LeftieBiker
Moderator
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Joined: Wed May 22, 2013 3:17 am
Delivery Date: 30 Apr 2018
Location: Upstate New York, US

Re: Decision time !

Fri May 08, 2020 4:14 pm

The reason that I discounted the 40kwh Leaf (and also the Ionic) is that when the weather gets really frigid, you're lucky to get 50% of the mild weather range, and heat pumps don't matter. Even 60% of the Ionic's range would be a little marginal. I was also allowing for degradation. With a 62KWH Leaf neither of those would ever be an issue.
Scarlet Ember 2018 Leaf SL W/ Pro Pilot
2009 Vectrix VX-1 W/18 Leaf modules, & 3 EZIP E-bicycles.
BAFX OBDII Dongle
PLEASE don't PM me with Leaf questions. Just post in the topic that seems most appropriate.

goldbrick
Posts: 827
Joined: Tue Aug 01, 2017 3:33 pm
Delivery Date: 01 Aug 2017
Leaf Number: 311806
Location: Boulder, CO

Re: Decision time !

Fri May 08, 2020 7:36 pm

^+1. My biggest surprise after 3 years of EV ownership is how much energy it takes to heat the inside of the car when it's really cold outside. ICE cars are relatively inefficient compared to EV's due to the amount of waste heat generated burning fuel but that waste heat comes in handy when the temps are well below freezing. This is very location specific of course, but since the OP in Canada it is certainly something to factor in.

Heat and steering wheel heaters go a long way to make things comfortable but the windshield still needs to be clear and since any battery is less efficient at cold temps and they all degrade with time, having a buffer of AHr's to start is safe bet.

HerdingElectrons
Posts: 182
Joined: Sat Sep 08, 2018 3:20 pm
Delivery Date: 17 Sep 2018
Location: Central Coast, Ca

Re: Decision time !

Sat May 09, 2020 8:04 am

Also a bigger battery pack allows you to keep the vehicle at a lower SOC the vast majority of the time which helps preserve the long term health of the battery pack.
2018 SL Pearl White 4.5/3.9 Warm/Cold weather

09/18, 01K mi: AHr= 114.52 / SOH= 99.20 / HX= 099.70%
04/19, 10K mi: Ahr= 111.45 / SOH= 96.54 / HX= 113.82%
11/19, 20K mi: Ahr= 107.44 / SOH= 93.07 / HX= 109.96%

powersurge
Posts: 1742
Joined: Wed Oct 21, 2015 10:24 am
Delivery Date: 06 Dec 2014
Location: Long Island, NY

Re: Decision time !

Sun May 10, 2020 5:02 am

I think the original poster has presented us with a very timely and complex question. I am referring to the fact that when a poster asks what car they should buy, we need to answer that question within the current world environment.

I have owned a Leaf from new for almost 6 years, and will keep it for as long as I can. However, I would not buy another new Leaf (or any EV) right now. EVs have become seriously over-priced, and underrepresented in car dealerships. Why would I pay a premium to buy an EV if dealers don't have them... And don't want them on their lots?

Not only that, but the Leaf (or any EV for that matter) has never grown in its market presence. Why own a low volume car when future replacement parts will be hard to get and expensive to buy?

This poster feels he has to make a "decision". Truth is, he does not HAVE to make a decision at this time. The American economy is in a state of limbo right now. I agree with another poster that they would not buy a new car at this time unless they suddenly had no car and needed transportation. I would not be in a pressure to buy a new car, and especially not a new EV in the next year. We do not know what the direction of the automotive industry will be in the near future, and especially what the evolution of EVs will be.

Also, the poster expects to pay "a premium" to help the environment. No one should feel they must "pay" to help the environment. Your personal behavior is not going to change anything. It is a drop in the ocean. You should make financial decisions based on your income and smart managing of your funds. If you want to help the environment - Take a bus or ride a bicycle. If you want to spend more or less $$$ that is your decision.

PS - NEVER BUY AN EXTENDED WARRANTY PLAN...

Jimfastcar
Posts: 3
Joined: Thu May 07, 2020 4:02 pm
Delivery Date: 11 May 2020

Re: Decision time !

Sun May 10, 2020 5:43 am

Many thoughtful responses, thanks all
Notably the post just above this one .....

DaveinOlyWA
Posts: 14820
Joined: Sat Apr 24, 2010 7:43 pm
Delivery Date: 16 Nov 2019
Leaf Number: 319862
Location: Olympia, WA
Contact: Website

Re: Decision time !

