What is going to be your next EV?

salyavin said:

SageBrush said:

I consider myself fortunate (and a lot more lucky than smart) I never bought a diesel. It was probably mostly a case of being VW adverse in general.

What does the Model 3 offer you where the LEAF fails ? My guess is the charging network ...

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Yea, I was in danger of a "clean diesel" years ago.
... but my speedy Honda got accordioned so I got the Prius.

Model 3 hmm I prefer a LEAF but the Model 3 has a little more range, battery cooling (I have redlined and rapidgated a plus on road trips), a Model 3 is faster (I don't need that), with a CHAdeMO adapter access to the same chargers I have plus the Supercharge network so yes more charging options, better self driver assist than propilot, better resale value.

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I sold my Honda Civic for a Prius in 2004
I stayed in the Prius camp through the Prime and only left for the Model 3. I'm not going back

The range of Tesla EVs is understated in winter climates. Until other EV manufacturers catch up to the Tesla heat pump and Octovalve, Tesla has a significant advantage, on the order of 10% more range in the winter for equivalent battery size.

Does the Mach-E have a heat pump? I seem to remember Ford decided not to invest in one. So the extended range 300 mile Premium sounds good on paper, but I wonder what the winter range will be?

The Mach-E as described is $53.1k. Including a 7500 fed credit, -> 45.6k. Lets go ahead and say the 4100 dealer discount from Alex on Autos is real -> $41.5k. That's for rear wheel drive, no local credits or rebates.

The AWD Model Y with more range and heat pump is 49.9k correct?
But if the 7k fed tax credit comes back, it will be 42.9k.

To me $42.9k for the model Y AWD versus 41.5k for the MachE RWD is an easy choice, and I've given the Ford extra discounts you might not really get. I keep seeing Ford advertisement talking about the largest charging network but I have no idea what drug they are on.

IF the fed credit comes back I see this comparison as an easy choice given the charging networks and range and heat pump. I do like the inside though of the mach-E. YMMV.

danrjones said:

Does the Mach-E have a heat pump? I seem to remember Ford decided not to invest in one. So the extended range 300 mile Premium sounds good on paper, but I wonder what the winter range will be?

The Mach-E as described is $53.1k. Including a 7500 fed credit, -> 45.6k. Lets go ahead and say the 4100 dealer discount from Alex on Autos is real -> $41.5k. That's for rear wheel drive, no local credits or rebates.

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Huh? https://www.ford.com/suvs/mach-e/ says Mach-E starts at $42,895 MSRP before $7.5K tax credit.

The premium trim is $47K before tax credit.

cwerdna said:

danrjones said:

Does the Mach-E have a heat pump? I seem to remember Ford decided not to invest in one. So the extended range 300 mile Premium sounds good on paper, but I wonder what the winter range will be?

The Mach-E as described is $53.1k. Including a 7500 fed credit, -> 45.6k. Lets go ahead and say the 4100 dealer discount from Alex on Autos is real -> $41.5k. That's for rear wheel drive, no local credits or rebates.

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Huh? https://www.ford.com/suvs/mach-e/ says Mach-E starts at $42,895 MSRP before $7.5K tax credit.

The premium trim is $47K before tax credit.

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Premium plus extended battery is 53.1k msrp. I was trying to compare similar specs.

And actually, with price adjustment Tesla just did (today?) there is now a $10,000 gap between Y SR+ and LR AWD. It almost looks like Tesla is making room for the model Y LR RWD they just announced they wouldn't make....

Bjorn Nyland hosts a Google Sheet on his youtube channel that includes all of his very well done testing on a host of EVs. Lately he has been testing winter range. It really is must review before any purchase. Below, I've pulled out the tests that were winter cold, 120 kph speed, and wet roads, sorted by Wh/km. People can convert to their favorite units, or just consider the relative differences.

