alozzy
Well-known member
More than likely, this will be my next EV
salyavin said:Why are you spooked? Do you think CHAdeMO will go away tomorrow? I expect at least 10 years.
Also may I ask how far you drive your LEAF? If you just drive around the metro area you don't need DCFC at all IMHO. I drive up to Fort Collins or down to Colorado Springs all off my home charging (I have a plus). I need CHAdeMO when I go to Telluride, Moab, or the like. Nearer camping an RV outlet is plenty. If you don't go so far CHAdeMO could disappear tomorrow and the car would be fine. Why not use the car for a decade and not worry about resale value?
I think that for you the real question is who gets you to autonomous driving? For your wife that could be the kicker. Value of a used Leaf is minimal and most of that value is lost in the first 3-4 years. CHADEMO is going away but for a car used mostly in town, DCFC is not a big deal. A 5 year old Leaf isn't likely to be driven cross-country anyway. If you keep the Leaf for a couple of years more, you won't lose a lot more to depreciation and you will have a wider selection of EV's to choose from. Maybe even the rumored $25K Tesla 2. On the other hand, you can tow with a model Y now or wait for the Cybertruck. If autonomous driving isn't that important to you, keep the Leaf and drive it into the ground then buy something that fits your current needs. If you think that the autonomous driving feature could be useful, then buy a 3 or Y and trade the Leaf in.frontrangeleaf said:Great input you guys, thanks. In practice, I have yet to charge away from home to date. We have other cars for over-the-road trips, which more often than not involve towing the camper or traveling to a trailhead. We have taken the Leaf as far as Ft Collins and back in the same day. No charging needed. We are also on Xcel's time-of-use plan, so overnight charging is dirt cheap.
I am spooked mostly around market perceptions. Whether Chademo goes away overnight or not (not expecting that myself), the perception that it's a dead end doesn't help resale value. I am also thinking that the EV market is evolving quickly, and we most likely won't keep the Leaf as long as we have our other vehicles.
We normally keep our cars a good long time (although not forever) - this is kind of new for us. But we have 3 vehicles and just me as the driver right now. By any reasonable standard, that's pretty extravagant. We don't even drive that much anymore due to my wife's condition. Everything is paid off, so yes, we could stand pat. But depreciation, insurance and annual registrations add up. So the background around my wife's situation is also driving my thinking. If I'm going to sell the Leaf anyway, then now's the time. If we don't stay in our current home and downsize, there will be a lot of hard decisions ahead of us.
I foresee a time when we have just the roadster and 1 other car - an EV that is capable of easily traveling cross-country, but not for towing. The question is whether that happens this year or in more like 5. After much thought I've decided to keep the roadster until it gets cranky. It's 14 years old now, but has just 26k miles.
Sagebrush, I appreciate your perspective on the differences in fast charging. I know you're familiar with both. Salyavin, appreciate your local insights. Thanks again.
johnlocke said:I think that for you the real question is who gets you to autonomous driving? For your wife that could be the kicker. Value of a used Leaf is minimal and most of that value is lost in the first 3-4 years. CHADEMO is going away but for a car used mostly in town, DCFC is not a big deal. A 5 year old Leaf isn't likely to be driven cross-country anyway. If you keep the Leaf for a couple of years more, you won't lose a lot more to depreciation and you will have a wider selection of EV's to choose from. Maybe even the rumored $25K Tesla 2. On the other hand, you can tow with a model Y now or wait for the Cybertruck. If autonomous driving isn't that important to you, keep the Leaf and drive it into the ground then buy something that fits your current needs. If you think that the autonomous driving feature could be useful, then buy a 3 or Y and trade the Leaf in.frontrangeleaf said:Great input you guys, thanks. In practice, I have yet to charge away from home to date. We have other cars for over-the-road trips, which more often than not involve towing the camper or traveling to a trailhead. We have taken the Leaf as far as Ft Collins and back in the same day. No charging needed. We are also on Xcel's time-of-use plan, so overnight charging is dirt cheap.
I am spooked mostly around market perceptions. Whether Chademo goes away overnight or not (not expecting that myself), the perception that it's a dead end doesn't help resale value. I am also thinking that the EV market is evolving quickly, and we most likely won't keep the Leaf as long as we have our other vehicles.
We normally keep our cars a good long time (although not forever) - this is kind of new for us. But we have 3 vehicles and just me as the driver right now. By any reasonable standard, that's pretty extravagant. We don't even drive that much anymore due to my wife's condition. Everything is paid off, so yes, we could stand pat. But depreciation, insurance and annual registrations add up. So the background around my wife's situation is also driving my thinking. If I'm going to sell the Leaf anyway, then now's the time. If we don't stay in our current home and downsize, there will be a lot of hard decisions ahead of us.
