mitch672
Well-known member
http://www.greencarreports.com/news/1076241_which-will-sell-more-volt-leaf-or-plug-in-prius" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;
Flame on
Flame on
California is already the country’s strongest market for alternative-powertrain cars, including the Prius. Sam Butto, a Toyota spokesman, said that California sales accounted for one out of every four in the United States.
“When those cars were eligible for California’s H.O.V. lanes, we sold out our allotment in no time,” Mr. Butto said. “We expect that the ability to use the H.O.V. lanes will be one of the most popular reasons people will buy the Prius Plug-In Hybrid. We may sell one in three or one in four of our plug-in hybrids in California.”
According to Scott Doggett, an editor at Edmunds’ AutoObserver.com, “When the H.O.V. access for California hybrids went away, it left thousands of drivers very frustrated, because their commute times had doubled or tripled. The ability to use H.O.V. lanes is a very good marketing tool for Toyota.”
Well, there's also the CNG Civic (http://automobiles.honda.com/civic-natural-gas/" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;, formerly the Civic GX). I've been seeing more and more those recently.Herm said:In California the PIP is the lowest cost unlimited range solution to getting the HOV lane, at $28k.. vs a Volt at $31k. I suspect some PIP owners will never bother to plug it in. These people just want the sticker. Plus a Prius has proven high resale value and reliability.
Sadly, I'll have to agree with you. And why should they? We're talking about folks who probably don't have solar panels or TOU electric rates. Many of them are in high electric tiers in California, paying $0.30/kWh or more on the margin. Not being EV fanatics, they might get 3 m/kWh wall to wheels, so electricity could cost them 10 cents a mile or more. Even at the current $4.50/gal gas price in California, if they manage 50 MPG they will be paying only 9 cents a mile for gasoline.cwerdna said:I agree, I bet a certain % of PiP owners will never plug in.
It'll be the PiP selling the most I'm sure, but the 15k limit will make it close. The Chevy has already sold 5,300 so it's 1/3 of the way there but I still think the PiP will outsell.cwerdna said:PiP > Volt > Leaf or possibly
Volt > PiP > Leaf
+1 because more of the general public will want the comfort of a backup engine and/or do not desire to support a second ICE car. The car that can by itself meet all one's anticipated driving needs will have the advantage for some time.cwerdna said:PiP > Volt > Leaf
I'm well aware of these plug-ins, but they're tokens too. Granted they have longer range than the 6-11 PiP, but not much longer. And, they aren't true EV if you push the peddle to much, or go to fast, just like the PiP.mitch672 said:Yes, but you do need to remember, a BEV won't work for everyone, for example, my daily commute is only 30 miles, sounds like a no-brainer, the issue is, i'm single and don't want to own 2 cars (with 2 insurance payments and associated costs), I do have 100+ mile highway days multiple days per month.. So some of us have to compromise to only owning 1 vehicle, and right now the choices are PiP or Volt, soon Ford will have another choice as well, the Ford Energi Hybrid (and they are also comming out with a plug in hybrid as well)
Also, if your 1 way commute is short and has stop & go traffic, and you can plug in at work, you can actually get most of your commuting on EV, even with a PiP, i'm at %63 EV for the last 2 weeks, 450+ miles, estimated gas usage just 3 gallons.. Will have better details when filled up next Saturday.
Ford C-Max hybrid: http://www.greencarreports.com/news/1076274_2013-ford-c-max-hybrid-available-to-order-now-from-25995" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;
Ford C-Max Energi plug in hybrid minivan: http://www.greencarreports.com/news/1071702_ford-c-max-energi-plug-in-hybrid-minivan-video" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;
It seems that you're stretching the truth on the Volt's CS mileage. It was either you or someone else who did that before here on MNL. What speeds are you talking about?DANandNAN said:GM set the bar, 40+ miles in pure EV then a range extending generator that's getting ~45MPG.
The 1.4-liter four-cylinder gas engine starts and stops smoothly but runs on premium fuel. With it running, the Volt returned a very good 32 mpg overall and 41 mpg on the highway...
I'm not stretching anything. The government stats are very low and CR is generally wrong. We get 45MPG in CS mode. There was one time when we needed it for .2 miles and the generator reved up and created a charge that we never used before shutting off and recharging - that charge is lost and the MPG was really low, somewhere around 34MPG. But, on our longer trips (more than .2 miles ) we get 45MPG. City is a bit less, but yes, that's our average. And, we drive it like our ICE cars, using AC on ECO mode on almost every drive.cwerdna said:It seems that you're stretching the truth on the Volt's CS mileage. It was either you or someone else who did that before here on MNL. What speeds are you talking about?DANandNAN said:GM set the bar, 40+ miles in pure EV then a range extending generator that's getting ~45MPG.
Per http://www.fueleconomy.gov/feg/Find.do?action=sbs&id=31618" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;, EPA rating on the Volt in CS mode in 35 city/40 highway, 37 mpg combined.
In CR's testing (their highway almost always exceeds EPA highway #), they got 23 city/41 highway (see http://news.consumerreports.org/cars/2011/10/update-chevrolet-volt-sees-fuel-economy-increase.html" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false. From http://www.consumerreports.org/cro/chevrolet/volt/road-test.htm" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false; (you'll need a subscription):
The 1.4-liter four-cylinder gas engine starts and stops smoothly but runs on premium fuel. With it running, the Volt returned a very good 32 mpg overall and 41 mpg on the highway...
By the way, did you invent this "RL"BEV term just to annoy folks? It's a BEV, period.DANandNAN said:... And, when you need a longer range there's the Volt's on-board generator or a rental vehicle for the RLBEV so folks that think a RLBEV or EREV wouldn't work for them do have options.
cwerdna,scottf200 said:NOTE: Before today my last 1300 miles used 0.6 gal of gas.
My data from a trip I took today (Sat 6May2012).
2/3rds driving 65 MPH in cruise control mainly. 1/3rd driving 35-50 MPH. Temps in mid-60F.
68.4 TotMiles = 40.8 EV miles and 27.6 gas miles.
49.2 MPG gas = 27.6 gas miles using 0.56 gal of gas -- shows the Volt can get pretty GOOD gas engine/generator miles.
120 MPGused = 68.4 TotMiles using 0.56 gal of gas
73 MPGe** = 68.4 TotMiles using 0.56 gal of gas and 12.9 kWh electricity (10.4 kWh + charging overhead)
** MPGe calculated using spreadsheet via Progressive Automotive X PRIZE: Calculating MPGe
Sorry if you find the initials annoying. Try not to let that bother you. I know we're buying a RLBEV and I'm ok with itdavewill said:By the way, did you invent this "RL"BEV term just to annoy folks? It's a BEV, period.DANandNAN said:... And, when you need a longer range there's the Volt's on-board generator or a rental vehicle for the RLBEV so folks that think a RLBEV or EREV wouldn't work for them do have options.
Thank you, that answers the question. (Yes, you did)DANandNAN said:Sorry if you find the initials annoying. Try not to let that bother you. I know we're buying a RLBEV and I'm ok with itdavewill said:By the way, did you invent this "RL"BEV term just to annoy folks? It's a BEV, period.
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