Here is my copy of Bjorn's data. The Ark 9 tab is a better formatted version of the data below
https://docs.google.com/spreadsheets/d/1YK--UDpkfK_UfoFhV4tDgyQP1C9GrDPHN3S0rQaicPI/edit?usp=sharing

tl;dr
The e-tron has *1.5x* the Wh/km consumption as the Model 3 2021 LR


Wh/km Car Tires
206 Hyundai Ioniq 28 kWh Nokian R3
208 Tesla Model 3 LR 2021 Nokian R3
219 Tesla Model 3 Performance 2021 Frigus EV Ice 3
251 Mitsubishi i-MiEV Continental VC6
256 Hyundai Kona 64 kWh Nokian R3
257 Xpeng G3 520i Nokian R3
268 Kia Soul 30 kWh Nokian R3
274 Mazda MX-30 Continental VC7
305 Jaguar I-Pace EV320 Continental VC7
311 Jaguar I-Pace 90 kWh Continental VC6
321 Audi e-tron 55 Nokian R3
322 Volvo XC40 Continental VC7
327 Nissan e-NV200 40 kWh Continental VC6

danrjones said:

And actually, with price adjustment Tesla just did (today?) there is now a $10,000 gap between Y SR+ and LR AWD. It almost looks like Tesla is making room for the model Y LR RWD they just announced they wouldn't make....

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Fingers crossed !

I'm at my Nissan dealer for regular service and walked around. Kia dealer is out of Niro Evs. They usually have several so I find that odd. Hyundai dealer has about 8 or 9 Kona Evs. All 2021. Nice but just as small or smaller than my Leaf. VW said their id4 was suppose to be here last month. But the are saying it really will be on the floor next month Really!

The Nissan dealer has one 2019 SV plus never sold. Their chargers are all broken and covered. And when I told them my door doesn't seem to be closing properly they surprised me saying adjustments are only covered for one year and we're going to charge me $145. So much for bumper to bumper warranty. I get the feeling this Nissan dealer does not have their heart into EVs. Ymmv.

Oh, and I have to charge to get home. That's at the Honda dealer. Who doesn't even have any evs.

danrjones said:

I'm at my Nissan dealer for regular service and walked around. Kia dealer is out of Niro Evs. They usually have several so I find that odd. Hyundai dealer has about 8 or 9 Kona Evs. All 2021. Nice but just as small or smaller than my Leaf. VW said their id4 was suppose to be here last month. But the are saying it really will be on the floor next month Really!

The Nissan dealer has one 2019 SV plus never sold. Their chargers are all broken and covered. And when I told them my door doesn't seem to be closing properly they surprised me saying adjustments are only covered for one year and we're going to charge me $145. So much for bumper to bumper warranty. I get the feeling this Nissan dealer does not have their heart into EVs. Ymmv.

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I would agree, my dealer in Yonkers, NY has only 1 tech trained on the Leaf.
I found out the hard way by making an appt online for Saturday to arrive and find out he does not work on weekends.
Fortunately, the car has been maintenance free.

I want to see the ariya but can't imagine this dealer wants to sell it.

The Nissan dealer has one 2019 SV plus never sold. Their chargers are all broken and covered. And when I told them my door doesn't seem to be closing properly they surprised me saying adjustments are only covered for one year and we're going to charge me $145. So much for bumper to bumper warranty. I get the feeling this Nissan dealer does not have their heart into EVs. Ymmv.

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I can't be certain that they are lying, but my feeling is that they are. Call the Nissan EV hotline and confirm with them. I don't have the number handy.

SageBrush said:

frontrangeleaf said:

Interesting question. Looking at making some changes this year.

We bought the Leaf SL+ looking for a relatively inexpensive car to learn about EVs. It’s been a fine car, and we like it a lot. But due to a series of medical problems we’re going to go down to 2 cars from 3. So both the roadster and the Leaf will be finding new homes. The GTI became a used xTerra for our son.

