Update on Nissan LEAF Battery Replacement

[JPVLeaf]

Did you guys see the battery replacement video. This guy claims that they are now putting in the 2015 Lizard battery as replacements. At least thats what he says they put in his car.
http://transportevolved.com/2014/08/07/nissan-leaf-battery-warranty-repair-whats-involved/" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

Thanks for the link. Encouraging info.
Also, great timing as I lost my 4th bar just last week [52,6k mi., 38 mos., Ahr=43.56, Gids=183-185]. Called Nissan customer service to get my case no. She confirmed I 'qualify'. (Not sure exactly what she was checking. Perhaps some 'opt out' list?) She also confirmed that current replacements will be made with 2015 'hot lizard' battery packs. Upon ordering, shipping should take 2-7 days.

We'll likely go with our nearest dealer, which is in the process of doing their 2nd replacement. Mine would be the 3rd. So, no guinea pig Leaf here. Of the two other nearby dealers we checked, one hasn't done any. The other has done one.

We'll see how this goes. Looking forward to the upgrade.

 

[occ]

Thanks for the link. Encouraging info.
Also, great timing as I lost my 4th bar just last week [52,6k mi., 38 mos., Ahr=43.56, Gids=183-185]. Called Nissan customer service to get my case no. She confirmed I 'qualify'. (Not sure exactly what she was checking. Perhaps some 'opt out' list?) She also confirmed that current replacements will be made with 2015 'hot lizard' battery packs. Upon ordering, shipping should take 2-7 days.

We'll likely go with our nearest dealer, which is in the process of doing their 2nd replacement. Mine would be the 3rd. So, no guinea pig Leaf here. Of the two other nearby dealers we checked, one hasn't done any. The other has done one.

We'll see how this goes. Looking forward to the upgrade.

JPV, I see you're in Orange County. Which dealer will you be taking your LEAF to? I'm currently only 2 bars down, but my current stats is [26,600 mi, 38 mos., Ahr=48.87, Gids=192-205 100% chrg, health=54.04%]. I think I'm about to lose my third bar. So I'm prob going to hit the 4th bar next summer.

Looks like ours are similar in climate area and calendar time, but the extra miles you put on caused more loss. Let us know how it goes with the dealer you'll be choosing.

 

[dsh]

 

[TimLee]

Did you guys see the battery replacement video. This guy claims that they are now putting in the 2015 Lizard battery as replacements. At least thats what he says they put in his car.
http://transportevolved.com/2014/08/07/nissan-leaf-battery-warranty-repair-whats-involved/" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

Skeptical of the Jonathan Stewart YouTube report.
Label on box has what is likely manufacture date of September 25, 2013.
Unlikely it is heat resistant chemistry "lizard" battery unless it was an early prototype production for testing.

He also makes several incorrect statements:

The battery change is a chemistry change. Does nothing to improve cooling.

Talks several times about Nissan possibly just changing a few cells. They were never going to do that.
Might have reused a complete pack they got when someone bought a new battery before losing four capacity bars, or might have put together new packs from cells out of old packs, but never were going to just change a few cells.

Even though Nissan calls the capacity warranty replacement 70% they have acknowledge it is 66.25%. Don't round it off. Be accurate.

 

[JPWhite]

In 2013 they changed battery pack design. 2011-2012 Japanese made vehicles are getting their new 'Lizard' Battery Modules assembled in Japan and shipped to the US and then reinstalled in the current battery case.

Not sure why they would choose that route especially since there is now available a retrofit kit for the new 2013+ battery packs to fit into 2011/12 vehicles. Why not manufacturer the lizard pack here in the US and use the retrofit kit? The cost of shipping from Japan and the extra labor to mess with modules must outweigh the cost of the retro kit.

 

[JPWhite]

Did you guys see the battery replacement video. This guy claims that they are now putting in the 2015 Lizard battery as replacements. At least thats what he says they put in his car.
http://transportevolved.com/2014/08/07/nissan-leaf-battery-warranty-repair-whats-involved/" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

Skeptical of the Jonathan Stewart YouTube report.
Label on box has what is likely manufacture date of September 25, 2013.
Unlikely it is heat resistant chemistry "lizard" battery unless it was an early prototype production for testing.

He also makes several incorrect statements:

The battery change is a chemistry change. Does nothing to improve cooling.

Talks several times about Nissan possibly just changing a few cells. They were never going to do that.
Might have reused a complete pack they got when someone bought a new battery before losing four capacity bars, or might have put together new packs from cells out of old packs, but never were going to just change a few cells.

Even though Nissan calls the capacity warrant replacement 70% they have acknowledge it is 66.25%. Don't round it off. Be accurate.

I took the Youtube report for what it is, a log of the owners experience in getting a battery swapped under warranty. No need to be skeptical, it isn't meant to be a scientific report.

