flogger
Posts: 7
Joined: Fri Nov 22, 2019 9:03 am
Delivery Date: 21 Nov 2019

16AMP cable on 2013 w/QC package

Sun Nov 24, 2019 10:50 am

Sorry if this is answered in archives. I didn't find it when I searched.

I just bought a 2013 Leaf S with a QC package. It's my first electric vehicle and I don't have an EVSE or charging cable except for the original 110V cable that came with the car. I happen to have an unused 30AMP 220V breaker that's unused with just enough wire (~80 ft.) that all I need to do is reroute it to the garage. So for minimal cost I can add a 220V 20AMP outlet on a 30 AMP circuit, and then just plug in a 16AMP charging cable. I think this'll suffice for this car's needs. Worst case, I'd get something like a Zencar 16A charging cable with the adapter for both NEMA 5-50 (110 Volt) and NEMA 6-20 (220 Volt). If this solution doesn't work for our needs, the charging cable would become a spare trickle charge cable. My friend who had a 2014 Leaf and now a 2018 tells me that my car is dumb in terms of determining available charging rate, and using just a charging cable like this, the car's charger will try to draw 6.6KW instead of 3.84KW and trip my breaker. He usually knows what he's talking about, but this doesn't sound right to me. In fact, on page CH-10 of the owners manual, it says "The Genuine NISSAN charging equipment communicates with the vehicle before Li-ion battery charging starts. If this communication does not occur because other equipment is being used, the Li-ion battery will not charge.". I assume part of this communication is determining available amperage. What do you think? Will my cheapo approach work or will it trip the 30AMP breaker? I don't need to be sold on the benefits of faster charging. I understand it, but if it's not needed it's not needed. Oh, and part of why I'm not leaning towards a fancy EVSE with Wi-Fi and scheduling optimization and so forth is because electric rates here are relatively cheap - $0.094 per kWh and there's no peak/off peak rate change. Thanks in advance.

nlspace
Posts: 174
Joined: Mon Jun 05, 2017 10:21 pm
Delivery Date: 06 Jun 2017

Re: 16AMP cable on 2013 w/QC package

Sun Nov 24, 2019 11:58 am

i'm not familiar with the Zencar 16A cable, but if it sends the J17 72 pilot signal to indicate that it is limited to 16A, then the OBC will only draw that amount, and it won't trip the 30A breaker.

If you have a different EVSSE that allows 30A, then 6.6kW charging is going to draw ~30A from a 240vac outlet, so the breaker is being operated at it's full rating which is not normally done. It may not trip but it is not being used within code. A 40A breaker would be better in that it provides some thermal margin when used at 30A.

LeftieBiker
Moderator
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Delivery Date: 30 Apr 2018
Location: Upstate New York, US

Re: 16AMP cable on 2013 w/QC package

Sun Nov 24, 2019 1:21 pm

Yes, it's the EVSE that determines the load on the circuit, so your plan is ok. I suggest that, unless the wire is in great shape, you replace it with a thicker gauge, to allow you to run a 40-50 amp circuit, instead.
Scarlet Ember 2018 Leaf SL W/ Pro Pilot
2009 Vectrix VX-1 W/18 Leaf modules, & 3 EZIP E-bicycles.
BAFX OBDII Dongle
PLEASE don't PM me with Leaf questions. Just post in the topic that seems most appropriate.

jjeff
Posts: 2080
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Leaf Number: 422121
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Re: 16AMP cable on 2013 w/QC package

Sun Nov 24, 2019 3:51 pm

If you have a 30a breaker and at least 10 gauge wire you should be good for a 24a EVSE, no need to limit to a 16a EVSE. I'd get at least a 20a EVSE but better yet a 24a and use something like a L14-30 outlet which is nice and heavy duty.
Note you could just purchase a 24a EVSE but personally I'd look for a 30a model that can be de-rated for 24a, that way if you ever get a 40a circuit you can charge the max your Leaf can pull(27.5a or 6.6kwh).
Since your car has the 6.6kwh charger 27.5a is the max it can draw, if your EVSE is less it will only pull that whatever the max of the EVSE is, if you plug a 30a fixed EVSE into a 20a circuit it will try and draw 27.5a and quickly blow your breaker, IOW the car doesn't know you've plugged the 30a EVSE into an underpowered circuit but if your EVSE lets you dial down the amps it will only draw what you've set the EVSE for.
Juicebox makes some adjustable EVSEs as do other mfgs. Some just use jumpers, some adjust the amperage otherways and the modern Juiceboxes use a cell phone and internet connection to adjust the amps.
2012 SL purchased used 2/'16
2013 S w/QC purchased new
Juicebox Premium 60a L1/L2 EVSE, Ebusbar 16a L1/L2 EVSE
'12 EVSEupgrade'd 20a L1/L2 EVSE, '13 EVSEupgrade'd adjustable 6-20a L2, 6-13a L1 EVSE
Zencar 13, 20, 30a L1/L2 portable EVSE
GE Durastation 30a

Oilpan4
Posts: 1242
Joined: Wed Jan 09, 2019 10:51 pm
Delivery Date: 10 May 2018
Leaf Number: 004270

Re: 16AMP cable on 2013 w/QC package

Sun Nov 24, 2019 6:58 pm

You can mod your 120v charger to take 240v and it costs almost nothing.
Or get a 16a 240v duosida evse for around $175.