I am looking at a refresh (2021) model 3 LR AWD. We’ll see. Test drove one last weekend. Addresses many of my prior concerns.

I’ve been considering the Ariya, ID4, and Q4 Etron. Not sure I’m willing to wait. Don’t actually need another SUV. Want something fun to drive like the roadster but more practical like the Leaf as a second car, with advanced driver aids.

We’ll keep the Q5 as a tow vehicle until we sell the camper. Haven’t been using that much so it may go too.

I’ve been pondering this for a while. Feeling better having some direction.

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I consider myself fortunate (and a lot more lucky than smart) I never bought a diesel. It was probably mostly a case of being VW adverse in general.

What does the Model 3 offer you where the LEAF fails ? My guess is the charging network ...

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On the diesel, I love that thing - yes, the emissions scandal left a bad taste in our mouths, but they more than made us whole - 20% back on the purchase price of the car + emissions fix + 10yr/120k mile warranty on everything emissions related, including the entire fuel system, emissions, engine management and the valve train. So all in all, after monumentally screwing up (unbelievable!), they made it right. The Audi is by far the nicest ride we've ever owned, and likely will remain so. We get 20 mpg while towing our camper through the mountains. It's nearly as responsive as an EV, although not nearly as quiet, it's actually no worse than any other luxury ICE.

Edit: I might add that the emissions fix made no difference at all to our mileage or performance. It's state of the art now.

The model 3 offers a more versatile package as less of a "second car" and more of just a car. At the end of the day, though, it's really about combining the fun-to-drive aspects of our roadster with the EV advantages of the Leaf, in a more capable, more future-proof EV.

LeftieBiker said:

The Nissan dealer has one 2019 SV plus never sold. Their chargers are all broken and covered. And when I told them my door doesn't seem to be closing properly they surprised me saying adjustments are only covered for one year and we're going to charge me $145. So much for bumper to bumper warranty. I get the feeling this Nissan dealer does not have their heart into EVs. Ymmv.

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I can't be certain that they are lying, but my feeling is that they are. Call the Nissan EV hotline and confirm with them. I don't have the number handy.

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Things like alignment of the front end is one of the 1yr things but I can kind of see that, someone could hit a big pothole or curb, damage you couldn't see, and Nissan would have to keep paying over and over for someone who wasn't careful where they drove. A door is an iffy thing, not a lot you could do to have caused it, I suppose if it got caught in the wind but it seems kind of sketchy to me.
I personally had my hatch gas shocks start leaking and would barely hold it up but I believe that was under a year and they replaced both, again not much I could have done to cause it other than use and normal use should be covered for 3yrs I'd hope. It would also make a difference in how the shop wrote it up, if they wrote it up user neglect or abuse it would be more likely to incur a charge, in my case the gas shocks were written up as defective so no charge, that and it was less than a year old.

SageBrush said:

Baltneu said:

SageBrush said:

What does the Model 3 offer you where the LEAF fails ? My guess is the charging network ...

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Charging network
Range
Newer technology

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I've owned a Tesla Model 3 for 3 years come June. I know the car pretty well

I was asking for specifics from someone who already owns a new-ish LEAF and is thinking of getting rid of it. That is a fairly unusual case. He did mention 'driver aids.' If that is AP then I get it. If it is AWD -- not so much. Proper tyres are by far the best solution for winter driving, not AWD. I outfit my Model 3 LR with winter tyres each season and it is a fantastic winter car. I presume the LEAF would also do quite well with proper tyres.

Of course AWD+winter tyres is the best possible, but that would be a corner case need even in CO

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You must have missed my many posts on the merits of snow tires. We run snows on all of our all weather cars - so everything but the roadster - on dedicated wheels. AWD isn't what I would consider a driver aid per se in today's world.

The investment in snows pays for itself even if you only avoid an accident you would have had once in 10 years. We've driven out of certain trouble on numerous occasions traveling to/from the mountains. Undecided whether I put snows on a future model 3. But having seen fwd cars hold up traffic on a hill they can't climb in light snow due to wearing the wrong tires, I'll probably spring for some.

