosis. Nissan could provide authorized diagnostic tools, like Leaf Spy, to Nissan service locations to make the diagnosis simple. However, I don't think Nissan has any incentive to do this, other than from a longer term PR perspective. I think they've taken a policy of giving the customer a "path of most resistance" to battery replacement. I wouldn't be surprised at all if Nissan's BMS update sets a more restrictive set of conditions to generate the error codes that indicate a "defective" battery. If Nissan had a tool that quickly and easily shows battery defects, like Leaf Spy, they would likely be replacing a lot more batteries. Nissan's approach, however "unethical", makes sense when you think about the money that's a stake.

Click to expand...

Of course Nissan dealers will not recognize data from Leaf Spy and Nissan corporate won't authorize pack or module replacements from that, but using Leaf Spy, one can see if there's a major imbalance at not very low SoC. Nissan has a CVLI test and one could try to run the equivalent of that using Leaf Spy. Google for site:mynissanleaf.com cvli.

For example, if the delta between the highest and lowest cell is over say 100 mV at 40% or above SoC, something is very very wrong.

Click to expand...

I hear what you are saying. However, the issue here is not trying to identify the problem. Everyone here knows what these battery issues are, my local service department stated that there are bad cells/modules, Nissan corporate/engineering knows there are bad cells. Everyone is well aware. We as consumers could know all the details , information and data on the bad cells and it wouldn't make any difference at the end of the day when it comes to replacing the battery under warranty. The real issue is getting Nissan to do a reasonable and sufficient diagnosis of these bad batteries. They could put tools and systems in place to do this, but they chose not to. Instead, we have to try to get these cars to fail to a point where they meet the thresholds Nissan has established within their dysfunctional system. When I hear myself explaining to other people what I have to do, to prove to Nissan that the battery is bad (again something that is evident to all and common), it sounds totally ludicrous. I'm actually surprised there is no mention of class action lawsuits against Nissan for these issues. It's clearly a safety issue when you consider the dangerous situations these cars could leave you in.

THIS. the tech agree's the battery is bad. but until a "box/trigger" is ticked in their computer system and its STRICT guidelines even if they KNOW its bad. they won't/can't do anything and that's on nissan.

Again, there's the CVLI test. The voltages are likely different for 30 kWh packs than 24 kWh. If you can simulate running it but using Leaf Spy, and get it to fail in the same way, then the dealer should be able to run CVLI test and get it to fail w/Consult III plus.

can they run that test without dropping the battery?

nerys said:

can they run that test without dropping the battery?

Click to expand...

Yes.

https://www.mynissanleaf.com/viewtopic.php?t=16070 was has some chatter about the procedure for 24 kWh Leafs.

Dala, who has lots of Leaf technical knowledge at https://www.mynissanleaf.com/viewtopic.php?p=548651#p548651 points to his post at http://www.japtoys.net/forum/viewtopic.php?f=10&t=3613. There's no way that 153 mV imbalance is normal at 88% SoC.

https://www.mynissanleaf.com/viewtopic.php?t=30380 mentions 138 mV imbalance at 47.8% SoC, which is way too high for that SoC level.

https://www.mynissanleaf.com/viewtopic.php?p=457964#p457964 is a pretty big imbalance but at very low SoC. JeremyW got denied but BiggieJohn was able to get it fixed.

When I still had my 24 kWh Leaf, I don't recall seeing imbalance above 30ish mV at "normal" state of charge (say 30+%) while in Park. I generally didn't run mine very low. At very very low SoC, I guess big imbalance is "normal" and not necessarily indicative of defect, at least based upon what Turbo3 told me in person (https://mynissanleaf.com/viewtopic.php?p=447143#p447143). At last check, he and I live near each other. I unfortunately last saw him in person years ago at some EVent.

FINALLY found the damned dongle. ran leafspy

https://drive.google.com/drive/folders/13YsA1IGtQJo_pqpmnSb_GxNFOpU_7FtA?usp=sharing

122mv delta at 60% SOC while commanding 20-30kwh from the drive unit. SOH just over 70% but insists on 10 bars. something is very very wrong. I will try to run it again at low charge.

I can not "run it hard" for you however IE floor it. that will cause a complete shut down and disconnect of the battery pack which will result in me needing a TOW (which I am running out of) to get it home and plug it into the EVSE which is the only way to "reset" it and bring it back to life once that happens.

Seems to me a complete shutdown on the road is a warranty event, regardless of any other specs. If the battery can't supply the load, it's defective by definition.

you would think so. but how do you compel them to comply?

BTW newest screen cap. managed to get an over 200mv delta at 47% SOC (its in the folder)