The 62kWh Battery Topic

I've now had my Leaf Plus for a year, so here are a few notes about my battery.

Mileage: 14,200
Ahr: 168.57
SOH: 95.56%
Hx: 113.29%
Charging: 36 L3 and 158 L2

We've experienced four adjustments of the reported Ahr, approximately every 90 days: 1.0, 1.3, 1.37, and 0.25 Ahr.
My wife is the primary driver and generally plugs in when the battery is down to about 50%, then charges to 100%.

So, we've lost about 4.5% capacity in the first year. If we kept losing capacity at that rate I wouldn't be very happy, but it does look like the rate of loss slows after ~7000 miles. If I spread out the losses from each of the big drops evenly over the preceding 90 days, the rate of loss was 6.2 Ahr per 10,000 miles at first, slowing to 3.7 Ahr per 10,000 miles. If it continues at that rate, I expect to have ~77% capacity remaining after 100,000 miles when the battery warranty runs out. There are a lot of unknowns, so that's of course just my best guess at this point.

Astros said:

I've now had my Leaf Plus for a year, so here are a few notes about my battery.

Mileage: 14,200
Ahr: 168.57
SOH: 95.56%
Hx: 113.29%
Charging: 36 L3 and 158 L2

We've experienced four adjustments of the reported Ahr, approximately every 90 days: 1.0, 1.3, 1.37, and 0.25 Ahr.
My wife is the primary driver and generally plugs in when the battery is down to about 50%, then charges to 100%.

So, we've lost about 4.5% capacity in the first year. If we kept losing capacity at that rate I wouldn't be very happy, but it does look like the rate of loss slows after ~7000 miles. If I spread out the losses from each of the big drops evenly over the preceding 90 days, the rate of loss was 6.2 Ahr per 10,000 miles at first, slowing to 3.7 Ahr per 10,000 miles. If it continues at that rate, I expect to have ~77% capacity remaining after 100,000 miles when the battery warranty runs out. There are a lot of unknowns, so that's of course just my best guess at this point.

Click to expand...

Need to convince your wife to run SOC between 25 and 75%.

All,

Here is my next reading. Car purchased in June 2019, manufactured in May 2019. 7256 miles.

Previous
2/15/2020
SOH 95.78%
Ahr 169.96
Hx 112

Current
4/2/2020
SOH 95.72%
Ahr 168.85
Hx 111.56

I am expecting my next adjustment around the end of April.

DougWantsALeaf said:

All,

Here is my next reading. Car purchased in June 2019, manufactured in May 2019. 7256 miles.

Previous
2/15/2020
SOH 95.78%
Ahr 169.96
Hx 112

Current
4/2/2020
SOH 95.72%
Ahr 168.85
Hx 111.56

I am expecting my next adjustment around the end of April.

Click to expand...

Your ahr dropped over 1 but your SOH went down .06%? That is weird.

Here are a couple of data points from my car: Initial LEAF Spy reading at 64 miles on 8/11/2019: 175.15 AHr, 99.29% SOH, 98.19% Hx, 1 QC, 6 L1/L2, 64 ODO. Tonight at 14,164 miles on 4/2/2020: 172.77 AHr, 97.94% SOH, 113.77% Hx, 4 QC, 103 L1/L2, 14,164 ODO.

The car was manufactured in July 2019 and purchased on August 10, 2019 with 30 miles on the odometer (my dealer picked it up the day it was delivered to a dealer across town).

Edited to fix manufacture and delivery dates 2019, not 2020).

GerryAZ said:

Here are a couple of data points from my car: Initial LEAF Spy reading at 64 miles on 8/11/2019: 175.15 AHr, 99.29% SOH, 98.19% Hx, 1 QC, 6 L1/L2, 64 ODO. Tonight at 14,164 miles on 4/2/2020: 172.77 AHr, 97.94% SOH, 113.77% Hx, 4 QC, 103 L1/L2, 14,164 ODO.

The car was manufactured in July 2020 and purchased on August 10, 2020 with 30 miles on the odometer (my dealer picked it up the day it was delivered to a dealer across town).

Click to expand...

Must mean manufactured in 2019 not 2020? I know we live in weird times, but......

It looks like the cars now prefer the hot weather

GerryAZ said:

Here are a couple of data points from my car: Initial LEAF Spy reading at 64 miles on 8/11/2019: 175.15 AHr, 99.29% SOH, 98.19% Hx, 1 QC, 6 L1/L2, 64 ODO. Tonight at 14,164 miles on 4/2/2020: 172.77 AHr, 97.94% SOH, 113.77% Hx, 4 QC, 103 L1/L2, 14,164 ODO.