Sun May 10, 2020 6:42 am

Jimfastcar wrote:
Thu May 07, 2020 4:25 pm
I apologize because I expect that all the answers to my questions are in various threads, but I need to make a decision in the next very few days.
This will be my first electric car and I have been reading on the subject for several months. My decision to purchase an electric car is partly predicated on costs of operation but also my willingness to pay a reasonable premium as my contribution to the environment.
I live in a Condo building having sold our house, but we have 4 public use indoor L2 chargers and I will be installing one in my parking spot.
I have a deposit and have ordered a Tesla Model Y, but frankly am getting cold feet at the $ 25.000 difference with the Leaf SL Plus, and the reality that 90% + of my driving will be under 100 Km per day as I am retiring in a few months. I am 67 and have had my share of excitement in my life, so no need to blaze down the highway and compete with the youngsters. Prefer to bank my hard earned money.
Long winded intro, my apologies.
1. Winters - I live in Oakville (Toronto) Canada - how much range can I expect to lose ?
2. Tesla's are wonderful and exciting cars, but having done a lot of reading on Forums, etc, they really are a work in progress. Even though I am reasonably comfortable with technology, I really dont want to spend a lot of time fussing - are Leaf's reasonably get in and go year after year ?
3. We will still keep an ICE car for my wife, perhaps a plug in Hybrid in future for the very occasional longer trip; but on the rare occasions I might want to go further afield with the Leaf, are there options along the lines of the Tesla super chargers, ie, high power / fast charging ?
4.I test drove a basic model today as that was the Demo of my local dealer, but I will want to get the top model with the creature comforts, any concerns or advice on this inclination ?
5. Should I get a longer term warranty plan ? Can I expect 100,000 Km reasonably trouble-free ? I have driven 4 Infiniti's for 20 years without any problem whatsoever.

I will stop here so as not to overtax your patience, but if you can think of anything you might offer a complete novice it would be appreciated.
1) Its not how much to expect, its really how much do you want to lose. Its all about your tolerance to cold. I am guessing you can handle it but your wife can't. Unfortunately, you will have to go with the lowest common denominator in this case. Add some snow and you could lose half your range.

2) All EVs (in our price range) are works in progress. Its all about which work in progress you can live with. Its really kinda funny. EVs touted as super simple, ¼ the number of moving parts and systems over ICE'rs but all seem to fail down "badly" in one area or another. Some are compromises on price, others are simply unfathomable. As far as "just drive it?" the LEAF does very well on that. Some feel charge management is a hassle. I don't really see that. Its really nothing to maintain an SOC that is not too high or too low. More range makes it that much easier.

3) You have several charging options and those options are still growing. Get Plugshare. Its an app for your phone. It shows you where stations are. Filter it to remove the stations you cant or wont use. www.plugshare.com

4) Those options can really drive up the price. I opt to go the other way. The only thing I want is the surround view. The rest is not ready for prime time. I live in a mild climate so the hybrid heater isn't that much of a draw to me either.

5) "All" warranty plans are a bad idea no matter what car we are talking about. Now SEVERAL here will chime in about some POS they drove but you would have MUCH better odds of not a payoff but breaking even at a casino. The odds you are wasting your money is over 95%
2011 SL; 44,598 mi, 87% SOH. 2013 S; 44,840 mi, 91% SOH. 2016 S30; 29,413 mi, 99% SOH. 2018 S; 25,185 mi, SOH 92.23%. 2019 S Plus; 10,081 mi, 95.03% SOH
My Blog; http://daveinolywa.blogspot.com" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

LeftieBiker
Moderator
Posts: 14898
Joined: Wed May 22, 2013 3:17 am
Delivery Date: 30 Apr 2018
Location: Upstate New York, US

Re: Decision time !

Sun May 10, 2020 12:27 pm

4) Those options can really drive up the price. I opt to go the other way. The only thing I want is the surround view. The rest is not ready for prime time. I live in a mild climate so the hybrid heater isn't that much of a draw to me either.
Around View is only available as part of the 2020 (not before) Tech Package on the SV. I don't remember if it is standard or optional (SL Tech Package) on the SL, but at any rate you can't get an otherwise un-optioned car with it.
Scarlet Ember 2018 Leaf SL W/ Pro Pilot
2009 Vectrix VX-1 W/18 Leaf modules, & 3 EZIP E-bicycles.
BAFX OBDII Dongle
PLEASE don't PM me with Leaf questions. Just post in the topic that seems most appropriate.

DaveinOlyWA
Posts: 14820
Joined: Sat Apr 24, 2010 7:43 pm
Delivery Date: 16 Nov 2019
Leaf Number: 319862
Location: Olympia, WA
Contact: Website

Re: Decision time !