Baltneu put it most succinctly:
Charging Network
Newer (more future proof) technology
Range

alozzy said:

You need better tires - Hakkapeliitta R3s have transformed my LEAF into a snow beast!

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Hakkas rock! We run those on the Audi.

I put Conti's on the Leaf, as they were much cheaper on sale.

danrjones said:

frontrangeleaf said:

Interesting question. Looking at making some changes this year.

We bought the Leaf SL+ looking for a relatively inexpensive car to learn about EVs. It’s been a fine car, and we like it a lot. But due to a series of medical problems we’re going to go down to 2 cars from 3. So both the roadster and the Leaf will be finding new homes. The GTI became a used xTerra for our son.

I am looking at a refresh (2021) model 3 LR AWD. We’ll see. Test drove one last weekend. Addresses many of my prior concerns.

I’ve been considering the Ariya, ID4, and Q4 Etron. Not sure I’m willing to wait. Don’t actually need another SUV. Want something fun to drive like the roadster but more practical like the Leaf as a second car, with advanced driver aids.

We’ll keep the Q5 as a tow vehicle until we sell the camper. Haven’t been using that much so it may go too.

I’ve been pondering this for a while. Feeling better having some direction.

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I wish Audi would hurry up with details on the Q4 etron, non sportback. Rumor is that it will start at 45k, and that would be super attractive with rebates and incentives. But will that be for a smaller battery pack or include the full size (84 kWh?) pack? Lots of questions I have. The Volvo XC40 ended up being a big disappointment and I've all but crossed that off my list, given its fat price tag a paltry range.

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Audi Q4 would be on the short list, not expecting to see it any time soon, and the range is likely to disappoint if the etron is any measure. Agree on the XC40. Right size, lots to like, but the range + lack of practical charge network limits it.

I'm gravitating to the model 3 largely due to disappointment with the competing charge networks build out. I'm not willing to work as hard as others here to find a charge point. I guess it's what you're used to, but I don't see myself adapting willingly to that. Too many horror stories for my taste.

It sounds like your dealer is not interested in supporting LEAFs. FWIW, the 3-year, 36,000-mile warranty should cover the door if something is actually wearing such as the latch or hinges. Adjustments to body panels, etc. are only covered for one year.

GerryAZ said:

It sounds like your dealer is not interested in supporting LEAFs. FWIW, the 3-year, 36,000-mile warranty should cover the door if something is actually wearing such as the latch or hinges. Adjustments to body panels, etc. are only covered for one year.

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Yep that's exactly what they said. I wasn't happy about it and they reduced the price by half. I actually was surprised by the reduction. Probably took their tech all of 5 minutes though. But as they didn't replace parts they said it was an adjustment.

Why did it even need adjusting...?
I have no idea.

danrjones said:

GerryAZ said:

It sounds like your dealer is not interested in supporting LEAFs. FWIW, the 3-year, 36,000-mile warranty should cover the door if something is actually wearing such as the latch or hinges. Adjustments to body panels, etc. are only covered for one year.

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Yep that's exactly what they said. I wasn't happy about it and they reduced the price by half. I actually was surprised by the reduction. Probably took their tech all of 5 minutes though. But as they didn't replace parts they said it was an adjustment.

Why did it even need adjusting...?
I have no idea.

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I am lucky to have a dealer 10 miles from home that really supports LEAFs. I don't anticipate any new EV's for a while unless Nissan decides to sell the van version here or someone else offers a compact cargo van with reasonable range and technical features.

I am lucky to have a dealer 10 miles from home that really supports LEAFs. I don't anticipate any new EV's for a while unless Nissan decides to sell the van version here or someone else offers a compact cargo van with reasonable range and technical features.

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You mean in AZ? The Ariya has a liquid cooled pack, so I would expect t see it sold even there.