I foresee a time when we have just the roadster and 1 other car - an EV that is capable of easily traveling cross-country, but not for towing. The question is whether that happens this year or in more like 5. After much thought I've decided to keep the roadster until it gets cranky. It's 14 years old now, but has just 26k miles.
Sagebrush, I appreciate your perspective on the differences in fast charging. I know you're familiar with both. Salyavin, appreciate your local insights. Thanks again.
salyavin said:I do get the downsizing, actually it is very relevant to me as I am involved in the 2nd downsizing for my elderly father up in Fort Collins. For vehicles we are getting rid of his 42 year old RV, and his pickup truck leaving him with a Corolla only.
On CHAdeMO affecting the resale value of the LEAF I really don't think it makes that difference. Most "normal" people have no idea about CCS or CHAdeMO or future trends. That said the LEAF loses value very quickly especially in the first few years so your feeling about selling soon does make good sense if you don't plan to keep it long term. You are right to sell the LEAF now if you don't plan to keep it.
The roadster would certainly be more fun and gives you access to the supercharger network. It may cost more to fix if something goes wrong though if that is a consideration. The roadster will have less driver assist than even your LEAF I believe.
OK, so you keep the gasser for towing and you've got an SL+ for everything else. The roadster is just for fun. If the Leaf is paid for, I'd keep the SL+ and drive it into the ground. There's little maintenance and electricity is cheap. If you do need to take a cross-country trip, take the gasser for that as well. How many cross-country trips would you take without the trailer anyway?frontrangeleaf said:johnlocke said:I think that for you the real question is who gets you to autonomous driving? For your wife that could be the kicker. Value of a used Leaf is minimal and most of that value is lost in the first 3-4 years. CHADEMO is going away but for a car used mostly in town, DCFC is not a big deal. A 5 year old Leaf isn't likely to be driven cross-country anyway. If you keep the Leaf for a couple of years more, you won't lose a lot more to depreciation and you will have a wider selection of EV's to choose from. Maybe even the rumored $25K Tesla 2. On the other hand, you can tow with a model Y now or wait for the Cybertruck. If autonomous driving isn't that important to you, keep the Leaf and drive it into the ground then buy something that fits your current needs. If you think that the autonomous driving feature could be useful, then buy a 3 or Y and trade the Leaf in.frontrangeleaf said:Great input you guys, thanks. In practice, I have yet to charge away from home to date. We have other cars for over-the-road trips, which more often than not involve towing the camper or traveling to a trailhead. We have taken the Leaf as far as Ft Collins and back in the same day. No charging needed. We are also on Xcel's time-of-use plan, so overnight charging is dirt cheap.
I am spooked mostly around market perceptions. Whether Chademo goes away overnight or not (not expecting that myself), the perception that it's a dead end doesn't help resale value. I am also thinking that the EV market is evolving quickly, and we most likely won't keep the Leaf as long as we have our other vehicles.
We normally keep our cars a good long time (although not forever) - this is kind of new for us. But we have 3 vehicles and just me as the driver right now. By any reasonable standard, that's pretty extravagant. We don't even drive that much anymore due to my wife's condition. Everything is paid off, so yes, we could stand pat. But depreciation, insurance and annual registrations add up. So the background around my wife's situation is also driving my thinking. If I'm going to sell the Leaf anyway, then now's the time. If we don't stay in our current home and downsize, there will be a lot of hard decisions ahead of us.
I foresee a time when we have just the roadster and 1 other car - an EV that is capable of easily traveling cross-country, but not for towing. The question is whether that happens this year or in more like 5. After much thought I've decided to keep the roadster until it gets cranky. It's 14 years old now, but has just 26k miles.
Sagebrush, I appreciate your perspective on the differences in fast charging. I know you're familiar with both. Salyavin, appreciate your local insights. Thanks again.
Thanks, John. Being in IT, you can color me skeptical on autonomous driving really getting to the level of maturity necessary to be useful to my wife in the city. Happy to be wrong about that. She would be hard pressed to intervene in a timely manner when something goes wrong. I think we're at least 5 years away, and maybe more like 10.
Towing with an EV is not really an option where we live on the Front Range. Our Q5 TDI has the equivalent of a ~300 kwh battery after accounting for differences in thermal efficiency of EV vs diesel drivetrains, one that would weigh no more than current 80 kwh batteries, meaning we would need to see a 3-4x improvement in energy density/kilogram for that to be viable. I don't see that happening in the near future. Can you tow? Sure. But you're stopping an awful lot, and the charging infrastructure just isn't set up for a vehicle + trailer. We'll stick to the Q5 for as long as we own the camper.
DougWantsALeaf said:3 months puts you close to when Ariya will be available.
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