Sun May 10, 2020 2:48 pm

LeftieBiker wrote:
Sun May 10, 2020 12:27 pm
4) Those options can really drive up the price. I opt to go the other way. The only thing I want is the surround view. The rest is not ready for prime time. I live in a mild climate so the hybrid heater isn't that much of a draw to me either.
Around View is only available as part of the 2020 (not before) Tech Package on the SV. I don't remember if it is standard or optional (SL Tech Package) on the SL, but at any rate you can't get an otherwise un-optioned car with it.
Which is the reason I opted to go the other way. I get that some people want leather and what not but I never saw the allure and the price differences are extreme although I will say I am seeing great deals on 2019's right now and most of them are fully loaded versions but selling for less than a "nicely equipped" S Plus was going for 6 months ago.
2011 SL; 44,598 mi, 87% SOH. 2013 S; 44,840 mi, 91% SOH. 2016 S30; 29,413 mi, 99% SOH. 2018 S; 25,185 mi, SOH 92.23%. 2019 S Plus; 10,081 mi, 95.03% SOH
My Blog; http://daveinolywa.blogspot.com" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

powersurge
Posts: 1742
Joined: Wed Oct 21, 2015 10:24 am
Delivery Date: 06 Dec 2014
Location: Long Island, NY

Re: Decision time !

Mon May 11, 2020 3:23 am

DaveinOlyWA wrote:
Sun May 10, 2020 2:48 pm
LeftieBiker wrote:
Sun May 10, 2020 12:27 pm
4) Those options can really drive up the price. I opt to go the other way. The only thing I want is the surround view. The rest is not ready for prime time. I live in a mild climate so the hybrid heater isn't that much of a draw to me either.
Around View is only available as part of the 2020 (not before) Tech Package on the SV. I don't remember if it is standard or optional (SL Tech Package) on the SL, but at any rate you can't get an otherwise un-optioned car with it.
Which is the reason I opted to go the other way. I get that some people want leather and what not but I never saw the allure and the price differences are extreme although I will say I am seeing great deals on 2019's right now and most of them are fully loaded versions but selling for less than a "nicely equipped" S Plus was going for 6 months ago.
Greetings Mr. Dave,

Could you please give more information on your statement of "seeing great deals"...."less than a nicely equipped S"?

Where are you seeing the prices? Are they actually advertised? Have you gone to the dealer and asked for prices?

The reason that I ask is that I have never heard of a dealer that would give a highly discounted price on a car before you are seriously negotiating the price of the car.

When I have casually gone to the dealer and asked for a price, they have always told me the sticker price, or maybe a small amount below sticker.

I would really like to know how a person finds those $5,000 to $10,000 discounts that I see people claim on this site??

Thanks Dave.

DaveinOlyWA
Posts: 14820
Joined: Sat Apr 24, 2010 7:43 pm
Delivery Date: 16 Nov 2019
Leaf Number: 319862
Location: Olympia, WA
Contact: Website

Re: Decision time !

Mon May 11, 2020 11:24 am

powersurge wrote:
Mon May 11, 2020 3:23 am
DaveinOlyWA wrote:
Sun May 10, 2020 2:48 pm
LeftieBiker wrote:
Sun May 10, 2020 12:27 pm


Around View is only available as part of the 2020 (not before) Tech Package on the SV. I don't remember if it is standard or optional (SL Tech Package) on the SL, but at any rate you can't get an otherwise un-optioned car with it.
Which is the reason I opted to go the other way. I get that some people want leather and what not but I never saw the allure and the price differences are extreme although I will say I am seeing great deals on 2019's right now and most of them are fully loaded versions but selling for less than a "nicely equipped" S Plus was going for 6 months ago.
Greetings Mr. Dave,

Could you please give more information on your statement of "seeing great deals"...."less than a nicely equipped S"?

Where are you seeing the prices? Are they actually advertised? Have you gone to the dealer and asked for prices?

The reason that I ask is that I have never heard of a dealer that would give a highly discounted price on a car before you are seriously negotiating the price of the car.

When I have casually gone to the dealer and asked for a price, they have always told me the sticker price, or maybe a small amount below sticker.

I would really like to know how a person finds those $5,000 to $10,000 discounts that I see people claim on this site??

Thanks Dave.
Closer to you than me! One FB post from Maryland indicates a good price.
2011 SL; 44,598 mi, 87% SOH. 2013 S; 44,840 mi, 91% SOH. 2016 S30; 29,413 mi, 99% SOH. 2018 S; 25,185 mi, SOH 92.23%. 2019 S Plus; 10,081 mi, 95.03% SOH
My Blog; http://daveinolywa.blogspot.com" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

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