The car was manufactured in July 2020 and purchased on August 10, 2020 with 30 miles on the odometer (my dealer picked it up the day it was delivered to a dealer across town).

Click to expand...

What was your charging habits?

GerryAZ said:

Here are a couple of data points from my car: Initial LEAF Spy reading at 64 miles on 8/11/2019: 175.15 AHr, 99.29% SOH, 98.19% Hx, 1 QC, 6 L1/L2, 64 ODO. Tonight at 14,164 miles on 4/2/2020: 172.77 AHr, 97.94% SOH, 113.77% Hx, 4 QC, 103 L1/L2, 14,164 ODO.

The car was manufactured in July 2020 and purchased on August 10, 2020 with 30 miles on the odometer (my dealer picked it up the day it was delivered to a dealer across town).

Click to expand...

Good to have these Arizona numbers, thanks much for posting.

On the dates, I think you meant 2019, not 2020.

On the data discussion, I don't fully understand what I"m looking at, but it seems like they're holding up "pretty well" or "ok" for about 9 months and 14k miles. It would be really great if in the end the Leaf+ batteries do hold up in the heat, over several years and thousands of miles and dozens of vehicles. Some of us simply will not consider buying one until there is proof.

Well, given that during normal running, Tesla is quite comfortable at leaving its batteries at between 30 and 50 C, I think many of the newer chemistry are in their sweet spot at a higher temp.

This means that the chilly cold batteries in Canada and the American North will no longer have a longevity advantage....maybe its worse for them?

DougWantsALeaf said:

Well, given that during normal running, Tesla is quite comfortable at leaving its batteries at between 30 and 50 C, I think many of the newer chemistry are in their sweet spot at a higher temp.

This means that the chilly cold batteries in Canada and the American North will no longer have a longevity advantage....maybe its worse for them?

Click to expand...

An interesting question for sure. Having not gone thru a Summer yet, I have to hold comment. Another thing to consider; my charging is nearly all DC while his is nearly all AC. The other factor is the time element. But Gerry's car is beating me on that level as well. I think I need to see a few more adjustments first. Remember my first one was over 3% (my only one so far)

Agreed.

the cool DC charging vs. AC is going to be very interesting. I have 23 DC charges on my car, most were partial charges (and free). This next year will be very interesting to see how the batteries play out. I think one thing we are likely coming to conclusion on is that time more than mileage is a bigger factor. 50 or 1500 miles a month, it doesn't seem to matter.

DougWantsALeaf said:

Agreed.

the cool DC charging vs. AC is going to be very interesting. I have 23 DC charges on my car, most were partial charges (and free). This next year will be very interesting to see how the batteries play out. I think one thing we are likely coming to conclusion on is that time more than mileage is a bigger factor. 50 or 1500 miles a month, it doesn't seem to matter.

Click to expand...

Well have to ask what your definition of "partial" and "not partial" is. I haven't charged beyond 84% on DC and the 2nd highest would be 77%. Most of my charges end up between 65-70% with batt temps in the lower to mid 70's so my pack hasn't been very stressed in the classical sense.

I did try to check on Rapidgate twice so the pack has seen over 110º once, over 100º a few times but with that kind of range, its hard to need that much charge.

DougWantsALeaf said:

Well, given that during normal running, Tesla is quite comfortable at leaving its batteries at between 30 and 50 C, I think many of the newer chemistry are in their sweet spot at a higher temp.

This means that the chilly cold batteries in Canada and the American North will no longer have a longevity advantage....maybe its worse for them?

Click to expand...

Hi - as far as I know, it remains to be seen to what degree the Leaf battery will hold up in the heat.

Dave asked about my charging habits: I normally charge at night using my AeroVironment EVSE (rated 30 amperes) at nominal 240 volts (usually 242 to 248) at home. I sometimes charge at my workshop/garage using my Clipper Creek EVSE (rated 40 amperes) at nominal 208 volts (usually about 212 volts). In both cases, the car's onboard charger is the limiting factor. Almost all charges are to 100% SOC and I drive the car until the remaining range is less than I need for the next day. I was charging every 2 or 3 days, but teleworking has reduced my daily mileage the last month so now it is 4 to 6 days. It will be interesting to see what happens with my next 90-day AHr/SOH adjustment (should be about April 20) since I am driving less.