The new modules and case are lighter and does include enhancements for better ventilation of the individual modules, we can speculate so as to avoid hotspots. I agree cooling maybe overstating it, but several I've spoken to at Nissan think the pack cools as you drive - I pointed out to them that any such cooling first thing in the morning is overwhelmed by heat caused by discharge once you've driven 20+ miles, LeafSpy is testament to that.

Nissan did talk/promote originally about how individual modules can be swapped, and there is record of that happening in cases when the car 'phoned home' with faults. It was also part of their strategy of avoiding releasing a price for a complete pack, they priced individual modules only, claiming that's all that would need replacing, not an entire pack. Much has changed since then and now we know better.

As for the owner rounding off to 70%, I think that isn't unreasonable for an verbal report. Had he verbally quoted 66.25% he would have sounded like commander data.

 

[JPVLeaf]

I'll be visiting the dealer today. I would expect the new hot lizard batteries would have a new part no. Despite the Nissan Cust Service folks, more than once now, assuring me that all newly shipped (from here on out) replacement batteries will be the new 'hot lizard' batteries, I'll ask the dealer to tell me what that new part number should be. Otherwise, If they can't, I'm going to wait.

The one in J.S.'s video appeared to be '295B0 3NA7A". We'll see if that's the new one or not.

 

[JPWhite]

I'll be visiting the dealer today. I would expect the new hot lizard batteries would have a new part no. Despite the Nissan Cust Service folks, more than once now, assuring me that all newly shipped (from here on out) replacement batteries will be the new 'hot lizard' batteries, I'll ask the dealer to tell me what that new part number should be. Otherwise, If they can't, I'm going to wait.

The one in J.S.'s video appeared to be '295B0 3NA7A". We'll see if that's the new one or not.

A search for that part number on Google doesn't come up with much, it does match a part # used in 2013 for a battery swap back then. If what looks like a date on the package in the video is in YY/MM/DD format then its a 2013 part as Tim noted above. The warranty doesn't require the latest pack to be used, but is is misleading if the customer service guys are promising its the latest 2015 pack. Either they are mis-informing customers or are mis-informed themselves.

 

[DaveEV]

If what looks like a date on the package in the video is in YY/MM/DD format then its a 2013 part as Tim noted above. The warranty doesn't require the latest pack to be used, but is is misleading if the customer service guys are promising its the latest 2015 pack. Either they are mis-informing customers or are mis-informed themselves.

Also, the battery clearly says "Made in Japan" at 5:07 in the video. Have to imagine that they would prefer to ship packs from Tennessee rather than Japan.

I also didn't see anything that looked like an adapter kit - it just looked like standard plugs to me. Could be wrong! Not easy to get a clear view of the pics in the video.

 

[JPWhite]

If what looks like a date on the package in the video is in YY/MM/DD format then its a 2013 part as Tim noted above. The warranty doesn't require the latest pack to be used, but is is misleading if the customer service guys are promising its the latest 2015 pack. Either they are mis-informing customers or are mis-informed themselves.

Also, the battery clearly says "Made in Japan" at 5:07 in the video. Have to imagine that they would prefer to ship packs from Tennessee rather than Japan.

I also didn't see anything that looked like an adapter kit - it just looked like standard plugs to me. Could be wrong! Not easy to get a clear view of the pics in the video.

I'd think locally sourced batteries would make more sense financially and logistically as well. However they may be trying to run down excess inventory of older packs in Japan? There maybe little excess stock at Smyrna since the car is selling so well in the US.

 

[Pipcecil]

Aww it makes me kindof sad that I didn't get a new lizard battery and was probably one of the last replacements to get a regular one. I wish I could have just waited, but my mileage was to close to 60k to wait.

But lucky to all you that get a (hopefully) better heat resistant battery. Hopefully Nissan will keep good on its word with hot battery vouchers?

 

[JPVLeaf]

JPV, I see you're in Orange County. Which dealer will you be taking your LEAF to? I'm currently only 2 bars down, but my current stats is [26,600 mi, 38 mos., Ahr=48.87, Gids=192-205 100% chrg, health=54.04%]. I think I'm about to lose my third bar. So I'm prob going to hit the 4th bar next summer.

Looks like ours are similar in climate area and calendar time, but the extra miles you put on caused more loss. Let us know how it goes with the dealer you'll be choosing.

Yup, I think we're just a couple of miles apart. In addition to mine having 2x miles over yours, my Leaf spends a bit of time sitting in the inland heat.

It was Tustin that will have done the two replacements. The other dealers I called were Connell and Stadium.

 

[DaveinOlyWA]

i think its only a matter of time before the batteries are made in the US and guessing that the wait will be VERY short

 

[dgpcolorado]

The new modules and case are lighter and does include enhancements for better ventilation of the individual modules, we can speculate so as to avoid hotspots. I agree cooling maybe overstating it, but several I've spoken to at Nissan think the pack cools as you drive - I pointed out to them that any such cooling first thing in the morning is overwhelmed by heat caused by discharge once you've driven 20+ miles, LeafSpy is testament to that...

