Update on Nissan LEAF Battery Replacement

[Vincerama]

I'm almost hoping my battery will drop to eight bars soon to get the new battery.

I bought a 2011 used, and the battery is at 9 bars at a mileage of just 28,000 miles. I bought it based on past gas car buying knowledge ... good condition (well, a dented fender) and reasonable miles for 3 years. I didn't really know about the battery capacity loss, which I do now.

Dropping 3 bars in 3 years and less than 30k miles seems unreasonable.

Nav system shows car was in Sacramento, so definitely heat related and "it's leased, so I don't care" attitude probably killed it too.

 

[Valdemar]

I ran into someone who claimed he was refused a warranty battery replacement at 8 bars on the Leaf he bought used because of his "usage patterns". I don't know what this means or it was bad dealerships not knowing what they were talking about, but the guy was pretty upset as he was only getting 50 miles of range out of the car and no way out after trying a couple of different dealers.

 

[Stoaty]

I ran into someone who claimed he was refused a warranty battery replacement at 8 bars on the Leaf he bought used because of his "usage patterns".

I wasn't aware that the battery warranty was contingent on a particular "usage pattern". Has anyone read through the legalese to see if this is mentioned somewhere?

 

[Valdemar]

I ran into someone who claimed he was refused a warranty battery replacement at 8 bars on the Leaf he bought used because of his "usage patterns".

I wasn't aware that the battery warranty was contingent on a particular "usage pattern". Has anyone read through the legalese to see if this is mentioned somewhere?

Me too. I advised him to call the 1800NOGASEV friendly guys and try to sort things out, but I don't know the end of the story. Could it be that the car didn't have the annual battery reports done in time? Or B0133?

 

[JPWhite]

Could it be that the car didn't have the annual battery reports done in time? Or B0133?

While Nissan may reserve the right to refuse warranty consideration under certain conditions, I think it short sighted if they were to do so. I agree with your advice to call the 1-800 number to get an official position.

I understand Nissan would like to collect data from the LEAF's in service every year, but if the previous owner didn't keep the inspections up to date are they really going to deny warranty to a second hand buyer?

My guess is he got bad advice from the dealer.

 

[Weatherman]

There ought to be a new thread...

"Dealer excuses for not replacing a LEAF battery"

1) "usage pattern"
2) capacity gauge reset to 12 bars, "everything is normal"
3) you didn't get your annual battery check done
...

 

[JPWhite]

There ought to be a new thread...

"Dealer excuses for not replacing a LEAF battery"

1) "usage pattern"
2) capacity gauge reset to 12 bars, "everything is normal"
3) you didn't get your annual battery check done
...

4) We don't believe in EV's and wish you luck finding a new battery for free.

 

[Valdemar]

My guess is he got bad advice from the dealer.

I thought so too, but he said he tried more than one dealer which made me think there could be something substantial they had against his case.

 

[davewill]

Me too. I advised him to call the 1800NOGASEV friendly guys and try to sort things out, but I don't know the end of the story. Could it be that the car didn't have the annual battery reports done in time? Or B0133?

If they're basing it on the battery reports, I'd start working up the ladder. In order to refuse warranty on the basis of missed maintenance they'd have to show that the missed maintenance CAUSED the failure. Since the battery check doesn't do any actual "maintenance" it would be hard for it to cause a failure.

If it's B0133, since he bought it used, he may not be the guy who opted out of the suit, in which case he should also start working up the ladder. (He should do so even if he WAS the guy who opted out).

Also, it he bought it used from a Nissan dealer and it already had this problem and they didn't disclose it...that might bear some fruit.

In any case, they need to give him actual details on why they are refusing warranty service. I can imagine scenarios that might look like excessive topping off that perhaps aren't, really. Besides, it's hard to fight if you don't know what you're fighting.

 

[nosuchthing]

I'd think you would have to do something to the car that voids the warranty. And that would not include driving style.

And secondly, I don't think it's the dealer but it's Nissan who calls all the warranty shots...

 

[brettcgb]

I ran into someone who claimed he was refused a warranty battery replacement at 8 bars on the Leaf he bought used because of his "usage patterns". I don't know what this means or it was bad dealerships not knowing what they were talking about, but the guy was pretty upset as he was only getting 50 miles of range out of the car and no way out after trying a couple of different dealers.

The only "usage pattern" I can think of is driving the car significantly more than 18k miles/year. And that's a stretch.

 

[brettcgb]

Sorted by AHr (edited 10/9/2014)

SOH    Hx      AHr     Mi     L1/2   QC
 66   45.43    43.63                       TomT (June 13, 2014 still at 3 bars)
 66   59.71    43.56   52600   44xx   35   jpvleaf (OC, CA), 4th bar lost, 8/7/14
     45.12    43.42                       myleaf (June 11, 2014 Chandler, AZ)
 66   44.95    43.32   58078               Pipcecil (June 21, 2014 Midlothian, TX)
 65   58.45    42.75   39801   1919   17   sksingh (July 30, 2014 La Mirada, CA)
 64   43.60    42.48                       TickTock (Queen Creek, Arizona) - still at 3 bars
 63   42.39    41.77   34046   2632   94   Brett_cgb (Gilbert, AZ), 4th bar lost 10/5/2014

100  104.50    66.14  54400   45xx   36   jpvleaf, new batt +8 days, 9/20/14
100  101.43    65.92                      Pipcecil (Midlothian, TX) new Batt

I'm not sure I'm happy about adding myself to this list now - I was expecting that to happen 4-6 weeks ago. But there is is. I'm taking the car into the shop tomorrow morning.