There have been a few times when I returned home late in the evening with the car deeply discharged. In some of those cases, the car was not fully charged by the time I left the next morning. I have discharged it to shutdown 3 times, extremely low battery warning 5 times, very low battery warning 9 times, and low battery warning 9 times. Shutdown is when the main contactor opens. I define extremely low battery as when the SOC % display on the dash goes to flashing --, very low battery warning as when the remaining distance (GOM) goes to flashing --, and low battery warning when the low battery dash display pops up and the GOM goes to flashing numbers.

I am careful to make sure the SOC is not higher than about 75% if the car will be parked for several days.

GerryAZ said:

I have discharged it to shutdown 3 times, extremely low battery warning 5 times, very low battery warning 9 times, and low battery warning 9 times. Shutdown is when the main contactor opens. I define extremely low battery as when the SOC % display on the dash goes to flashing --, very low battery warning as when the remaining distance (GOM) goes to flashing --, and low battery warning when the low battery dash display pops up and the GOM goes to flashing numbers.

I am careful to make sure the SOC is not higher than about 75% if the car will be parked for several days.

Click to expand...

Seems as if there's some dichotomy there, i.e. your concern about charging over 80%, but little concern about excessively discharging your battery.
You are aware that a frequent very low SOC affects degradation, right? This is typical of a Li battery, i.e. see what happens to your laptop, tablet,
or cell phone's battery capacity (run-time) when those batteries fully discharge frequently.

Made a quick video of my first quick charge with my 2019 Lear Plus, 62 kwh.

amazed how quick it charged...temps didn't get hot....here's the info....

https://youtu.be/hwQ-oprZGCE

lorenfb said:

GerryAZ said:

I have discharged it to shutdown 3 times, extremely low battery warning 5 times, very low battery warning 9 times, and low battery warning 9 times. Shutdown is when the main contactor opens. I define extremely low battery as when the SOC % display on the dash goes to flashing --, very low battery warning as when the remaining distance (GOM) goes to flashing --, and low battery warning when the low battery dash display pops up and the GOM goes to flashing numbers.

I am careful to make sure the SOC is not higher than about 75% if the car will be parked for several days.

Click to expand...

Seems as if there's some dichotomy there, i.e. your concern about charging over 80%, but little concern about excessively discharging your battery.
You are aware that a frequent very low SOC affects degradation, right? This is typical of a Li battery, i.e. see what happens to your laptop, tablet,
or cell phone's battery capacity (run-time) when those batteries fully discharge frequently.

Click to expand...

I have no concern about charging over 80% because I charge to 100% almost every charge cycle. I also have no concern about deep discharge as long as the car does not sit for extended time either fully charged or deeply discharged. I treated the 2011 and 2015 the same way except they were charged every night due to much less range. If you look at some of the older battery degradation threads on this forum, you will see the degradation of the original 2011 battery, replacement 2011 battery, and the 2015 battery were all either less or no worse than degradation experienced by others in my climate. The actual SOC that Nissan calls 100% (full charge) is somewhat less than 100% and what Nissan calls 0% (shutdown) is not completely discharged. I also routinely fully cycle the batteries in my laptops and iPad with good long-term results. I am typing this reply on my iPad2 that was new in March 2011 and still has plenty of run time.

Learjet said:

Made a quick video of my first quick charge with my 2019 Lear Plus, 62 kwh.

amazed how quick it charged...temps didn't get hot....here's the info....

https://youtu.be/hwQ-oprZGCE

Click to expand...

Read here;

https://mynissanleaf.com/viewtopic.php?f=9&t=28911&start=530#p581949

GerryAZ said:

I have no concern about charging over 80% because I charge to 100% almost every charge cycle. I also have no concern about deep discharge as long as the car does not sit for extended time either fully charged or deeply discharged. I treated the 2011 and 2015 the same way except they were charged every night due to much less range. If you look at some of the older battery degradation threads on this forum, you will see the degradation of the original 2011 battery, replacement 2011 battery, and the 2015 battery were all either less or no worse than degradation experienced by others in my climate. The actual SOC that Nissan calls 100% (full charge) is somewhat less than 100% and what Nissan calls 0% (shutdown) is not completely discharged. I also routinely fully cycle the batteries in my laptops and iPad with good long-term results. I am typing this reply on my iPad2 that was new in March 2011 and still has plenty of run time.

Click to expand...

So you feel that Nissan designed its BMS controller with margins to void somewhat problematic battery states, e.g. 25%> SOC >80%,
having an effect on degradation, right? Others on the MNL, e.g. DaveinOlyWA, have differing views and tend to observe the data
in the graphic posted as being applicable to the Leaf's battery.