EPA range guides and differences between cars

My Nissan Leaf Forum

Help Support My Nissan Leaf Forum:

This site may earn a commission from merchant affiliate links, including eBay, Amazon, and others.

ydnas7

Well-known member
Joined
Sep 27, 2011
Messages
590
rangecalculation.gif

Both the Nissan and Honda were average of driving modes (ie econ and sport)
RAV4 EV was average of 80% and 100% charge
BMW 1 series was average of 2 different tyres

Ford Focus, Mitsu i-MiEV, Toyota Scion, Tesla S, Smart Fortwo seem all at full charge only.

the Toyota Scion had laughable range, the i-Miev > 50% more range than the Toyota! (38km vs 62km)

http://www.fueleconomy.gov/feg/download.shtml" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;
 
This is a helpful chart to have available. I'd like to see it include PHEV all-electric-range as well. That way for people who are mulling their options for a daily commuter, they can see which vehicles fall into their range needs.

I'd also like to see it represented with a bar-graph, to make comparisons between the different cars more easily. And what would be more interesting is to have the EPA range in one shade, but change the color to branch all the way out to the max range achievable, as well as another color showing the worst-case-scenario range.

I'd be happy to create it myself, but I'm not entirely sure of some of the numbers for best/worst case scenario on some of the cars.
 
Here's a chart like I was thinking.. I could fill this chart in and revise it more if people like it. The Leaf is an example where I could show minimum guaranteed range, EPA range, and maximum range.

range-chart-2_zpsdb8c91ee.png
 
The LEAF's EPA range number is only 75 miles is because they are averaging the range at 80% SOC and 100% SOC. How is that for confusing potential EV buyers? They are doing that for LEAF and Tesla because they both offer long life modes. I disagree with EPA's logic. It would make much more sense for them to publish the 100% range. If someone wants to know how far they would go on 80% just calculate it. Now the range numbers are going to be apples and oranges when customers try to compare.

I calculate the 100% range to be 83 miles (75/0.90). Nissan says it is 84 miles.

http://www.greencarreports.com/news...-75-mile-range-anticipated-in-new-test-by-epa
 
When ranked by EPA range, the LEASED Leaf is very good, the bought Leaf is so so.

eparanges.jpg


Nissan considers 100% to be acceptable in regards to their leases (and warranties), and Nissan is intentional about making LEASEs very good value.

(* 2013 LEAF is not yet in EPA FEGuide, so is estimated)
(* the 100% and 80% for LEAF and RAV 4 are also estimated)
 
kovalb said:
The LEAF's EPA range number is only 75 miles is because they are averaging the range at 80% SOC and 100% SOC. How is that for confusing potential EV buyers? They are doing that for LEAF and Tesla because they both offer long life modes. I disagree with EPA's logic. It would make much more sense for them to publish the 100% range. If someone wants to know how far they would go on 80% just calculate it. Now the range numbers are going to be apples and oranges when customers try to compare.

I calculate the 100% range to be 83 miles (75/0.90). Nissan says it is 84 miles.

All year LEAFs can absolutely go 84 miles, and if the EPA only wants one number, that should be it. Nobody is charging to 90%, so why we would want 90% data is beyond me (the 75 EPA miles being the average between 80% and 100% five cycle performance).

Having said that, there's little likelihood that the typical 3 year lease LEAF will have 84 miles of range in a five cycle test. Of all the cars, non-climate controlled Li battery cars are less likely to maintain capacity over the temperature extremes seen here in the USA.

75 is probably a fair number for the typical consumer.
 
adric22 said:
Here's a chart like I was thinking.. I could fill this chart in and revise it more if people like it. The Leaf is an example where I could show minimum guaranteed range, EPA range, and maximum range.
There really isn't a minimum gauranteed range. If you switch on the heater and let it sit, the range is zero ;-)

Here is what I'd like EPA / Manufacturer to publish. 9 numbers in all.

- City/Highway range (like they do now, but at 100% charge only)
- City/Highway Summer range (with A/C on, 100 F outside, 70 F inside)
- City/Highway Winter range (withe heater on, 32 F outside, 70 F inside)

They need to revise their highway cycle. Make it average about 65 or 70 mph.
 
evnow said:
adric22 said:
Here's a chart like I was thinking.. I could fill this chart in and revise it more if people like it. The Leaf is an example where I could show minimum guaranteed range, EPA range, and maximum range.
There really isn't a minimum gauranteed range. If you switch on the heater and let it sit, the range is zero ;-)

Here is what I'd like EPA / Manufacturer to publish. 9 numbers in all.

- City/Highway range (like they do now, but at 100% charge only)
- City/Highway Summer range (with A/C on, 100 F outside, 70 F inside)
- City/Highway Winter range (withe heater on, 32 F outside, 70 F inside)

They need to revise their highway cycle. Make it average about 65 or 70 mph.

Mostly agreed, but for winter range, let's be real and make the temperature 0F ;)
 
GetOffYourGas said:
evnow said:
adric22 said:
Here's a chart like I was thinking.. I could fill this chart in and revise it more if people like it. The Leaf is an example where I could show minimum guaranteed range, EPA range, and maximum range.
There really isn't a minimum gauranteed range. If you switch on the heater and let it sit, the range is zero ;-)

Here is what I'd like EPA / Manufacturer to publish. 9 numbers in all.

- City/Highway range (like they do now, but at 100% charge only)
- City/Highway Summer range (with A/C on, 100 F outside, 70 F inside)
- City/Highway Winter range (withe heater on, 32 F outside, 70 F inside)

They need to revise their highway cycle. Make it average about 65 or 70 mph.

Mostly agreed, but for winter range, let's be real and make the temperature 0F ;)
Yeah, 32 deg. should be spring/fall range (winter/rainy season for those of us who live in Mediterranean climates). And maybe we shouldn't stop at 0 deg. for winter. Let's rate the cars at their minimum operating temp or -22 Deg. F. (-30C), whichever is higher, and say what the temp is.
 
If you need more range you need to buy a Tesla. They even have a new battery coming in the 2015 S that has 40% more range and a 50% longer life.

I have a 2013 LEAF and am waiting for the new Tesla 3rd Gen to come out on 2015-16 time frame. It maybe a long wait but the LEAF meets more than double our needs most days for work commuting. The 2013 is really better with more range and a battery that seems to be better in the heat. The Air Cond Heater is also a Heat Pump and twice as efficient as other EVs. I also leased a 2013 Focus so we can compare and so far they are very similar in range.

But my favorite is my ELF from Organic Transit in NC. http://www.OrganicTransit.com" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false; http://www.ELFowners.webs.com" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;
It's more fun per miles and can go 1,800 MPGe on peddle and solar! :lol: :lol: :lol:
 
I have seen no verifiable source for such a claim... Citations please.

jstack6 said:
If you need more range you need to buy a Tesla. They even have a new battery coming in the 2015 S that has 40% more range and a 50% longer life.
 
TomT said:
I have seen no verifiable source for such a claim... Citations please.

jstack6 said:
If you need more range you need to buy a Tesla. They even have a new battery coming in the 2015 S that has 40% more range and a 50% longer life.

I second that - where is this wildly unsubstantiated claim coming from?
 
Back
Top