I've been capturing LeafSpy data since January. I can draw a couple conclusions:

HX and AHr always decline, but they decline faster if you're nice to your car (ie hypermiling). For about the last three weeks, I've been doing a lot more freeway driving that I used to, and about 75 rather than 65.There was a strong leveling in Hx and AHr when I started doing that.

In May, I was doing a lot of freeway driving (at 65) and DCFC. A third of my lifetime 96 DCFC occurred during 6 weeks in May/June, evenly split between 20kW and 50kW chargers. I believe the DCFC also caused Hx and AHr to level out.

AHr, SOH and Hx trends had sharp downward inflections about 3kMiles before the forth bar was lost. Even GIDs at 100% charge had a downward inflection.

 

[nerys]

"The only "usage pattern" I can think of is driving the car significantly more than 18k miles/year. And that's a stretch."

that scares me a bit as I fully intend to put at least 30k a year on my leaf!

 

[Valdemar]

Are in a hot climate? If not then there is nothing to worry about, you'll be out of capacity warranty long time before you drop 4 bars.

 

[Pipcecil]

Sorted by AHr (edited 10/9/2014)

SOH    Hx      AHr     Mi     L1/2   QC
 66   45.43    43.63                       TomT (June 13, 2014 still at 3 bars)
 66   59.71    43.56   52600   44xx   35   jpvleaf (OC, CA), 4th bar lost, 8/7/14
     45.12    43.42                       myleaf (June 11, 2014 Chandler, AZ)
 66   44.95    43.32   58078               Pipcecil (June 21, 2014 Midlothian, TX)
 65   58.45    42.75   39801   1919   17   sksingh (July 30, 2014 La Mirada, CA)
 64   43.60    42.48                       TickTock (Queen Creek, Arizona) - still at 3 bars
 63   42.39    41.77   34046   2632   94   Brett_cgb (Gilbert, AZ), 4th bar lost 10/5/2014

100  104.50    66.14  54400   45xx   36   jpvleaf, new batt +8 days, 9/20/14
100  101.43    65.92                      Pipcecil (Midlothian, TX) new Batt

Noticed some information was missing on my data, so I wanted to supply the rest to make sure you have hte most complete data:

On the old battery - L1/L2: 3535, QC: 109
New battery (at max AHr - it took 13 days to get there from car delivery. Delivery July 2, 2014, max AHr on July 15, 2014) - L1/L2: 3580, QC: 110, miles: 58,950

 

[Pipcecil]

And secondly, I don't think it's the dealer but it's Nissan who calls all the warranty shots...

You are more right than you know. Having a major issue with the car (OBC failure) ANY significant repairs (i.e. not tires, windshield wipers, etc.) go through Nissan Corporate (warranty or not). In fact one of the problems when I had OBC failure and the dealership couldn't find any problems, Nissan corporate refused to let them even look at the car again. Even when we had evidence their testing wasn't duplicating the error and we could duplicate it ourselves (its how the test was done - they wouldn't ever be able to duplicate it the way they did it), the dealership couldn't do anything, it was all Nissan Corporate. Even the dealership was honest - they would help if they could but if nissan doesn't authorize it, they don't get paid, and any repairs or work is always money for them, so repairing my car versus doing nothing would always make them more money - as long as nissan corporate wasn't blocking them.

So based on that experience, its 100% nissan corporate. Plus the owner is now in the system, so no matter whom he goes to hey will pull is info and there will be a block on the battery replacement. The best he can do is try the nogas number and see if you can't find out why he is blocked and get it resolved.

 

[mwalsh]

^ No. The best you can do is drag them into court again.

It makes me wonder if they are finding alternate excuses to the opt-out, so they can skirt the issue.

 

[Stanton]

I've been capturing LeafSpy data since January. I can draw a couple conclusions:

HX and AHr always decline, but they decline faster if you're nice to your car (ie hypermiling). For about the last three weeks, I've been doing a lot more freeway driving that I used to, and about 75 rather than 65.There was a strong leveling in Hx and AHr when I started doing that.

This is counter-intuitive to me; can you elaborate? I would think driving the car "harder" would accelerate the Hx/AHr decline??

 

[Valdemar]

^ No. The best you can do is drag them into court again.

Can one bring their case against Nissan to a small court?

 

[mwalsh]

^ No. The best you can do is drag them into court again.

Can one bring their case against Nissan to a small court?

Definitely.

As an aside, I already know what the alternate excuse will be on my car - remember when I got my OBC replaced, after the tech working a software update bricked it, and I was convinced my car wasn't charging to capacity on the replacement? You'll also remember that I was bump charging when the battery was already "full" to see if it would bring it back to the charge levels I was getting with the old controller.

Well I got a star off on the next battery report for charging while already at a high state of charge. That, my friends, will be the excuse on my car. What do you bet me?