Depends on what the air temperature is. When the OAT is 20ºF or more lower than the battery temperature I see the battery temp drop, even while driving at 60 mph. I'm not the only one to report the battery temperature dropping while driving when the air temperature is low.

So, yes, the battery does cool when driving at highway speeds if the OAT is significantly lower than the battery temp.

 

[TimLee]

i think its only a matter of time before the batteries are made in the US and guessing that the wait will be VERY short

I think you are correct that it won't be too long before the warranty replacements will probably be 2015 packs manufactured in Smyrna and installed in 2011 / 2012 with the adapter kit.

Possible that the kits aren't available yet? The plan to sell battery replacements and that there will be a kit to use 2015 batteries on 2011 / 2012 vehicles is fairly recent news. Would be nice if someone that works in Nissan service department would check the kit availability and its part #.

Also possible that the battery output at Smyrna is just keeping up with production demand for the 2015.

Or may be that some limited Japan production of heat resistant chemistry old style battery modules needs to be used, and where better to use them than warranty replacements in hot locations in US that have failed the battery in right at three years?

I agree that the date shown on Jonathan's battery could be a limited test run of heat resistant chemistry old style battery modules. The info about the heat resistant battery came out of the August 2013 Phoenix dinner with Nissan. It may have been breaking news, and the new chemistry may not have been in production yet. Production of the old style cells is probably a low volume operation at best, and the Japan facility may have been the most cost effective location to build the prototypes for accelerated aging field testing. And the old style cells with a bit less cooling potential in 2011 / 2012 LEAFs would probably have been a more rigorous test. All just speculation, but it does seem very possible.

 

[JPWhite]

I'm not the only one to report the battery temperature dropping while driving when the air temperature is low.

Agreed I see it every morning at interstate speeds, but after 20 miles of driving it'll trend back upwards.

 

[myleaf]

Aww it makes me kindof sad that I didn't get a new lizard battery and was probably one of the last replacements to get a regular one. I wish I could have just waited, but my mileage was to close to 60k to wait.

But lucky to all you that get a (hopefully) better heat resistant battery. Hopefully Nissan will keep good on its word with hot battery vouchers?

I hope Nisssan offers hot batteries for the new warranty replacements. I also hope we get the hot battery vouchers. I lost my bar a few weeks before the battery announcement. I asked the Nissan customer agent if I would be getting the "hot battery". He told me that I will be getting the original battery. I asked him whether I should wait for the hot battery. I told him that Chelsea Sexton mentioned that a positive announcement was coming soon. He mentioned he was not aware of when the hot battery would be released and questioned the source of the information. He recommended that I not waiting and that I replace the battery - which I did. I asked him to document in my case the offer of the "hot battery voucher" which I understand was mentioned at the last Phx meeting with Andy Palmer.

 

[DaveinOlyWA]

It actually takes several months to build a battery. The processes are similar to how a microprocessor is built and does require curing time, dispersion time and other processes that is batch processed so a delay is inevitable

 

[dsh]

 

[DaveEV]

Depends on what the air temperature is. When the OAT is 20ºF or more lower than the battery temperature I see the battery temp drop, even while driving at 60 mph. I'm not the only one to report the battery temperature dropping while driving when the air temperature is low.

So, yes, the battery does cool when driving at highway speeds if the OAT is significantly lower than the battery temp.

One thing I've noticed recently is that it actually depends on the spread of temps in the pack.

Using LeafDD, I find that the temp of the first two sensors, especially the first can be significantly higher than the rest, especially right after charging - and especially quick charging. Why? I'm not sure. Highest part of the pack since the #1 sensor appears to be on top of the rear row of modules? It's Offical: Only three temp sensors in pack of a 2013 Leaf

As an example, here's some sample readings from a recent trip - temp in C:

29.6 28.9 29.1 28.7 - 3PM - Ambient temp ~90F (32C). Just finished a 80-100% charge 45 min earlier. Had charged from 30%-80% which finished mid morning. Car was outside where ambient dropped to mid 60Fs (18C) which is why the pack is slightly cooler than ambient.
31.9 31.2 31.3 31.2 - 4 PM - Ambient temp ~90F. (though car thermometer read mid 90F IIRC) Drove 50 miles on the freeway in a mix of traffic and speeds in low 60 mph). SOC 41%.
37.9 37.1 36.0 35.9 - 5 PM - Ambient temp ~85F. Had QCd to ~80% at 4pm and drove another 20 miles and QCd again back to 80%.
39.0 37.8 36.1 35.0 - 6 PM - Ambient temp ~77F. Drove 40 miles on the freeway at mostly 65 mph. SOC 30%.

So I forgot to get the temps after the 4PM QC, but you can see how a QC really pumps up the temp. But then again - didn't really see much of a change in temp between 5-6pm on the hottest sensor despite it being quite a bit warmer than ambient - I suspect because the BMS was still working hard to balance the pack.