I do most of my charging with my cars original 12 amp granny charger that I modded for 240v.
2011 white SL leaf with 2014 batt.
Chargers: Panasonic brick moded for 240v, duosida 16a 240v and a 10kw setec portable CHAdeMO
Location: 88103

LeftieBiker
Moderator
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Re: 16AMP cable on 2013 w/QC package

Sun Nov 24, 2019 7:08 pm

Oilpan4 wrote:
Sun Nov 24, 2019 6:58 pm
You can mod your 120v charger to take 240v and it costs almost nothing.
Or get a 16a 240v duosida evse for around $175.
So for minimal cost I can add a 220V 20AMP outlet on a 30 AMP circuit, and then just plug in a 16AMP charging cable. I think this'll suffice for this car's needs. Worst case, I'd get something like a Zencar 16A charging cable with the adapter for both NEMA 5-50 (110 Volt) and NEMA 6-20 (220 Volt).
Scarlet Ember 2018 Leaf SL W/ Pro Pilot
2009 Vectrix VX-1 W/18 Leaf modules, & 3 EZIP E-bicycles.
BAFX OBDII Dongle
PLEASE don't PM me with Leaf questions. Just post in the topic that seems most appropriate.

Oilpan4
Posts: 1242
Joined: Wed Jan 09, 2019 10:51 pm
Delivery Date: 10 May 2018
Leaf Number: 004270

Re: 16AMP cable on 2013 w/QC package

Sun Nov 24, 2019 7:23 pm

I guess I should point out its against code to "add a receptacle" to an existing 30 amp circuit. These are dedicated circuits.
And it's also against code to remove a 30 amp receptacle and stick a 20 amp one in its place.

Take your 12 or 16 amp evse and stick a 30 amp plug on it.
2011 white SL leaf with 2014 batt.
Chargers: Panasonic brick moded for 240v, duosida 16a 240v and a 10kw setec portable CHAdeMO
Location: 88103

flogger
Posts: 7
Joined: Fri Nov 22, 2019 9:03 am
Delivery Date: 21 Nov 2019

Re: 16AMP cable on 2013 w/QC package

Mon Nov 25, 2019 9:00 am

Thanks for your help, everybody.
When I measured the existing wiring lengths more carefully I figured out it would have come up a few feet short of where I wanted to place the wall outlet. I've never liked using junction boxes, so I figured I didn't have a nearly free solution to this anymore. Therefore, I just went ahead and ordered everything to setup a 50 amp breaker, 6/3 stranded Nomex and a 14-50 outlet. Now to pick out an EVSE to go with it.

flogger
Posts: 7
Joined: Fri Nov 22, 2019 9:03 am
Delivery Date: 21 Nov 2019

Re: 16AMP cable on 2013 w/QC package

Mon Nov 25, 2019 9:05 am

Oilpan4,

I guess I could have been more clear. I was actually talking about replacing a dedicated receptable rather than adding to that circuit. Anyhow, it's a moot point as I went a different direction. Thanks.


Oilpan4 wrote:
Sun Nov 24, 2019 7:23 pm
I guess I should point out its against code to "add a receptacle" to an existing 30 amp circuit. These are dedicated circuits.
And it's also against code to remove a 30 amp receptacle and stick a 20 amp one in its place.

Take your 12 or 16 amp evse and stick a 30 amp plug on it.

goldbrick
Posts: 748
Joined: Tue Aug 01, 2017 3:33 pm
Delivery Date: 01 Aug 2017
Leaf Number: 311806
Location: Boulder, CO

Re: 16AMP cable on 2013 w/QC package

Mon Nov 25, 2019 11:55 am

flogger wrote:
Sun Nov 24, 2019 10:50 am
So for minimal cost I can add a 220V 20AMP outlet on a 30 AMP circuit, and then just plug in a 16AMP charging cable. I think this'll suffice for this car's needs.
That should be fine. The EVSE will communicate to the car that it can only supply 16A so the car's charger will only pull 16A. You might want to note on the receptacle that it is a 30A circuit although that is not required.

PS, most residential service is 240V these days...

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